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JeanW6 (California)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Our HOA is beginning to elimate turf in the common area to save water as mandated by our county water agency. We are looking at a 25% reduction being mandated personally as well as commercially.

The problem is some of this turf is part of a homeowner's view from their home and it does not seem fair to eliminate this view without providing something in its place.

Do you know of a process that insures the homeowner is not made to lose this part of their property value due to a move to be "greener?"

Thanks for anything you can offer.

Jean Wasp
Windmill Farms
Coatati, Calif.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Jean,
Youmight try looking up a court case in SC withing the last 6 or 6 years that happened on eith Sullivans Island or Isle of Palms in SC.
The case concerned the state not allowing a homeowner to bebuild his property on the beach after distruction in a storm. The court held that if the state restricted his property that would be a "Taking" of the property and the state would have to compensate the owner.
I would Google "legal Taking" to start.

I really think this is going to be one huge problem that probably has been handled in CA Courts.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Jean, I know this can be frustrating when something we're used to has to change at the whim of a politician. Even if your view were protected in your documents, most likely a change in the law would negate them. Most states implementing this type of policy are trying to "restore" plants native to an area as they can survive without lots of watering. I doubt very much that the state or the BOD wants large areas without any ground cover; as I recall you folks are prone to mudslides when it does rain. Look up xeriscaping ideas in a search engine for ways to beautify without turf; sometimes less is more.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
I don't remember the specifics, but do some searching of news articles in Arizona. Several HOAs are working on this same idea of removing grass in favor of low water desert landscape. Our HOA is definitely considering not over-seeding with winter grass (yes grass grows in the winter here) which would save about $30K each year. If I had my way, I would take it all out since we do live in a desert but I don't have my way. There are some that say that grass is an amenity and it would take a huge percentage vote to remove it.

If I were on the board, I wouldn't vote to compensate the owner knowing the few facts I know.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Robert,

Grass is an amenity? I would think that the huge watering bills would shake that theory to the ground. Arizona is one of the worst States in landscape water consumption. Let's just hope that the State wakes up soon and mandates a reduction in use of precious drinking water being used to keep your association lawn green. (Fl. and Ca. are the worst)

If you are sincere about this, start by doing some research into alternate landscape designs. Having had property in Lake Havasu, I saw awesome yards that did not have a single blade of grass in them. The problem with Arizona, California , Florida and Nevada is the huge number of eastern and midwest people who either retire there or have second homes. They take for granted that the landscape should be just like at home without considering that it is a different climate.
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 07/15/2009 6:52 AM

Robert,

Grass is an amenity? I would think that the huge watering bills would shake that theory to the ground. Arizona is one of the worst States in landscape water consumption. Let's just hope that the State wakes up soon and mandates a reduction in use of precious drinking water being used to keep your association lawn green. (Fl. and Ca. are the worst)

If you are sincere about this, start by doing some research into alternate landscape designs. Having had property in Lake Havasu, I saw awesome yards that did not have a single blade of grass in them. The problem with Arizona, California , Florida and Nevada is the huge number of eastern and midwest people who either retire there or have second homes. They take for granted that the landscape should be just like at home without considering that it is a different climate.

Reread what I said. I never said grass was an amenity, "some say". My choice is to rip it out and also take out the fountains that loose water and are another sink hole of $$$. But I am not King for the Day.

Of the 10 or so houses I can see down the street I can only see 1 that has a small grass pad. In the community of 800 there are probably 2% that have grass in the front. I use 0 water on all the lot I have in both front and back and I believe it is magazine quality.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Jean,

Even if your docs do protect property owners' views; I don't know that a grassy area would be considered a "view". A protected view normally means a view of the golf course, a mountain, the ocean, etc. I really think a h/o would have a real hard time proving that one!

Most HOAs in AZ (at least Maricopa CO.) have large water retention areas that are mostly covered with grass. I've seen a few that were granite but they're few and far between. Like Robert, if I had my way all those green areas would be replaced with granite. Has your BOD indicated what they plan to put in in place of the grass? IMO, granite with a few desert (or native) plants would be a wise choice. There are many beautiful flowering desert plants too. This would be as beautiful a "view" as a grassy expanse, IMO.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Hey Robert (not king for the day),

I have never been King for any Day either.

But from your posts you are missing out on a chance to really be King for a Day.

I take it your yard is an exception of 800 and your yard looks pretty damn good and don't use water. Your yard didn't happen over night and you did not know all you know about how to do what you ended up doing. If you personally could change 20 yards in your neighorhood to a natural landscape, one by one with the owners doing the work of course, what kind of a statement that would make? I think it would breed upon it'self and create a big positive change.

That's makes you KING FOR A DAY
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 07/15/2009 7:34 AM
Hey Robert (not king for the day),

I have never been King for any Day either.


In my association, I am the Queen! And not just for a day... I'd rather be a commoner than royalty, though...MUCH easier!!!
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

RobertG,

I did not mean to refer to you as the "grass is an amenity" group. It was a general use of the amenity mindset. From what you posted, you are the minority great group. Keep plugging away at it. Water conservation is the way of the future.
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 07/15/2009 7:34 AM
Hey Robert (not king for the day),

I have never been King for any Day either.

But from your posts you are missing out on a chance to really be King for a Day.

I take it your yard is an exception of 800 and your yard looks pretty damn good and don't use water. Your yard didn't happen over night and you did not know all you know about how to do what you ended up doing. If you personally could change 20 yards in your neighorhood to a natural landscape, one by one with the owners doing the work of course, what kind of a statement that would make? I think it would breed upon it'self and create a big positive change.

That's makes you KING FOR A DAY

You gave me credit which I don't deserve. Notice I said only 2% have grass. The norm is (as Mary states) to have gravel with drip irrigation for desert plants. Some folks don't know what a desert plant is, but at least they try. Grass in front yards is a rare exception. Back yards are different, I used artificial turf and mow it with a scissors.

No crown for me.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
RobertG,
Ok, I'll just keep your crown.

But tell me if the big argument there is the grass is an emenity, how about your artificial grass? Amenities, to me, would be pools, etc, etc, that were there when your place was ctarted, add to that any other facilities that you added that benefit the whole. I don't understand your issue to be private property, but common property. If you elect a board and they decide to put in some annual plants, is that an emenity? Who cares, the association paid for the flowers and legally put them in place and they will be gone in six months probably, the pool won't.

Seems your issue is should you spend the money to maintain the grass.
You don't spend the money the grass dies, just like the annual plants that you will plant next year, but they are not amenities anymore than the grass.
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 07/15/2009 9:18 AM
RobertG,
Ok, I'll just keep your crown.

But tell me if the big argument there is the grass is an emenity, how about your artificial grass? Amenities, to me, would be pools, etc, etc, that were there when your place was ctarted, add to that any other facilities that you added that benefit the whole. I don't understand your issue to be private property, but common property. If you elect a board and they decide to put in some annual plants, is that an emenity? Who cares, the association paid for the flowers and legally put them in place and they will be gone in six months probably, the pool won't.

Seems your issue is should you spend the money to maintain the grass.
You don't spend the money the grass dies, just like the annual plants that you will plant next year, but they are not amenities anymore than the grass.

Let me be clear. I am only actually talking about common area having grass, as Mary states it is very common even if all the lots have rock/desert. The grass came with the development just like the fountains. I brought up the idea of doing away with grass at annual meeting and people started protesting that they like the grass. Some say it is so kids can play (just grassy area no play structures), but that happens very infrequently and usually doing something that is not approved (like golfing).

I think the HOA members would rather pay >$100K in landscape/water for grass than have rock/natural. Too many people from other parts of the country that think that is necessary. I have heard board members adamant that the grass is an amenity since is was there to begin with and is an integral part of the development and people bought because it was there. I don't agree.

Normally we (in this part of the country) over-seed the summer bermuda with a rye grass that will live and stay green through the summer. That is a huge cost in just seed not to mention the extra watering to get it to grow. The board MIGHT be willing do not do this in some common areas this year but I wouldn't bet on it.

Maybe the answer is a LOT of green paint?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
RobertG,
Funny you should mention paint. In the lower southeast we have much the same problem about grass. Of course the golf courses over seed. We have some common grass, maybe 3/4 qacre total. We have painted it, actually sprayed it green in winter time. There is a product that will do this and also apply a fungicide at the same time. It may not be for your place but you actually can paint it.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
RobertG,

Funny you should mention green paint. There was a home outside my former HOA that had granite which the h/o had spray-painted an ugly dark green color. It was quite an eyesore.

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