HOA above State Law

Started by PaulaS5 • 33 replies • 3891 views

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PaulaS5 (South Carolina)
Posts: 8

Posted:

I live in a State that does not have any Laws for a HOA. I went to a Meeting and was told that the HOA was above the State and didn't have to follow State Laws is this true? I think the BOD that we have. Has let there position go to there head. They are also using there profession to bully the homeowners for two of them are police officers. They are doing things for the HOA while on duty and when they are off duty they will walk up to a homeowner and tell them they can give them a fine from the County they are really on a power trip.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Paula,

Your question is way too vague. What type of laws are they breaking or enforcing and what does the HOA documents say in reguards to what they are making judgement on?

MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432

Posted:

Some laws in some states are "defaults" for when a corporation (or HOA) has no provisions, but can be overridden by the governing documents or even BoD resolutions. Other laws restrict how a corporation can operate. It's usually clear in the statute how it applies; also governing documents often refer to the State's laws and thereby incorporate them.

To add to DonnaS's response, in addition to telling us more about what you mean, please tell us if you have read your HOA's governing documents and what they say about these matters as well as your state's laws.

Are the people elected or otherwise on your Board of Directors, or are they acting on their own?

Is the abuse of authority that you allege a single incident or an ongoing pattern?

PaulaS5 (South Carolina)
Posts: 8

Posted:

They are not following Department of Motor Vech. on what a commercial truck is and is writing up on a company truck that is not a commercial truck. The covenants only talk about a commercial truck not a company truck.

We do not have state laws on the books about HOAs.

The BOD are elected by the homeowners and they are abusing there authority and this is an ongoing pattern. They are not sending out proxies for anything Ex: Budget and Voting for a new BOD.

The one police officer is off dugy and going around to homeowners who are blocking sidewalks and telling them he can give them a $200.00 dollar fine which is not in the By-laws or Covenants. But the county might have this law but if they say they are above the State Law then why should they want to enforce county Laws.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Your governing documents most likely allows the board the flexibility to define, for your HOAs purposes, what a "commercial vehicle" is.

That does not mean that their definition is necessarily in conflict, or overrides, the state/locality definition of "commercial vehicle."

They can impose stricter definitions, but they cannot impose less strict definitions.

Which means that they HAVE TO acknowledge a vehicle that fits the state's definition of "commercial truck," but they can ADD TO that and define another type of vehicle, a company truck, as a "commercial vehicle" for the purposes of their documents and can enforce against that.

For example, our own locality defines a commercial vehicle mostly by weight, though it also includes number of axles, etc. It says nothing about passenger vehicles with company signage being a "commercial vehicle."

We have further defined commercial vehicles as those vehicles which also include any signage.

That means the person who works for the Metropolitan Insurance Company, who drives a Camry has to park her vehicle in the garage since it has the name and logo of the company on the doors.

Our state would not consider that a commercial vehicle, but our documents do. In such a case, since the difference is more strict and not less strict, we can enforce it.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Paula,
I also live in SC in a condo with a umbrella POA for the Island.

To assert there are no laws governing associations is just plain misleading. Granted there are no State Statutes NOW that address HOA's. However if you break any law, and get caught, of South Carolina you will be arrested. What you are explaining is questionable activity no matter HOA or what ever. Because they are on HOA property does not exempt them from the law. I am sure you have CC&R's that your association operates under. I imagine you have a board, I would go immediately to this Board and register a complaint and and if necessary record or tape your complaint and demand that it be made part of the minutes.

I take it you are talking about county police officers, as you quoted. Have you been to your Sheriff and lodged a complaint?
Do you feel threatened of intimidated or afraid? If so, this site is not where you should go, if nothing else contact your county administrator or your county council representative or go to a county council meeting and make a statement.

Your Board has the responsibility to govern the association under your documents. You as an owner have signed that you will abide by these provisions. The Board legal responsibility is to govern fairly and provide the association with fiscal and fiduciary accountability. The owners have the responsibility (legal) to participate it your governance. If someone is pushing you around, push back. You have no choice.

But that's that and realities dictate also. Avoid confrontation with these people but learn your rights and get support enough that when you make an issue of it, you speak from strength and not just griping. Be smart and get ready to change things, that it what you have to do, make a change.

I am in Beaufort County. If I felt there was county police officers engaged in the activities you describe, I would not hesitate to make an appointment with Sheriff Tanner.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulaS5 on 08/12/2009 10:44 AM

The one police officer is off dugy and going around to homeowners who are blocking sidewalks and telling them he can give them a $200.00 dollar fine which is not in the By-laws or Covenants. But the county might have this law but if they say they are above the State Law then why should they want to enforce county Laws.

Of course I wasn't there, so I don't know what was actually said, but I'm guessing that a mis-communication has occurred.

They probably were trying to explain what I did in another post. That their documents can be more restrictive than the State codes. So the HOA codes can be more restrictive and still enforceable. Now, the STATE won't enforce your HOA's stricter codes, but the HOA can. And if they're doing their job correctly, they will.

But the off-duty officer is correct. It doesn't matter if parking across the sidewalk is not mentioned in your governing documents. If it is in the municipal code, then he can fine you for it. He has that authority, on- or off-duty.

And if he doesn't, he can very likely find someone at the touch of a phone call, who does have that authority.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

To all,
Now if you want to assume the officers are acting in a proper manner, why are we even discussing this. They have the right to enforce the law as they see it.............it is nearly always "officers call."

But that is not what is being conveyed in this post. Right or wrong, true or false, the poster is conveying she is uncomfortable with the actions of these particular sheriffs deputies (I think).

It is just as much a duty of the officers to establish communication and good will with people as it is to enforce the law. In fact I am sure you will find Officers spend more time in community relations than they do in arresting bad guys. Do we routinely suspect a person complaining about the police. I suspect we do. I do. But here we have a story that we have to believe until something changes. Right now, we have the poster giving us info, we are not going to have the police officer come on here and defend himself, so what do we do.

I also suspect there is more to the issue than the police officers and there is also an underlying problem with the Board. Maybe that will turn out to be the real issue......who knows.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

With all due respect, Robert, I don't see this as what you are describing.

What I do see is what I see a lot of, even here in my own community.

The Officer in question is on the board. This poster claims he is using that position to tell people he can fine them.

Well, he CAN fine them, on- or off-duty, if they are in violation of a code or ordinance over which he has authority.

In my mind, he IS trying to be fair. He is only telling the violators that he COULD fine them. That what they are doing is against the law or code and giving them the opportunity to STOP doing whatever it is they are doing so they don't get the fine. If he were trying to be a d*** he would have already fined them and let THAT serve as a warning/intimidation to others.

You obviously read between the lines and came away with an entirely different take.

I came away with this:

The board is trying to enforce the CC&Rs, and two of the board members happen to be police officers.

There are definitions in THEIR CC&Rs that are STRICTER than the STATE definitions for commercial vehicles. When (apparently) challenged on that, they, correctly, informed those present that their CC&Rs CAN BE STRICTER than the State code. Which was then turned around/spun into that they said they were "above" state law.

The officer is doing his job when he lets violators know they are doing something they could be fined for and asks them to stop doing it. I prefer the gentle warning over the fine any day.

Anyway, that's my take.

I'm also guessing, though I could be wrong, that either Paula or a very close friend/neighbor either (1) owns the commercial vehicle in question, or (2) was the one parked straddling the sidewalk.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Since when do individual board members approach members and start correcting residents, using "I" to descibe consequences, This sounds like bullying and threats.

I have a problem with that, unless the board has appointed him as a code enforcement officer.

Ask the board to provide their policy and procedures for violations - in writing.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

I don't have a problem with that.

He was not approaching them on HOA-related violations.

It's his community. He's an officer of the law.

If he wants to give people warnings to have them correct violations, that's on him.

He wasn't doing so in his capacity of "board member." He was doing so in capacity of officer of the law.

We have several officers who live in our development. Some of them prefer to ignore blatant violations, others don't.

One officer in particular will talk to residents when they are parked the wrong way (facing traffic) and ask them to repark. He's also cautioned people about parking too far out from the curb (there is a minimum and maximum distance from the curb/gutter one is allowed to park).

If he came to me, I would appreciate the warning as opposed to an outright fine.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

PS to Susan: We hardly have an exact quote from the officer regarding how he actually handled the parking violation instance.

We all know that people will filter information when retelling a scenario in order to present themselves (or their position) in a better light.

So I take the alleged "quote" from the officer with a grain of salt.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Paula,

In a general sense, the HOA is not above State Law and what your example is becomes murkey at best. The HOA must follow County law as well, referring to a vehicle parked across a driveway UNLESS the roads in the HOA are owned privately by the HOA. If not, they ARE subject to road and traffic enforcement.

On duty, they have a right to enforce and write tickets. While off duty, going up to neighbors and saying that could give them a fine from the County is not appropriate and is definitely bullying and threatening. I suggest that your Board define what these off duty cops jobs are and if that does not work, a call to the P.D is in order. Off duty cops are to be helpful and sserve the community in a positive way, not walking around looking for someone to threaten.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Paula,

I think what may be happening is that the h/o's in your community think of the police officers as board members. So when the police officer informed a resident that his car could be ticketed for being parked over the sidewalk, the resident thought he was saying it was an HOA violation. I know that is a parking violation where I live. Perhaps the board member police officers should be told that they need to let people know if they're speaking as a board member or speaking as a police officer.

I agree these board member police oficers shouldn't use their positions as a bully pulpit -- and perhaps they aren't. Frankly I see nothing wrong with his actions; however, I wasn't there so I don't know what the tone of his remarks was. Tone of voice and body language speak volumes!!!

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

To all,
For the record I think we are talking County Sheriffs deputies, I believe she posted that.
Now I don't know where this place is located or if it has county Road or whatever.

I do question whether a County or any other officer can fine an individual under the covenants, if that is what we are talking about.

If they are breaking a county law or committing a crime they can exert their authority, which, in my opinion would not be fining anyone, the courts do that in civil court or traffic court or where ever.

It has been my experience with any police officers they don't start throwing fines around unless they come with a citation violation.

None of us knows who is right here and we apparently see this from different views. I don't see anyone condemning the officers or passing judgment. I said if she feels threatened she should do something about it and I would tell anyone that.

I would say that if the officers had every right to fine (I don't think they do)then the result of their actions in any contact with anyone in this HOA should not result in someone raising the issue of intimidation. I am not saying who is right, they can work that out.

PaulaS5 (South Carolina)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Thanks for all the replies. Yes we have a company truck and in the Covenants is states no Commercial Veh. This truck is a ford ranger which is not a Commercial Veh. there is nothing in the Covenants about lettering on a Veh. I have also checked the county laws and there is nothing on the books about blocking the side walk on a secondary road and yes the county ownes the road and the sidewalk. The two county police officers have been told by there supervisior to seperate HOA and work for you can see this is not being done. This police officer has not been to my house about this but to my neighbors and a couple of other homeowners and they all say the same thing. Now he is riding around in the police car looking for violiations. With this said, I was taught a cop was your friend and no they don't need to be in the police car doing HOA work or even using there title when going up to a house off duty and lying about a fine. I will be contacting there supervisior which I don't like to but enough is enough. This is come to the point of harshment.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonnaS on 08/12/2009 1:57 PM

On duty, they have a right to enforce and write tickets. While off duty, going up to neighbors and saying that could give them a fine from the County is not appropriate and is definitely bullying and threatening.

Again, I respectfully disagree with this position. We have hired an off-duty office in our sub-division for exactly this sort of thing, among other security issues. (keep our retention pond free of trespassers, for one thing.)

He does NOT enforce our covenants, he only addresses county ordinance issues.

Sometimes he writes tickets. Sometimes he just talks to the homeowner.

In most every case of someone violating county parking and/or speeding or other similar violations, he will ALWAYS speak to the homeowner first and give them a warning (really, just let them know that what they are doing is not legal and that they could be fined and/or cited if they don't correct the problem).

On or off duty, their ability to do so is 24/7.

The resident police officer who lives here does the same thing. He has even arrested people he's stopped and cited when he finds out they are either driving drunk or have an outstanding warrant. All while "off duty."

But that's beside the point.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulaS5 on 08/12/2009 4:07 PM
Thanks for all the replies. Yes we have a company truck and in the Covenants is states no Commercial Veh. This truck is a ford ranger which is not a Commercial Veh. there is nothing in the Covenants about lettering on a Veh.

If there is nothing in the covenants about signs or lettering on vehicles, then my point still stands.

The board can STILL make a definition for COMMERCIAL VEHICLES to INCLUDE any vehicle that contains logos or lettering. Which apparently your board has done. OUR documents don't address lettering on vehicles, either, but our board has defined "commercial vehicles" to INCLUDE any vehicle that contains lettering and such. The ONLY exception is emergency vehicles, like EMS or police cars.

So, unfortunately, you would still be in violation.

Quote:

Posted By PaulaS5 on 08/12/2009 4:07 PM
I have also checked the county laws and there is nothing on the books about blocking the side walk on a secondary road and yes the county ownes the road and the sidewalk. The two county police officers have been told by there supervisior to seperate HOA and work for you can see this is not being done.

No, I cannot see that this is not being done. If he is addressing county or state violations, then he HAS separated the two. You have found nothing in your search, but it still may be on the books somewhere. I wouldn't even pretend to know what is or isn't included in our county codes. Some things I know, but even with a search, I couldn't possible know all of them. But I will say this, I have yet to live in a jurisdiction that does NOT include parking straddling a sidewalk as illegal. It may not be enforced very often, but it's usually somewhere in the codes.

I apologize, and I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I still see this as an exercise of "sour grapes," as often happens when people are notified of something they are doing that isn't kosher. It's human nature. I also don't see attempts at enforcement over violations as "harassment." Just sayin'.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Opps. Sorry for the underlining. Can't edit so. . .

PaulaS5 (South Carolina)
Posts: 8

Posted:

That is great that your police officers talk to the homeowners where ours does not. For they thank they are better than every one else. But lets get off the subject of the police officers. I was asking about the HOA above state law. Our covenants are more relaxed than other HOAs around us. But for some reason our HOA is having more than our share of problems. When a BOD which is not a police officer got up and said they did not have to follow the State's Law everyone was really quite. For we have never been told this before and I thought everyone had to follow the State,County, or City Laws. Depending on where you live. I live in the County and yes I have talked to a county council man and was told that they will not get involved in a HOA.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Explain to me how you can hire a police officer to do an association enforcement job and he is off-duty.

If he is enforceing covenants about security of the association and chasing vandals out of the pond, isn't that association orders.
But I guess if you hire them to patrol and say don't involve the association in any of your citation or enforcement, just do your 24/7 job for the county, and we will pay you for????????

Look the presence of a uniformed police officer is the greatest detriment to crime there is. You are very forunate to have police officers in your community but they are homeowners and must conduct themselves to the same standards as the rest of us. They should not intimidate people IF IF IF that is what they are doing.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

I thought I made it clear that the officer we hired is NOT enforcing HOA restrictions. If not, let me do that now. They do NOT enforce HOA violations. The DO enforce city, county and state violations.

He CAN run trespassers off because we have filed a document with the police department giving permission to them to do so.

Trespassing is a tricky business and we have filed a form that allows officers to check the ID and remove anyone who is not an association member. The owner of the private property (our HOA) has to give permission to have trespassers removed. Now in most cases that would be done in person, in other words, every time they stopped someone who is not an association member, then they would have to contact a board member who would have to come to the lake and say, "We did not invite this person onto our private property."

By completing this form, we have given them permission to do that without us having to come down in person each time.

So, again, no, he does NOT enforce our deed restrictions.

He only enforces COUNTY and STATE violations, which trespassing is one.

Many many officers supplement their income by hiring themselves out for security, especially since hard times in the county have meant cut backs in their overtime.

But to address the original poster, if this board member who is also an officer, is upsetting enough neighbors with his actions, then they need to make sure they do not vote for his continued boardship come next election.

Also, again, I still think your group has misconstrued what the board was saying.

They do NOT have to have their regulations be the same as state or local laws.

They can be STRICTER, which it sounds like they are.

The local code enforcers won't enforce them, because that's not their job. That is the job of the HOA. BUT, the HOA can STILL enforce their covenants, even if they go further than state law.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

By way, here is a copy of one of the Security and Safety Reports our "hired" off-duty officer presents to us with his statement.

The parking violations that he enforces or cites are strictly COUNTY or STATE parking offenses. All our documents say regarding parking is that no on-street parking longer than 4 hours. The illegal parking is either straddling a sidewalk, parked facing the wrong direction (against the oncoming traffic), parking too far from the curb, and a few others that HE knows about but to which I really don't pay attention. I just take him at his word that his warning or citation was for illegal parking.

Traffic Enforcement Activities.............Date.........Location
1Traffic Stop
1 Arrest (One Highlight / Expired Plates / No Insurance / Operating on a Suspended License / Possession of Suspended License)09/03/2008 5900 Block of XXXX Blvd

2 Traffic Stops
2 Citations (Traffic Violations)
1 Arrest (No Seat Belt / No Insurance / Expired Plates / Failure to Registrar Change of Motor Vehicle / Operating on a Suspended License / Possession of Suspended License) 09/07/2008 5800 Block of XXXXX Blvd

2 Traffic Stops
2 Citations (Traffic Violations) 09/09/2008 XXXX Blvd / XXXX Dr
XXXX Blvd / XXXXRd

2 Traffic Stops
3 Citations (Traffic Violations) 09/10/2008 XXXX Blvd / XXXX Dr
5800 Block of XXXX Blvd

Criminal Enforcement Activities.......Date.........Location
2 Field Interviews (Two teenagers were walking down the middle of street during late hours) 09/03/2008 5900 Block of XXXX Blvd

1 Criminal Trespass Citation
2 Verbal Warning (Juveniles requested to leave and not trespass on XXXX Lake property) 09/10/2008 5813 XXXX Blvd (XXXX Lake)

Parking Enforcement Activities........Date.........Location
1 Verbal Warning (Requested resident to properly park illegally parked 2 door black ford)

1 Parking Citation / Vehicle Towed (Driver Arrested / Blocking Roadway) 09/03/2008 5900 Block of XXXX Blvd

3 Parking Citations (Illegally Parked Vehicles)
1 Parking Citation / Vehicle Towed (Driver Arrested / Blocking Main Entrance / Expired Plates)
1 Verbal Warning (Requested resident to properly park illegally parked 4 door white jeep) 09/07/2008 8216 XXXX Place
5800 XXXX Blvd
5924 XXXX Blvd
5920 XXXX Blvd

1 Parking Citation (Illegally Parked 2 Door Blue Ford) 09/09/2008 5919 XXXX Meadow Ct

1 Parking Citation (Illegally Parked White Ford Pickup) 09/10/2008 5813 XXXX Blvd (XXXX Lake)

Reported Crimes..........Date........Location
Theft from Auto (Unknown suspect gained access to victim’s vehicle and took 9mm Taurus hand gun.) 09/01/2008 5603 XXXX Blvd

Accomplishments

09/03/2008: Conducted foot patrol in the area of the lake. Previously reported concerns with LG&E lights not working correctly. On listed date, lights were working properly.

09/09/2008: Conducted foot patrol in the area of the lake. No problems and/or violations observed.

09/10/2008: Received call from board member reporting an illegally parked vehicle and possible problem at XXXX Lake. Responded to location within 3 minutes and found four people on lake property and illegally parked vehicle. One person showed ID that he was a XXXX resident and had fishing permit. Two juveniles were given verbal warnings. One person was cited for criminal trespassing as well as a citation for his illegally parked vehicle. He has a long list of prior criminal charges.

Concerns
09/07/2008: I have now made three calls for service to XXXX XXXX Place. Ms. XXXX states numerous times on different occasions that she believes the XXXX Board is out to get her and always refers to the women across the street from her. Her son was issued a parking citation today for his vehicle which was parked illegally in front of her residence. She said she does not want to play the race card, but she believes it is only because of the color of her skin.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Hey out there,
Does anyone else have this kind of formal arrangement with the Sheriffs department/city police/state police.

I know our security office for the Island has some recipicol agreements but I am not sure what they are. Our sccurity officers are licensed by the state/county to carry arms and give citations but they usually give HOA citations with a fine attached and if you want you can appeal to an HOA committee or elect to go to court.

I suppose there must be advantages to it and if it was mentioned here on Hoatalk I must have missed it. Interesting.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Robert,

My Florida HOA was a gated community which made our roads PRIVATE. We had the usual speeders and stop sign runners and with kids playing in the roads at times, the Board was petitioned to do something about it.

We hired off duty deputies thru the Sheriffs Dept to patrol and enforce traffic laws. This was done with a contract with the Dept. The deputies were all volunteering their time, not part of their regular duty time with the Dept. We paid them $25.00 per hour with 15 hours per week to come and go..

They came and left at their own discression, knowing from experience when they could catch the most violators. The BOD did not know when they were coming so we were just the same as all members of the community. They caught bunches, gave warings and wrote tickets. After about 4 months and many unhappy residents, we were able to cut their hours down in half. Then eventually, we had them just occasionally.

But because this is a gated community, they needed a contract with permission to come in to enforce.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaulaS5 on 08/12/2009 4:26 PM
That is great that your police officers talk to the homeowners where ours does not. For they thank they are better than every one else. But lets get off the subject of the police officers. I was asking about the HOA above state law. Our covenants are more relaxed than other HOAs around us. But for some reason our HOA is having more than our share of problems. When a BOD which is not a police officer got up and said they did not have to follow the State's Law everyone was really quite. For we have never been told this before and I thought everyone had to follow the State,County, or City Laws. Depending on where you live. I live in the County and yes I have talked to a county council man and was told that they will not get involved in a HOA.

Paula,

IF there are state HOA laws, then, YES, the HOA board must follow them. However, I don't believe SC has many HOA laws. I believe there are condo statutes (horizontal property regime act, I believe) and perhaps there are nonprofit corp laws. If you live in a planned community (single family homes) I don't believe there are any HOA state laws, aside from nonprofit corp laws. Also, I would think your county has ordinances which must be followed, however your CCRs can be more restrictive than those ordinances. When the topic of following state laws came up, exactly what laws were being discussed?

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Mary, without putting words in the original poster's mouth, I believe she indicated that the topic was about the definition of "commercial" vehicle.

Their documents are silent about a definition for commercial vehicle. And, if her docs are like most others, that means the Board may be able to clarify and define, for their organization, what that means.

They can START with the State's definition of commercial vehicle, but they are NOT restricted to ONLY THAT definition. They may also include, for example, any vehicle that has commercial logos and/or lettering.

So they could be able to say, "We don't have to follow the State law on commercial vehicles. We can consider the logo on your truck (or the lettering with the company's name) to be a commercial vehicle, too."

Meaning: We don't have to STOP at the State's definition of commercial vehicle. We can ADD TO that with clarification of what other vehicles we deem "commercial."

And then what the meeting attendees walk away thinking they heard (because they don't understand that the HOA docs can be more restrictive), "They just said they were above State law."

See? Classic miscommunication/misunderstanding interchange.

TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaryA1 on 08/12/2009 7:13 PM

I'm curious, as well. The non-police officer on the board gets up in the middle of a meeting and just declares "The HOA doesn't have to follow state law".??? What was going on before and after?

MY understanding, as an interested but completely NON-qualified person... EVERY person, corporation, business (for profit or not), church, school, ummm...are there other "entities" out there... EVERY entity must follow Federal/State/County/Municipal laws. Why would your HOA be exempt from following a state law? What laws does the non-police officer BOD member think your HOA is exempt from?

As an example of how my HOA doesn't have to follow a state HOA law... My state has CCIOA (from the Uniform Common Interest Ownership)...BUT, it came into effect AFTER my HOA had been established (we were "turned over" back in 1984). The law has wording in it that talks about what associations fall under CCIOA (mine does NOT). Also, in the laws, there can be wording that says something like "Unless the documents provide otherwise"... This means that if your documents say something else, your documents prevail and you don't have to follow that statute (or that PIECE of that statute).

So, while there are a few exceptions, without more information on your laws and documents, I can't say whether your HOA has to follow state law or not. I just ASSUME that the HOA does, unless you provide info otherwise.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Again, Tracie, I think the poster heard what she wanted to hear and misunderstood.

The HOA can have stricter regulations than the State does. Meaning, they don't have to JUST comply with State law, they can also make, and legally enforce, rules that are more restrictive.

That can lead one to incorrectly state or incorrectly "hear" that the HOA doesn't have to "follow" state law.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Michele & Tracy,

Some people just like to make these type remarks to sound important. All the more reason why board members should be educated in HOA laws. If I was a board member and someone made such a remark I would ask him to clarify what state laws he's talking about and go from there. In most instances the person making the remark doesn't know what he's talking about -- he just likes the sound of his own voice!!

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Michele,

This is what Paula had to say about commercial vehicles: "Yes we have a company truck and in the Covenants is states no Commercial Veh. This truck is a ford ranger which is not a Commercial Veh. there is nothing in the Covenants about lettering on a Veh."

I agree, the board needs to adopt a rule defining "commercial vehicle" since the covenants only say "no commercial vehicles". A Ford ranger may not be classed as a commercial vehicle, however, if it has business signage on it the assn can regard it as one. Paula refers to this truck as her "company truck" and alludes to it having lettering, which means my assn would regard it as a commercial vehicle, too. Just because the covenants don't mention signage on a vehicle (commercial or otherwise) that doesn't mean the board can't include that in their definition. If there are racks on the truck but no lettering it's still a commercial vehicle. In fact the racks are more bothersome than the lettering as the lettering can be covered up (in most instances, that is!).

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Mary,

You pointed exactly to what makes Paulas truck a commercial vehicle in the eyes of her HOA. The Ford Ranger, despite it's small size is still a truck and rack and signage make it definitely a commercial vehicle. Sorry Paula but facts are facts. My HOA went to court on this exact issue.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Correct, ladies.

And this is where the board member can claim, albeit it clumsily, that they don't have to "follow" state law.

They just don't have to be confined by State law, which was probably the better, more accurate way to say what was said.

So, they DO have to follow state law, which they did, but they can ALSO expand on it, which they also apparently did.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MicheleD on 08/13/2009 9:01 AM
Correct, ladies.

And this is where the board member can claim, albeit it clumsily, that they don't have to "follow" state law.

They just don't have to be confined by State law, which was probably the better, more accurate way to say what was said.

So, they DO have to follow state law, which they did, but they can ALSO expand on it, which they also apparently did.

perfect

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