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FrankD5 (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
One of our Board members is also the major rental agency for 150+ units in our community. I want to know if anyone out there finds this a conflict of interest as this member votes to protect his interests in rental income.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
He should abstain on any vote that has to do with rentals.

P.S. HOW is it that he even could run for the board? The nomination committee did not do its job.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Just because a conflict of interest exists does not necessarily mean that someone is acting in an improper manner.

Do you have examples of how the BOD in question votes in a way that protects his rental income IN A MANNER THAT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE?

Do you have a "Board member conflict of interest policy?" What do your founding documents say about potential conflicts of interest in regards to BOD members?
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Just because a conflict of interest exists does not necessarily mean that someone is acting in an improper manner.

Do you have examples of how the BOD in question votes in a way that protects his rental income IN A MANNER THAT IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE?

Do you have a "Board member conflict of interest policy?" What do your founding documents say about potential conflicts of interest in regards to BOD members?
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Usually most bylaws have specify language that address situations where board members do not abstain from voting whenever they have a pecuniary interest.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
just curious, if i were an owner, and voting to protect my investment in real estate and property values, or I was a homeowner, and renting my home, and voted to protect my interest in rentals of homes, is that conflict of interest?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Brian,

IMO, a homeowner and a board member would have a different set of standards to follow. The board member is casting a vote that affects every member of the assn, whereas a member is casting a vote which only affects himself.

In this case, I would not see a conflict of interest occuring unless the board were voting on a proposal to limit rentals. The board member who is a property mgr of rentals in the community would have a conflict of interest because if the # of rentals is limited it may reduce his income. He should state his conflict of interest and not vote on the issue unless the board voted to disregard the conflict of interest. Conflict of interest is most likely not addressed in the assn's community documents; however the State's nonprofit corp statutes probably do address it.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
That was my thought in the beginning.

I think, BrianB, that technically speaking, it is. I'm under the impression, and this is just my opinion, that members of the BOD are there to protect the asset (the association and the association's good name). If you were on the BOD specifically to protect YOUR investment (and to he** with everyone else's), then it is a conflict of interest.

However, as I stated above, a conflict of interest can exist apart from any impropriety. I guess it depends on what you do with your conflict of interest.
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 08/17/2009 2:18 PM
Usually most bylaws have specify language that address situations where board members do not abstain from voting whenever they have a pecuniary interest.

I have not seen that (in my small experience). Our Bylaws and Declarations have nothing like that. Perhaps that is often something that a BoD has to work out on its own.

I don't know the details, but it sounds like the rental owner has a clear conflict of interest on any matters related to rental properties at the HOA. I think that is usually handled by recusation or exclusion from discussions and votes (or just votes) on such issues.

Our HOA has conflict of interest usually involving a Director being associated with, friends with, or doing some business with another homeowner involved in a dispute with the BoD.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
I think it would depend on the age of the documents, and probably other things (expertise of the developer when writing from boilerplate/template).

I'm in Colorado, and regardless of founding documents, most associations (here) need to comply with C(Colorado)CIOA, which does require associations to have a policy/procedure in place for dealing with conflicts of interest by board members.

State who don't follow the Uniform Common Interest Ownership Act (UCIOA) ((or those states that don't have their own HOA laws)) may have something in Non-Profit Corp statutes.

My 25 year old documents do not have any information/language for dealing with conflict of interest. But, we are writing a policy/procedure now.

Other members rarely voice conflicts...we're really small. I'm the only one who voices conflicts, because I'm the one who deals with the contractors/vendors/owners on the most regular basis. I voice potential conflicts, even if they're teeny tiny (better to be safe than sorry). Other members on our BOD take what I say, and then make a decision about whether I should vote/recuse/leave the room.

An example of a conflict I disclose...sometimes I contract with our maintenance man for personal maintenance of my unit. I always tell the BOD when I do this, and I always offer to provide "proof" that I paid out of my pocket with no "discounting" for being the person who gets them the HOA contract. Better to avoid even the APPEARANCE of impropriety...
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
More often than not, a conflict of interest may occur when the person with the conflict stands to benefit monetarily.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Frank,

If he owns one unit he has one vote and no more.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
But he may have a unique "influence" on the vote of 150+ units.
DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
Yes, at Homeowner meetings he would have one vote for each unit that he owns, which probably means that he pretty much has total control over the outcome of any elections, including who sits on the Board. That depends on how many total units there are in the community though.

But once on the Board, at Board meetings he only has one vote, regardless of how many units he owns.

As to conflict of interest, not really. He has a vested interest in the well-being of the community, just the same as any other property owner in the community. In fact, it could even be argued that he has an even greater interest in the community well-being. He paid good money for those properties, and it would be better for him and his bottom line if the value of the properties stays high. If the neighborhood turns into a slum because of the renters, then he stands to lose more money than any individual property owner.
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DwightT on 08/18/2009 7:14 AM
As to conflict of interest, not really. He has a vested interest in the well-being of the community, just the same as any other property owner in the community. In fact, it could even be argued that he has an even greater interest in the community well-being. He paid good money for those properties, and it would be better for him and his bottom line if the value of the properties stays high. If the neighborhood turns into a slum because of the renters, then he stands to lose more money than any individual property owner.

Each homeowner has a vested interest in their own well-being and the collective well-being as it suits them. A rental owner may clearly have divergent interests from a resident owner on some issues.

However, I have a difficulty with the general problem of interest conflicts:

Why is one interest a conflict and the other not? Why should only resident owners have a voice and the rental owner be denied?

I think each issue must be considered as relating and restricted to a personal situation. For example, when the BoD considers a specific ACC violation by a particular homeowner who is a Director, then that Director must recuse self or be excluded (openly, not surreptitiously). If a category of ACC restriction is being considered (it is common, it is being added or removed from the rules, etc.), then whether a particular Director may be violating such a (proposed or actual) restriction is not grounds for recusation.

In the case of one owner of all or most of the rental units, the same should apply. It is not fair to allow resident homeowners to make the rules and deny his interests -- to view the entire category as personal rather than communal.

What do you all think?

(If one owner dominates the association through ownership, then it may be desirable to structure things to protect minority interests -- at least for the single-unit owners. Since this is corporate governance more than civil governance, such may not be legal or practical.)
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Everyone,

This is the entire section on Director Conflict of Interest from the Florida Statutes 617, Article of Inc for Not For Profit Corps, which HOAs in Fl. are ALL filed under. Pick your paragraph and interpret whether or not the multi owner is in conflict.

"617.0832 Director conflicts of interest.--

(1) No contract or other transaction between a corporation and one or more of its directors or any other corporation, firm, association, or entity in which one or more of its directors are directors or officers or are financially interested shall be either void or voidable because of such relationship or interest, because such director or directors are present at the meeting of the board of directors or a committee thereof which authorizes, approves, or ratifies such contract or transaction, or because his or her or their votes are counted for such purpose, if:

(a) The fact of such relationship or interest is disclosed or known to the board of directors or committee which authorizes, approves, or ratifies the contract or transaction by a vote or consent sufficient for the purpose without counting the votes or consents of such interested directors;

(b) The fact of such relationship or interest is disclosed or known to the members entitled to vote on such contract or transaction, if any, and they authorize, approve, or ratify it by vote or written consent; or

(c) The contract or transaction is fair and reasonable as to the corporation at the time it is authorized by the board, a committee, or the members.

(2) For purposes of paragraph (1)(a) only, a conflict-of-interest transaction is authorized, approved, or ratified if it receives the affirmative vote of a majority of the directors on the board of directors, or on the committee, who have no relationship or interest in the transaction described in subsection (1), but a transaction may not be authorized, approved, or ratified under this section by a single director. If a majority of the directors who have no relationship or interest in the transaction vote to authorize, approve, or ratify the transaction, a quorum is present for the purpose of taking action under this section. The presence of, or a vote cast by, a director having a relationship or interest in the transaction does not affect the validity of any action taken under paragraph (1)(a) if the transaction is otherwise authorized, approved, or ratified as provided in subsection (1), but such presence or vote of such a director may be counted for purposes of determining whether the transaction is approved under other sections of this chapter.

(3) For purposes of paragraph (1)(b), a conflict-of-interest transaction is authorized, approved, or ratified if it receives the vote of a majority in interest of the members entitled to vote under this subsection. A director who has a relationship or interest in the transaction described in subsection (1) may not vote to determine whether to authorize, approve, or ratify a conflict-of-interest transaction under paragraph (1)(b). However, the vote of that director is counted in determining whether the transaction is approved under other sections of this chapter. A majority in interest of the members entitled to vote on the transaction under this subsection constitutes a quorum for the purpose of taking action under this section. As used in this subsection, the term "majority in interest" refers to a majority of the voting shares or other voting units allotted to the members.

.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Note that the FL conflict of interest statute only addresses transactions between the assn and a corp, firm, assn or entity. The OP stated a board member is the owner of a major rental agency that rents 150+ of the units in his assn. Does he have a conflict of interest? According to FL statutes the answer would be no because there is no transaction taking place between him and the HOA BOD. However, IMO, there could be a conflict of interest if the BOD were to decide to limit rentals. This board member could stand to lose rental income if rentals were limited. Anytime a person, corp, assn, entity stands to gain monetarily, a conflict of interest occurs.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

I agree with Mary that voting IMHO is not considered a "transaction", therefore the Statutes do not address a "major rental agency" owner being on a Board. However, IMHO again, that owner should abstain from any voting that is involved with any rental policy .
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Mary and Donna,

I think I understand your point. There are two sides with conflicting interests; however, one side has a clear financial interest, so they must abstain.

Another question about such situations -- if a Director resuses, abstains or is excluded from voting on a matter, because of conflict of interest, should they also stay out of the discussion or participate? Should they leave the room and be excluded from emails, or should they be allowed to observe?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Michael,

There is no reason that a Board member in good standing should be excluded from being present. They may be part of the quorum? Never know.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelK11 on 08/18/2009 2:09 PM
Mary and Donna,

Another question about such situations -- if a Director recuses, abstains or is excluded from voting on a matter, because of conflict of interest, should they also stay out of the discussion or participate? Should they leave the room and be excluded from emails, or should they be allowed to observe?

From my experience, when I take myself out due to potential conflict, I leave the room completely. (We don't use email for BOD discussions). Quorum was established at the beginning of the meeting (according to my documents) and if someone leaves, the quorum does NOT change (for my association). IF (and that's a big if) I stayed in the room, I would absolutely NOT offer any discussion/advice/thoughts/comments/suggestions...

My own opinion...If I have a conflict, I *COULD* still try to assert my authority (or whatever you want to call it) and get people to vote "my" way. It's better for me to just stay out to avoid all appearances of impropriety.
DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
From what I have seen from various government meetings (city hall, agency committees, etc), as long as the conflict is made known at the start of the discussion, the person with the conflict does not need to leave or be silent during the discussion. They don't vote, but they are still free to participate in the discussion.

But these were typically open meetings where the public would have been able to participate anyway. The person in conflict essentially becomes another interested member of the public with the same ability to comment on issues as anyone else.
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Now I want to ask for comments on a situation related to my HOA.

One Director did not agree with the others about the dispute with the homeowner about his wall. He was accused of bias in that matter, for being the homeowner's friend. He stated that his "friends" could be counted on one hand, but he was an acquaintance and they were considering a potential future business venture. The BoD then decided this was a conflict and excluded him from communications and meetings on this matter.

When a homeowner's interests are at issue (ACC violation or similar), then should perceived bias or friendship of a Director with respect to that homeowner be considered a conflict of interest? Current or possible future business relationship with the homeowner, where the business in question is not directly relevant? Although this happened before the lawsuit started, what if it was a situation of a perceived associate or the actual Defendant being on the BoD?

Criteria suggested so far suggest not, but do these situations suggest other relevant criteria?

Eventually, this treatment created great stress for this Director and elevated his blood pressure, so he resigned.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelK11 on 08/18/2009 3:54 PM
Now I want to ask for comments on a situation related to my HOA.

One Director did not agree with the others about the dispute with the homeowner about his wall. He was accused of bias in that matter, for being the homeowner's friend. He stated that his "friends" could be counted on one hand, but he was an acquaintance and they were considering a potential future business venture. The BoD then decided this was a conflict and excluded him from communications and meetings on this matter.

I think a "conflict of interest" or "bias" can be found almost anywhere you look. Just because people know each other does not a bias make. I think your BOD was out of line (unless you have a policy in place to address potential conflicts of interest??).

Just asking...but does Texas have anything like this (from the Colorado Common Interest Ownership Act)... The policy requirement for conflicts of interest (1.b.ii)

38-33.3-209.5 Responsible governance policies.
(1) To promote responsible governance, associations shall:
(a) Maintain accurate and complete accounting records; and
(b) Adopt policies, procedures, and rules and regulations concerning:
(i) Collection of unpaid assessments;
(ii) Handling of conflicts of interest involving board members;
(iii) Conduct of meetings, which may refer to applicable provisions of the Nonprofit
Code or other recognized rules and principles;
(iv) Enforcement of covenants and rules, including notice and hearing procedures
and the schedule of fines;
(v) Inspection and copying of association records by unit owners;
(vi) Investment of reserve funds;
(vii) Procedures for the adoption and amendment of policies, procedures, and rules;
and
(viii) Procedures for addressing disputes arising between the association and unit
owners.
(IX) When the association has a reserve study prepared for the portions of the
community maintained, repaired, replaced, and improved by the association;
whether there is a funding plan for any work recommended by the reserve study
and, if so, the projected sources of funding for the work; and whether the reserve
study is based on a physical analysis and financial analysis. For the purposes of
this subparagraph (ix), an internally conducted reserve study shall be sufficient.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Tracie, I disagree.

The homeowner and the board member were planning on a joint business venture.

Were it my board, I would also request that the direct sit out any votes that involve that homeowner. Regarding leaving him off of communications about the homeowner, my only answer for that would be "it depends." I give people the benefit of the doubt, but there must have been something that didn't smell right with the board for all of them to agree that it would be best to leave this director out of communications regarding the homeowner against whom they have a lawsuit.

TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Without all the facts, I don't know if we would ever agree. MichaelK said that the BOD member was considering a potential future business venture. I'm not sure if it can be any more vague than that.

But, Michele, point taken. (I may not always agree, but DANG, you write some good arguments that get me thinking!) I err on the side of benefit of the doubt (Probably because my association allows it). MichaelK's situation blows my "benefit of the doubt" argument right out of the water! Through all of MichaelK's extensive posts, I am thinking more and more that his BOD operates in a way I'll never understand!
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TracieS on 08/19/2009 6:56 AM
Without all the facts, I don't know if we would ever agree. MichaelK said that the BOD member was considering a potential future business venture. I'm not sure if it can be any more vague than that.
It was indeed that vague. They were not actually doing any business or about to start anything. I don't know what the venture was, except that it had nothing to do with the HOA or real estate and they were just at the talking about it stage. That's all I know about it.
Quote:
I err on the side of benefit of the doubt (Probably because my association allows it). MichaelK's situation blows my "benefit of the doubt" argument right out of the water! Through all of MichaelK's extensive posts, I am thinking more and more that his BOD operates in a way I'll never understand!
The problem with "benefit of the doubt" in a dispute is to whom you give it. In this case, to the Directors who want him out or to the Director who is being thrown out? Same problem with the argument that "one party obviously thought something was wrong" -- doing so is making a decision about which party to believe. Do you decide that by assuming the BoD is usually right? Do you decide that by assuming the BoD is usually wrong? Root for the authority? Root for the underdog? Look at what they are doing? Assume that because you don't know anything but what one person posted, that the information must be wrong and the opposite is true?

That's the last effort I want to give to bad logic and circular reasoning. Not directed at the above quoted post.

Tracie and all,

I see the trade-offs between abandoning the principle that conflict only exists where there is a direct financial benefit to the Director or allowing an associate (not a business partner) of the protagonist to participate in representing the HOA. Between working with someone who may be "biased" in favor of the protagonist or only allowing one viewpoint on the BoD.

I've got more, but want to see what people think about each piece.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Completely understood. I use "benefit of the doubt" because I can in my association. We're not litigious, we're not filing lawsuits, we're just trying to live and get along.

I completely see your point about the drawbacks of using benefit of the doubt, ESPECIALLY in your association. I guess our association and owners just ASSUME that we're all working for the benefit of the property as a whole (because we ARE!).

Boy, sometimes I get on this message board and I'm overwhelmed with the problems my association has. Then, othertimes, I come here and I just count my blessings! This situation with MichaelK's association REALLY makes me count my blessings.
FrankD5 (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
For some clarification on the subject...
The director in question who is the rental agent for the 150+ units was elected to the board by proxies given to him by the owners who use his agency. He bought his condo 2 years ago. The development is 5 years old. He is also on the condo board and was just elected to the village property owners board. The neighborhood is comprised of single family homes and condos. the condos are limited to an area within one of the villages. He makes his decisions on all of the boards from the "agent" position not an owner position. All board members had to sign a conflict of interest statement before taking their positions on the board.
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FrankD5 on 08/19/2009 10:38 AM
All board members had to sign a conflict of interest statement before taking their positions on the board.

Frank, could you post the text of that CoI statement, if it's not too long?

Can anyone tell me more about common CoI policies (as distinct from basic principles) or point me to web sites with examples?

All I have seen so far are statutes that say a BoD should have one. I have not looked to see if the TX Corp acts have such a requirement, but it looks like a good idea.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Frank, I'm curious about 2 things:

First, how would an "agent" position differ in any substantial or meaningful way from an "owner" perspective, since both would seem to start from the premise that higher property values are good?

And, second, exactly how does one determine from which perspective or position he is operating?
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FrankD5 on 08/19/2009 10:38 AM
The director in question who is the rental agent for the 150+ units was elected to the board by proxies given to him by the owners who use his agency.

He makes his decisions on all of the boards from the "agent" position not an owner position. All board members had to sign a conflict of interest statement before taking their positions on the board.
I don't see how he or others can distinguish between his interests from the two positions. He has interests based on both.

I don't even want to address the dicotomy of the condo association within the village association. It sounds complicated.

The interests of landlords vs. residents are clearly distinct. Both have an interest in property values, but the rental owners have a strong interest in rental values, while the resident owners do not. Landlords who do not also live in the condos or the village may have little interest in various quality of life issues that are important to resident owners. To point out a clear issue on which their interests conflict, the presence of rentals may not promote property values, but they make money for the rental owners.

I like the principle of avoiding conflict with a "direct financial interest", but that is clearly insufficient. Every homeowner has a "direct financial interest" in many things. Directors are owners tasked to look out for the common interests before their own personal interests. The guiding principle for determining CoI must be "personal financial or property interest, distinct from the legitimate interests of the Association."

How does this sound?

The rental agent and rental owners all have an interest in promoting rental incomes. Resident owners are interested in promoting property values and quality of life, perhaps even more than the landlords. These disparate interests are all consistent with the interests of the Condo Owners Association and the Village Association, right? The rental agent was elected by a large number of owners to represent their aggregate and legitimate interests. If there was an issue regarding a particular property owned by a Director, that would be a conflicting personal interest.

These are broad strokes, as the question was broadly posed. We don't know a lot of details, which are not part of this discussion.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I couldn't disagree with your assessment more regarding the differences.

As a agent for rental properties, the quality of life and "rental value" are just as joined at the hip as it is for resident owners.

How can the "rental value" remain high if the property values (including the quality of life) don't?

I would trust an agent for the rental properties to have less of a conflict than I would an absent owner (landlord).

MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FrankD5 on 08/19/2009 10:38 AM
All board members had to sign a conflict of interest statement before taking their positions on the board.
Frank, could you please post the text of that CoI statement, if it's not too long?

Please, can anyone tell me more about CoI policies (as distinct from basic principles) or point me to web sites with examples?

All I have seen so far are statutes that say a BoD should have one. I have not looked to see if the TX Corp acts have such a requirement, but it looks like a good idea.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
http://www.idealist.org/if/idealist/en/FAQ/QuestionViewer/default?section=16&item=59
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
If you don't see the conflict of interest clause in your By-Laws you might check the Articles of Incorporation* that's where I found ours located.

*Articles of Incorporation (sometimes also referred to as the Certificate of Incorporation or the Corporate Charter) are the primary rules governing the management of a corporation in the United States and Canada, and are filed with a state or other regulatory agency. They are (at least in Ohio) usually attached as an exhibit to the Declarations.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
We got nothing, but thanks, Glen.

So I waited a day for any more posts on Frank's situation, so as not to hijack an ongoing discussion. I'm still interested in views on CoI as it applies to my situation, and to see how other people feel about it as the tables get turned.

Remember we had a Director who did not agree with the rest of my BoD about the homeowner, whom we later sued, and who was contemplating some business venture with him (which never went anywhere). My BoD excluded that Director and he eventually resigned. At that time there was also at least one Director who was neutral.

Some of you said that this was not a conflict of interest and some believe it is.

What was not widely known at the time was that the President of the HOA, a realtor, has been the family realtor of the next-door neighbor of the homeowner who built the wall. The Director discussed above was excluded, because he was associated with the homeowner who built the wall. The neighbor and his son have publicly asserted their hatred of that homeowner and vowed to drive him away. They instigated the current lawsuit; although they are not on the BoD, which actually took action against him. The neighbor and his son have right of first refusal on the Defendant homeowner's house, through a divorce settlement. The original lawsuit included a cause of action to foreclose on the Defendant homeowner's house. HOA Pres->Realtor for neighbor family->family ROFR on house->HOA suit to foreclose on house. Is it a Conflict of Interest for the HOA President to be involved in BoD discussions and votes about this lawsuit?
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Sorry. More hearsay.

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