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AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305
Posted:
We know that the management company comes up for renewal on 10 November.. We have advanced copies of the new contract with the management company and we noticed that the period is for 5 years... Is this normal?
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AlexL1 on 07/16/2009 8:28 AM
We know that the management company comes up for renewal on 10 November.. We have advanced copies of the new contract with the management company and we noticed that the period is for 5 years... Is this normal?

I would suggest somthing like the following:
TERM
The Association retains the Managing Agent to perform management services as stated herein beginning on ________________ and continuing thereafter under the same terms and conditions until renegotiation has been completed. Either party may terminate this Agreement, without cause, thirty (30) days after receipt of written notice.

GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
No, not normal and not advisable. Some MC will have a self renewing contract with a 30, 60 or 90 day termination (which is okay)...but 5 years I wouldn't sign.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Do your CC&R's have anything about MC contracts? Ours limits the term of any MC contract to: Any such management agreement shall not exceed three (3) years and shall provide for termination by either party without cause and without payment of a termination fee on ninety (90) days or less written notice.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
I'd recommend the best terms (as in shortest) the PM will accept (and why shouldn't they?). If we elected for a PM rather than our current self-management, 1 year with a 30 day for cause or 60 day w/o cause termination clause would be the "best" we'd agree to.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Alex,
Of all the posts so far, and taking into consideration some of the horror stories we have viewed about management contracts I will select Roger's in a minute. It is as simple as it can get, there are no wasted words and it gives both sides an out if it don't work out. I suspect it is just as important to a good management company to be protected as it is for the association to be protected. To me, his agreement provides both sides equal status.

I have often thought of why a manager or a management company would want to be involved with a bad board or a dysfunctional association and allow the relationship to continue on and even be renewed.
AnneH2 (Florida)
Posts: 82
Posted:
I wouldn't sign a one-year contract without a 30-day out provision. Five years- LOL! They must be joking. Out of curiosity, does it hold their rate throughout the life of the contract, or have a built-in annual increase?
AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305
Posted:
AnneH2: What do you think.... annual increases you asked... YES... with annual increases.. they must think we are nuts.
AndreaW4 (Illinois)
Posts: 2
Posted:
30 days is too short a time period, as the utility bills will all become delinquent. Let the management company continue to pay for 60 days, and in the mean time, get the addresses changed.
If you are happy with your management company, and you think you may keep them for the next five years anyway, watch for small-print regarding an annual percentage increase. And remember, you can always 'dicker' the cost.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AndreaW4 on 07/18/2009 7:59 PM
30 days is too short a time period, as the utility bills will all become delinquent. Let the management company continue to pay for 60 days, and in the mean time, get the addresses changed.
If you are happy with your management company, and you think you may keep them for the next five years anyway, watch for small-print regarding an annual percentage increase. And remember, you can always 'dicker' the cost.

We suggest different procedures:
a) never let the management company sign checks.
b) place the utilities on auto pay which eliminates being delinquent since some Boards of single family homes only meet quarterly.
c) the TERM we use provides the opportunity for the HOA to 'dicker'; a multi-year contract with no termination clause doesn't and unjustly favors the management company.
d) let any new management company handle all changeover accounting and "paperwork", including address changes, and require it be done within 10 days.
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
Does anyone use a management and a separate accounting company. The management company takes care of the property and accounting side pays bills and receives owners assessments. It may not be true, but it seems that the majority of problems revolve around how the property management side, not the collection and paying. Then, when you have to fire the management company you don't loose the continuity. Our HOA lost thousands (for a time) of uncollected assessments with the change over in homeowners auto pay and with the introduction of new coupon books.
JudyM5 (Ohio)
Posts: 36
Posted:
Alex - The operative word here is "contract". Contracts can be negotiated. If the BOD doesn't like something that has been included in the PMC contract, contact your PM's boss (probably a district manager) and ask him to meet with the BOD in a closed meeting to discuss the terms of the contract. Then, negotiate with him (or her) to change whatever you want changed. It's been my experience that most DM's will work with an Association in order to retain their business. The first thing that I'd say to the DM is "We know what XYZ Management Company is gaining from our signing your proposed contract. If you want us to sign a contract for more than one year (max. 3), the Association has to profit from making such a long-term commitment to your company. We'll consider signing a 2 or 3 year contract if you'll agree to not increase the management fees from their present level for the duration of this multi-year contract." More than likely, you'll get what you're asking for. Note: It is very important to have a 60 or 90 day "dissolution" clause in any PMC's contract.

In response to the comment about a PM having to work with a bad or dysfunctional BOD . . . yes, it's truly awful and very, very frustrating!! The best example that I've had to deal with was a BOD that sought a $300K loan in order to complete a number of necessary capital replacement projects. The projects and the contractors and their estimates had to be complete before the loan application could be made. In order to "hold" the estimate prices, the BOD voted to execute Intents To Proceed documents with each of the selected contractors. These agreements said, in essence, "your proposal has been accepted contingent upon receiving loan approval from XYZ Bank on or before 7/31/07." The BOD president signed all the contingent acceptance documents and they were mailed to the contractors. The total of the accepted contracts was $309,000. If you know anything about contract law, you know that what the BOD president signed were legally binding contracts.

The BOD president started getting cold feet in June. He started having truly "secret" meetings with some, but not all, of the other BOD members and talked 3 other BOD members into changing their minds about borrowing the money. These "secret" meetings were impromptu and not all BOD members were invited to attend them. Nor, were all BOD members notified in writing that these meetings were taking place.

The PM (me) explained to the BOD that the contingent acceptances that the BOD president had signed were indeed legally binding contracts, if XYZ Bank approved the Association's loan prior on or before 7/31/07. I also explained to them that if they failed to proceed with the contracts that the contractors had the right to sue them for "non-performance" and win. And, that the Association could end up paying these contractors the agreed on contract amount. Needless to say, I wasn't popular. In addition, from February through mid-June, the BOD had been very busy spending the reserve funds that they did have on repairs that could have waited, that by the time that they developed cold feet, the Association was literally broke! I explained to them that they no longer had any choice whether to close on the loan.

The BOD's solution was to have the Association apply for a loan through a different bank, thinking (mistakenly) that this would somehow make the contingently accepted contracts null and void. In the meantime, prior to 7/31/07, XYZ Bank approved the Association's loan, which meant that as soon as the loan was approved that the BOD had $309,000 worth of signed contracts.

The BOD refused to close on the loan with XYZ Bank. When the excluded Board members began to understand what had been transpiring in the secret Board meetings and started exercising their right to call for and schedule a special Board meeting, the president got mad and walked out in the middle of the first special meeting.

Chaos was the order of the day with this Board for the remainder of the year! They eventually did close the $300K loan with the second bank. Once they had the money, they didn't want to spend it!! I explained to them that if they didn't spend the money on the contracts that the BOD had executed, that they would be just using the money to make the monthly loan payments to the bank . . . plus another $100,000 . . . and wouldn't have gotten anything productive out of going to the trouble to borrow the money! They finally (in late October in Ohio)agreed to roof 4 of the 21 buildings that needed new roofs.

Needless to say, once word of this BOD's collective incompetence started to leak out into the community, there was a total change in BOD membership at the Association's annual meeting in December. During 2008, the new BOD used the loan money and completed all the projects that had been contracted during the prior year. Of course, during that 8 month delay, shingle prices had increased, etc., etc. The Association ended up spending more than the original $309,000 to get these projects completed. While all this work was being completed, the old BOD members were constantly trying to keep trouble stirred up. Their feelings were hurt that the majority of the owners did not want them to be on the BOD anymore and were very vindictive to the new BOD members and the PM. Two of the old BOD members even tried to get me fired, claiming that it was my fault that they didn't know what they were doing! Fortunately, I had reams and reams of documentation showing that they had been correctly and properly advised about their actions many, many times during their entire 12-month tenure on the BOD.

So, yes, I truly know what it's like to work with a bad and/or dysfunctional BOD. In fact, at the called meeting, I had to physically insert myself between the BOD president and another male Board member, who were both up out of their chairs yelling at each other with balled fists and puffed chests . . . you know, like two old roosters!!
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
A five year contract would be a huge mistake. Most PMs promise the moon but after about six months get complacent, if not worse. Try them out for a year and perhaps a clause can be put in to the effect that either party can continue for another year at whatever cost if both parties are satisfied. I think a 60 day out might be better. That would give the board time to have a meeting and to line up another company and get the records transferred. But do go over the contract with a fine tooth comb before signing it.
DavidS36 (Nevada)
Posts: 20
Posted:
I agree with the posts that say nothing longer than 12 months, plus a 30 day cancellation notice by either party. Be careful with the wording of the cancellation an be sure to include "with or without cause". If your board gives reasons (cause) of the termination, that might be giving the MC justification to correct and problems and delay the termination. When terminating the contract use the phrase "without cause" to ensure that your contract will not extend past the date you have set.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Our HOA had this rule (Which I put into place): No contracts longer than 1 year AND atleast 3 bids for each contract. Those bids could or would include the current contractor. Rule of thumb is NEVER sign a contract with a contractor longer than 1 year intervals. Even IF they offer a discount for multi-year renewals. It's just a bad idea.

Make sure you always have a clause for discontinuation of the contractor on either side of mininum 30 days. If it is cancelled without notice, then the amount of the whole contract is owed until the original end of the contract.

We had a 2 approved BOD officers and 1 managment representative signature system. We had an accountant company that wrote out our checks. They wrote the check and signed it. I would pick up the check, sign it, and find the other signee to sign it. We were registered signers at the bank. These are SPECIAL type checks that allow for this type of system. There is 3 signature lines on them. The checks are costly but worth it.

Former HOA President

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