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JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Here is the email I received from the FCC in answer to my question re: cell booster:

(copy & paste):
You are receiving this email in response to your inquiry to the FCC.

Thank you for contacting the FCC Consumer Center.

The OTARD rules prohibit restrictions on a property owner or tenant's right to install, maintain, or use an antenna to receive VIDEO programming from direct broadcast satellites (DBS), broadband radio services (formerly referred to as multi-channel multipoint distribution services or MMDS), and television broadcast stations (TVBS). Thus the installation of a cellular booster antenna would not fall under the OTARD rules since cellular service is not considered a video service.

Cellular "repeaters", "boosters or "amplifiers" may be installed only by the LICENSEE (cellular service provider). Cellular end users are not the licensee. These fall under Parts 22, 24 and 90 the rules, which are available online from a link at wireless.fcc.gov/rules.html - in particular, see 90.219 and 22.383. Contact the licensee for installation.

The rules are available on-line from wireless.fcc.gov/rules.html

The "FCC Approval" on products is not a license or endorsement, but only states that it has passed examination for use in a particular service under the rules of that service.

Additional language for Part 22 in building:

FCC Rule Section 22.383, "In-building radiation systems" provides that "Licensees may install and operate in-building radiation systems without applying for authorization or notifying the FCC, provided that the locations of the in-building radiation systems are within the protected service area of the licensee's authorized transmitter(s) on the same channel or channel block."

There is no provision for non-licensees installing and/or operating in-building radiation systems.

The following excerpts from FCC rules discuss in-building cellular radiation systems:

47 CFR
Telecommunication
CHAPTER I
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION (CONTINUED)
SUBCHAPTER B -- COMMON CARRIER SERVICES

PART 22 -- PUBLIC MOBILE SERVICES

[EXCERPTS]

§22.99 Definitions

In-building radiation systems. Supplementary systems comprising low power transmitters, receivers, indoor antennas and/or leaky coaxial cable radiators, designed to improve service reliability inside buildings or structures located within the service areas of stations in the Public Mobile Services.

§22.165 (d) (1) The interfering contours of the additional transmitter(s) must be totally encompassed by the composite interfering contour of the existing station (or stations under common control of the applicant) on the same channel, except that this limitation does not apply to nationwide network paging stations or in-building radiation systems.

§22.352 Protection from interference.

(c) Situations in which no protection is afforded. Except as provided elsewhere in this part, no protection from interference is afforded in the following situations:

(7) In-building radiation systems. No protection is provided against interference to the service of in-building radiation systems (see §22.383).

§22.373 Access to transmitters.

Unless otherwise provided in this part, the design and installation of transmitters in the Public Mobile Services must meet the requirements of this section.

(a) Transmitters and control points, other than those used with in-building radiation systems, must be installed such that they are readily accessible only to persons authorized by the licensee to operate or service them.

(e) Transmitters used with in-building radiation systems must be installed such that, to the extent possible, they are readily accessible only to persons authorized by the licensee to access them.

(f) Transmitters used with in-building radiation systems must be designed such that, in the event an unauthorized person does gain access, that person can not cause the transmitter to deviate from its authorized operating parameters in such a way as to cause interference to other stations.

§22.377 Certification of transmitters.

Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, transmitters used in the Public Mobile Services, including those used with signal boosters, in-building radiation systems and cellular repeaters, must be certificated for use in the radio services regulated under this part. Transmitters must be certificated when the station is ready for service, not necessarily at the time of filing an application.

§22.383 In-building radiation systems.

Licensees may install and operate in-building radiation systems without applying for authorization or notifying the FCC, provided that the locations of the in-building radiation systems are within the protected service area of the licensee's authorized transmitter(s) on the same channel or channel block.

§22.537 Technical channel assignment criteria.

The rules in this section establish technical assignment criteria for the channels listed in §22.531. These criteria permit channel assignments to be made in a manner such that reception by public paging receivers of signals from base transmitters, within the service area of such base transmitters, is protected from interference caused by the operation of independent co-channel base transmitters.

(g) In-building radiation systems. The locations of in-building radiation systems must be within the service contour(s) of the licensee's authorized transmitter(s) on the same channel. In-building radiation systems are not protected facilities, and therefore do not have service or interfering contours.

Representative Number : TSR44
(end copy & paste)

MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
John - What is the "Cliff Notes" version of this. So in response to the original post - The short answer is....
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 08/13/2009 10:16 AM
John - What is the "Cliff Notes" version of this. So in response to the original post - The short answer is....

"Cellular "repeaters", "boosters or "amplifiers" may be installed [bold]only[/bold] by the LICENSEE (cellular service provider)."
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Thanks John!
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
The short version is that not only are the boosters not protected the FCC considers them a violation of the rules.

While I don't advocate it, it does open a new avenue for getting the antenna removed. You could report the thing to the FCC and they may decide to write a letter to the owner explaining that they are in violation of regulations and face fines if they don't turn off the systems.

Now the FCC would not require the removal of the antenna but simply the guts making the antenna of use.

All the same I still believe that the antennas are less of an eyesore then the dish that is protected.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
I do not understand one thing...

The FCC stated in their response that antennas used to "receive VIDEO programming from direct broadcast satellites (DBS), broadband radio services (formerly referred to as multi-channel multipoint distribution services or MMDS), and television broadcast stations (TVBS)" are covered by the OTARD rules.

According to their fact sheet, "fixed wireless signals" are covered, which includes "wireless signals used to provide telephone service or high-speed Internet access to a fixed location".

The fact sheet also states that someone can install an "antenna that will be used for voice and data services even though it does not provide video transmissions".

So, what exactly is the definition of "telephone service", in regards to wireless signals, and why does the FCC's response stress "VIDEO" when their fact sheet states that covered antenna's do not need to provide video?

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I find the FCC's response to be inconsistent with their published material.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 08/13/2009 11:02 AM
Posted By MikeS1 on 08/13/2009 10:16 AM
John - What is the "Cliff Notes" version of this. So in response to the original post - The short answer is....


"Cellular "repeaters", "boosters or "amplifiers" may be installed [bold]only[/bold] by the LICENSEE (cellular service provider)."

John,

Correction. The "cliff notes" version is that "CELLULAR PHONE ANTENNAS ARE NOT COVERED BY THE OTARD RULE"!!! Just as I stated while being called a moron and unable to read at the 7th grad level by you. BTW, thx for the apology! ;-)
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Keven,

Why don't you contact the FCC and let them know their response to John (not to mention to me!!) is wrong???

Frankly, I think it's time to put this thread to bed!
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 08/14/2009 7:23 AM
Keven,

Why don't you contact the FCC and let them know their response to John (not to mention to me!!) is wrong???

Frankly, I think it's time to put this thread to bed!

Wrong ... again !

Cellular antenna installed by the service provider (ie: licenssee) are proteected by OTARD, they simply must be installed by the provider!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
John,

YOU are wrong again. Didn't you read this in your reply: "Thus the installation of a cellular booster antenna would not fall under the OTARD rules since cellular service is not considered a video service. Cellular "repeaters, boosters or amplifiers" may be installed only by the LICENSEE (cellular service provider)".

If I recall correctly we were talking about erecting a cellular phone antenna on a homeowner's property. That does NOT fall under the OTARD ruling (see the quote above from your response from the FCC). We were not talking about a licensee's ability to erect an antenna on private property, owned by a h/o or by the HOA. The licensee's "right" to install an antenna is NOT covered by the OTARD ruling. If it was, Verizon would not have asked my HOA BOD if they could "rent" an area located in one of our common areas to erect a monopalm (a cellular phone antenna that looks like a palm tree). They would have just put the antenna up and said "we can do it, we're protected by the OTARD ruling!

Why not just give it up John and be man enough to admit you were wrong!!!
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
It just seems very inconsistent with other information regarding antennas.

They responded "cellular service is not considered a video service" and thus not protected, but in a Report and Order from 2000, the FCC extends "to antennas that receive and transmit telecommunications and other fixed wireless signals our existing prohibition of restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of certain video antennas", so why differentiate between video and other wireless signals, when there are other rulings that extend coverage to wireless telecommunications.

I had also read the most of the Code of Federal Regulations Title 47, in addition to the sections the FCC referenced in their response, and they state in their regulations that Lincencees are allowed to erect antennas, given the specific rules and applications for certification are followed, and defines such signal boosters as ones that operate within the frequencies of 220-222 MHz... when cellular phones operate from 300-3000 MHz, which leads me to believe the FCC was referencing rules for mobile radio services, and were outlining regulations for radio transmissions such as CB, AM/FM, and HAM, that does operate within that spectrum of frequencies (the title of the referenced section is "PRIVATE LAND MOBILE RADIO SERVICES")

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 08/14/2009 12:53 PM
John,

YOU are wrong again. Didn't you read this in your reply: "Thus the installation of a cellular booster antenna would not fall under the OTARD rules since cellular service is not considered a video service. Cellular "repeaters, boosters or amplifiers" may be installed only by the LICENSEE (cellular service provider)".

If I recall correctly we were talking about erecting a cellular phone antenna on a homeowner's property. That does NOT fall under the OTARD ruling (see the quote above from your response from the FCC). We were not talking about a licensee's ability to erect an antenna on private property, owned by a h/o or by the HOA. The licensee's "right" to install an antenna is NOT covered by the OTARD ruling. If it was, Verizon would not have asked my HOA BOD if they could "rent" an area located in one of our common areas to erect a monopalm (a cellular phone antenna that looks like a palm tree). They would have just put the antenna up and said "we can do it, we're protected by the OTARD ruling!

Why not just give it up John and be man enough to admit you were wrong!!!

I am wrong. Mia Culpa. Mia Maximo Culpa. I am wrong.
The FCC are also idiots.
One department does not know what another department is doing.
"Fixed wireless signals for communications......." was ADDED to OTARD in 2002.
Evidently the 'FAQs' department has not been kept up-to-date.
However, I posted their reply as received.

Good luck in court to the original poster ... I sincerely hope the HOA in question loses.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 08/14/2009 7:22 AM
Posted By JohnB26 on 08/13/2009 11:02 AM
Posted By MikeS1 on 08/13/2009 10:16 AM
John - What is the "Cliff Notes" version of this. So in response to the original post - The short answer is....


"Cellular "repeaters", "boosters or "amplifiers" may be installed [bold]only[/bold] by the LICENSEE (cellular service provider)."


John,

Correction. The "cliff notes" version is that "CELLULAR PHONE ANTENNAS ARE NOT COVERED BY THE OTARD RULE"!!! Just as I stated while being called a moron and unable to read at the 7th grad level by you. BTW, thx for the apology! ;-)

Please quote me acurately .... I did not call you a moron ... I called you an idiot

From MSN Encarta: Idiot; [14th century. Via French and Latin< Greek idiōtēs "private person, layperson" < idios (see idio-)]
DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
How about you both grow up and quit acting like squabbling brats. I'm sure everyone here is getting tired of you two trying to get in the last word. Admit that you aren't going to come to an agreement and just start ignoring each other.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DwightT on 08/14/2009 7:26 PM
How about you both grow up and quit acting like squabbling brats. I'm sure everyone here is getting tired of you two trying to get in the last word. Admit that you aren't going to come to an agreement and just start ignoring each other.

OK
SkuddleM (Colorado)
Posts: 62
Posted:
I, the original poster, don't mind the back-and-forth because it provides good arguments for BOTH sides of the question. So, Mary and John, thanks for the time and effort you (and all the others) put into this thread trying to help.

Skeezix
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
I just saw my first one of these the other day.

Are there a lot of complaints about these?

To me, and it's just the opinion of someone who lives in a mixed-use neighborhood with lots of full grown trees, lots of electrical wires overhead, and lots of "bluffs" (rolling hills that really could prevent adequate cellular phone coverage)...I don't think they look that bad.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Skuddle,

Thank you for your kind words. :-) My only goal was to provide the correct information. So call me nitpicking and argumentative, but I find it hard to keep quiet when someone keeps giving out false info especially when they've been proven to be wrong.

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