Board insists homeowners sign any correspondence placed on neighborhood bulletin board

Our neighborhood has a bulletin board at the entry to the addition that was built and installed by a previous homeowner. It is installed in an island that is common area. Our current Board president and treasurer insists that anyone placing correspondence on the BB get the board's permission first and sign their name or the board members will tear it off the BB as soon as it is put up. There have never been any rules or regulations developed that might support this. I am wondering if this is not a violation by the board members by censoring homeowners right to communicate with each other and by requiring homeowners to forego their right to privacy when they require them to attach their signature address etc.?

Anyone had this problem?

I agree Roger.
The next question has to be can they censor the contents? I say "no way" to that one and they can not refuse to allow for it to be posted. If the Board wants a Board bulletin Board, let them build or buy their own and encase it in glass with a lock on it and they cam put whatever they want on it, at their own peril.

A bulletin board is just that, they work at some many places with out censorhip of any kind it is incredible to think that having one in an HOA is restricted. So if the Board wants a bulletin Board and wants to control it, ok by me.

But keep your hands off the Community Bulletin Board. Of couse there has to be rules for posting, nothing wrong with that, but community bulletin Board don't require they be signed.
There is not a terrorist behind every tree. You mean to say you think a notice of swim team practice should be signed and dated before it can be put up on a bulletin board. How abost a lost cat?
How about a found wedding ring? How about the first meeting of a Drummers Group? How about a notice of a local yard sale?

Michele,
Why is it important that correspondence be signed? Many people want simply to advise that there have been thefts in the neighborhood, violations of the CCRs, etc. and they don't want retaliation. It seems to me the board wants the homeowner to give up his right to privacy when using this BB but on the other hand when one neighbor complains to the board about CCR violations to the board; the board will allow the complainant to remain anonymous. Is this a double standard or just hipocritical?

*nor being hypocritical.

Robert,
Kinda sounds like you are outnumbered by us on the rules for posting. I agree, all entry onto the board should be from members who are within posting guidelines for civility and being proper. We even required complaints to be inwritting and signed. We also guarenteed anoniminity from the complainer. There should be no reason that someone cannot sign their name to anything public to the membership. That bulliten board is on common property and therefore it falls under the responsibility of the Board to monitor it.

This is a great thread. We just put a bulletin board up by the mailbox. Ours is like the ones you see at schools/churches where it is locked. Anyone can post but they have to give it to a board member to have it placed in the BB.

We did this because our BB was actually inside the Clubhouse were we found not many people went so not a good place for announcements. The one in the clubhouse you can just tack anthing on it. However we do require it to be dated. We do have an unwritten rule if it is offensive it comes down.

We will see how ours does but I think the more info we get out to the owners the better.
r

Glen,
When was the last time Hoatalk took any posting down that was critical of any BOD? Not nasty or threatening or vulgar etc, etc, but critical. Probably never.

And as far as anonymous, how do you know I am Robert and you are Glen, etc, etc. You know all that is required to post here is an e-mail address, and that is certainly not posted by Hoatalk.

This site is a private site paid for by Hoatalk, you or I don't contribute a cent.

The Logic is that a COMMUNITY BULLETIN BOARD should belong to the community. The Board already or can have a Bulletin Board that can censor or restrict or whatever, isn't that enough one way communication?

How many HOA's have web sites that incorporate Blogs or Discussion panels?

Donna,
By your standards your post should not be allowed to stay up.

You go back and read how many posted for and against the use of Community Boards.

Now, do you conclude I am outnumbered? You, Michele and Glen are against this and posted. And since when are we going back over threads and concluding if more people agree then the rest are wrong. Why don't you address the First amendment? Why do you keep refusing to accept I approve of a Board Bulletin Board if they want one. Why are you bent on believing the only use for a Community Bulletin Board is to cuss out the Board and call them a bunch of liars.

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water.

What are you all afraid of? I also stated there must be rules for posting notices but they can't include someone's veiled attempt at censorship. No vulgarity, no sexual content, no sale of firearms if you want. Try that last one on for size by asking the NRA if you can censor that. You all have opened the door for all sorts of crazy stuff. A Community Bulletin Board is not going to hurt an HOA. By your own standards, you don't even have to allow them anyway, so runscared and don't allow them to be put up at all, or, require everyone to sign their names and date them, only accept them when the office is open, only post them when a Board Certified, "screener" is there, or are you going to appoint a committee with a Board chairperson to oversee the requests once a month, etc, etc. You will run all the interest in a bulletin Board right down to the local supermarket or gas station.

Lets hear from the folks that have a locked bulletin board on premise. Tell me how much information is passed back and forth.
And if no information is passed back and forth, what good are they?
Oh darn, I forgot, of course, they can be used for what the Board wants to tell you.

Robert, I hate to say it but your anti-board bias is showing. You immediately presume that because many of us feel that the board should have a responsible posting policy for the bulletin board that they are quashing community communication.

I don't know if you just skim over my comments and don't notice words like the "HOA's official communication channel," but the fact that this is an official HOA communication channel is relevant.

Like it or not a CORPORATE-owned bulletin board (which this one is by virtue of its PLACEMENT in the common area) does not involve the First Amendment. It just simply doesn't.

I can tell you exactly what I'm afraid of as a BoD member to not have approval/rejection control of bulletin board content.

People can and WILL post libelous, inappropriate and often hateful and offending material, yes, even in a COMMUNITY setting.

Even in our little community, WITHOUT a bulletin board, we will often have to remove FROM THE STOP SIGNS, offensive, racist, and vulgar cartoons and materials.

I kid you not, people can be most vicious and immature. Look at some of the forums on the internet that allow for anonymous postings! Hardly "community-minded" material.

And I'm not talking about cranky anti-board material, either. When I worked in corporate, you had no IDEA the nasty, harassing and offensive material workers would post when the bulletin boards were not regulated. The bulletin board system was the responsibility of my department. I learned the hard way how bad an idea anonymous bulletin board postings is.

And in an HOA, when you have people who live in close proximity, and have neighbor-on-neighbor run ins, It. Will. Happen.

Besides, what makes you think that ONLY the board can or will post material?

The members of the community can use the board to post items for sale, notices regarding things like being available to babysit, church pot luck sales, timeshare rentals available, graduation notices, good grief, the use by the COMMUNITY is endless. But having an author's name, starting date and removal date on the items is crucial to maintaining a clean, useful and usable bulletin board.

Please stop trying to make this about boards not allowing communication. It most definitely is about boards allowing responsible communication.

I don't see how you get that I said subverting the HOA is improper. Subvert away! I said that the HOA can control a bulletin board that it owns and for which it is responsible. I would hope they would do so based on civility and relevance, not politics, but there are many other avenues for communication if they are unfair. I also did not say they should control carefully-- if posters are usually reasonable, then it's a good thing to allow free access and just monitor it lightly, but that's reasonably up to the BoD.

I also said that people should sign their messages, rather than post anonymously.

In your example of an editorial, the newspaper owns, controls and is responsible for their editorial page. Anonymity is often not permitted, but that is up to the newspaper editor who sets policy and decides what gets printed.

I also pointed out that the types of reports suggested should come from the HOA and from the police, and not require individuals to step forward and write. Criticizing the HOA (constructively, factually, courteously) is entirely appropriate in my mind. The HOA should allow it; if they do not, then the writer can send a mailing or write to the newspaper.

I'm not sure if you are saying we are anonymous or not. We are in the sense that we don't know each other, but not in the sense that we are known as individuals with consistent posting names.

I've consistently said you don't know anything about a situation I describe, except what I post. By extension, none of us really know anything but the stories posted. I cannot ask you to evaluate an actual situation -- just the one I describe. It's probably more useful to describe it accurately and get your thoughts on that, but that's on the author -- you still only know what I write. It's the same for any of us. This forum is not a vehicle for us to inform each other about any situation that is real or consequential in any immediate way for any others (unless some of you are from the same HOA and know each other).

Within my HOA, I would feel obliged to sign my name and address; also to accept responses and reply to them. If there was an HOA newsletter, bulletin board or web site forum, then the BoD could control it. I would encourage them to monitor only for vulgarity, but I don't get to decide that. If they set up a forum and police in a way I don't like, I can (and may) set up my own.

Robert, I most definitely think that setting up a proper and responsible bulletin board policy is important.

I think you are misreading my comments. I don't think 99.9% of the community is going to use the bulletin board. I said that 99.9% of the POSTINGS may be proper. But that doesn't mean you don't establish a policy that allows you to remove that .1% who don't comply.

We have laws of all kinds predicated on that .1% who don't do things properly.

This is a BULLETIN BOARD, Robert. People aren't forced to use it.

If an HOA wants to erect a bulletin board for community use, then it is irresponsible to do so without some sort of responsible policy.

By establishing the sorts of posts that are acceptable and requiring that anyone who posts something attach their name and the length of time the post is to stay up, the board sets up a policy that does not require constant monitoring.

If they go to the board and there are posts on there that are not appropriate, or that have long past their shelf life (an announcement for a Church picnic that was held 3 months ago) they remove them. Simple as that.

I like the idea of the bulletin board. I understand the Board wanting to regulate what goes up... maybe to reduce clutter, or prevent people from posting harmful material against others, but at the same time I think it can be dangerous if the Board does not set a fair and balanced standard...

What happens when elections come around and a particular homeowner wishes to announce his intent to run... would the incumbent board member feel threatened and feel his notice should not be allowed? What happens if a board member lets their emotion take over when dealing with a neighbor they do not particularly like, would that homeowner's request be denied?

I would think that it would be appropriate to establish a clear set of rules and restrictions, much like some covenants, of things that your notice cannot contain, but leave it to where the Board's restrictions do not turn into censorship.

No pornographic or obscene material, or promotion of illegal action (obviously), should be restricted, but I think that if a homeowner wanted to post criticisms of the board (maybe they are unhappy with the current budget or would like new street lamps, etc.), then they should be allowed. The bulletin board represents the voice of the community, and if you try to take away that voice because the BoD of the corporation meant to represent the community dislike certain opinions, then the state of the community would be threatened.

I also like the idea of giving a bulletin a certain amount of time before it is to be taken down. My school had done this for fliers around campus. They had a stamp with a board member's signature and an end date for the flier... which could be 1-week, 2-weeks, etc... depending on what the purpose of the flier was for. Maybe a gradual scale - 1-week for yard sales homeowner events, 2-weeks for advertisements and announcements, 3-weeks for HOA events and meetings.. coupled with clear restrictions of what cannot be posted, it takes away the element of "censorship" and makes every bulletin fair.

R o b e r t:

Unless you have changed your name to Michelle recently I was NOT addressing you.

"Jon
It is apparent that you think your comments mean something to me,
Hard as it may be for you to understand, it is none the less true.

You're not claiming me as a tax deduction are you? Just curious."

If possible could someone translate this into something I can understand.
It makes no sense. And please explain the part about my claiming him as a tax deduction. Thank you.

R o b e r t:

When you wrote this did it really make any sense?

Brian,

You just make things so nice and simple. That's the best way to play the game. Awesome post.

Michele,

I agree with you 100%. Anyone who wants to post on the bulletin board should not be ashamed to sign it, unless of course. it is totally inappropriate.

So, sign it unless it is shameful, in which case it should not be posted. That's a good policy, and a good reason for the BoD to control the BB. Nice if that policy can be accomplished as an honor policy, but either way, the BoD is responsible for deciding whether or not enforcement is necessary.

BoD should not enforce based on politics or whether the poster disagrees with Directors. Too bad that will inevitably happen in some HOA's, but there are other communication channels for Members to use when the BoD goes rogue.

Freedom of speech is a duty of government, not corporate BoD's. Even government is not required to provide venues for speech or to allow any government-controlled or -funded venue to be used for any speech. Government is merely prohibited from abridging freedom of speech by censoring private media and communications that do not themselves infringe on the rights of the citizenry. Even if the HOA BoD is considered as a quasi-governing institution, it has no ability to control newspapers, television channels, private mail, or conversations. That is all government is restricted from doing.

An HOA is not prohibited from controlling its owned media. The problem with an HOA enforcing a BB policy badly (or enforcing a bad policy) is that is stupid and counterproductive. I believe such may constitute a fiduciary breach in some circumstances and could be described as abridging homeowner's rights (as in we are paying for it, it may be allowed in our governing documents, it's should be used broadly for the good of the community, not for personal political agendas). But the simple fact of controlling corporate property is not evil.

Interesting that you come to that conclusion in this thread, where I believe my point of view matches Donna's and Ellen's and is contrary to Robert's.

You think I see things as Robert does, because I approach matters from basic principles, irrespective of whether I come to similar or opposite conclusions? That is also interesting. Please don't tell me what to write or what I should consider important. I will make up my own mind, thank you.

That Board's other interests and priorities were not brought up by the OP, and are probably not germane to this thread. If you find them interesting -- if you know something about them or wish to discuss priorities in general, then please enjoy posting about them on another thread. That actually is off-topic here. We are not a BoD; we are participants in a discussion forum. We can spend our time discussing what we please. You obviously do so.

I am not advising a particular BoD. I am not making specific suggestions to the OP about their specific situation, never mind suggesting what their BoD should focus on. My posts have clearly been on the general topic of whether a BoD should or may control their own bulleting board. The same principles would probably apply to other HOA-owned media, such as a web site.

Although I don't feel the need to make obvious comparisons between you and another poster, seems you like to attack people personally and irrationally without actually reading and considering their posts. That's in response to the above post directed at me. I haven't actually read much of your responses to Robert. They aren't about HOA's, and I'm not really interested in them.

So you are saying you are not interested. "YEP" Then why are you wasting days discussing my discussion of what you don't want to discuss?

You are entitled to your opinion of the topic. You are entitled to your opinion of my opinion. You are even entitled to your opinion of how I discuss the topic, although you are getting off-topic. "YEP"
It is true that serving on a BoD and posting in a discussion forum are two very different things. I have tried to suggest to you which we are doing here, but that ship has sailed. I suppose that should be obvious, when someone complains about spending time "discussing" in a discussion forum.
You are the clown who a few days ago requested from me answers to a great many questions about this lawsuit -- not just a quick recap or a question to clarify my post in that thread, but a long list of detailed questions, so that you could "determine whether this suit is in the best interest of the peoperty [sic]." This was not requested of you, but something you wanted to do. But for all that you asked, you were not willing to make a little effort to search back a few days. "YEP"

Even so, I gave you the courtesy of a detailed reply to all your questions. You did not then reciprocate with even the courtesy of acknowledgment. You asked for a lot of my time, because you were lazy but curious, and I gave it to you kindly. Now you are whining to me about your choice to spend your time reading my posts, which I did not request of you. Therefore, since you have not figured out for yourself what is necessary, I invite you to read me no more. You have advertised your character sufficiently, so I may do the same. Let me make this clear for you:

JonD1 of New York, each of my posts is preceded by my ID, just as yours are thus identified. Instead of whining ad nauseum about how you are not interested in reading them, why not just skip all my posts? "YEP"
You betcha!

Ellen,
Our covenants state" The association has the right to reasonably limit the use of common areas by published rules and regulations." I posted a notice of reminder that some pet owner/owners were violating our covenants and county ordinances by allowing their pets to defecate and urinate on my lawn and lawns of several of my neighbors. I did this to inform or remind folks that some of us do not appreciate this. No vulgarity, threats, direct personal attacks or names were mentioned. I did this only after bringing it to the attention of the board on several occasions. The board's response was that they couldn't do anything about it and it was an animal control department problem. I understood this but asked that it be put in the newsletter or minutes of the meeting. This wasn't done.
I posted my unsigned notice on the BB because I feared retaliation from overprotective pet owners and didn't want to engage in a verbal war. When I discovered the treasurer of our BOD removing my notice I asked why and he and the president both stated that unless it was signed it would be removed. My issue is that with no published rules and regulations, do they have the right to make up the rules as they go?
The difficulty with publishing rules and regulations on what is appropriate, tasteful, acceptable, shameful, hateful, politically correct, non-offensive, etc.; can be somewhat like legislating morality. Some of the comments responding to my post bears that out.
I've served on my BOD for 4 consecutive years and headed the committee to rewrite our CCR's. I follow the rules and we haven't had a problem with the use of this BB before. I simply want the BOD to publish their R&R's and present them to the homeowners for comments/recommendations before they start enforcing them.

Roger,
Do you think the BOD can make up policy as they go or do they have to publish rules and regulations governing use of common areas as the covenants say?

Based on your missive, I would be of the same opinion as the board, that you used the BB system inappropriately.

I have no idea if they are truly "making things up as they go along" or if you are just miffed that you got your hand slapped (figuratively).

Also, I think Robert said it all about as well as I ever could, including the part about the particular pet problem and the bear.

It really does sound like this is an issue you need to work with your Animal Control people about. Though, to be honest, it's not likely to really get solved to your satisfaction.

Robert,
I simply want the BOD to follow the covenants which say that rules and regulations for use of the BB must be published. If rules and regulations for the swimming pool were not published and posted would it be ok if the BOD made them up as they go.

Michele,
If you have no idea if "they are making things up as they go" is as I say then why do you question my statement that there are no published or posted rules & regulations for the use of common areas as required by our covenants? That's kind of a non comment. What I want is an exchange of info with other folks who may have a similar situation in their HOA. Do you?

anna,
In my experience, I agree Stan has the right to ask this issue be put on the agenda at a Board Meeting. Let me add:
Normally the agenda is set by the President and it would not be surprising to see the President not allow it to be an agenda item.

The President presides and he can pretty much do what he wants about what is on the meeting notice. Of course if your docuents specify something else then do what it says. Open meetings of the Board should allow for Public comment. You can say anything you want, the Board is not obligated to reply. But if they resist public questions they do so with the risk of being recalled.............simple.

The owners vote the Board in, they can vote them out. You may be able to get enough support to recall the Board if they don't respond to Public Questions. You will never get enouigh support to recall the Board if they don't psot rules on a bulletin board. Right and wrong is not the question. Motivation and desire for changes is the measure.