Towing on Private Property.

Francesca,
Yoweee!!!!!!!
Let's get back to basics.
You are in a 90 unit condo. Are you absolutely sure your parking spaces are owned by the owner assigned to them? I am betting they are assigned and not part of the owners property.

But what really confuses me is you went to the Board and they never mentioned the property question. Everytime I think I have heard everything something like this comes up and this property thing is more interesting than the who parked where. Does you individual deed specify where this parking space you use is located? Who paints the numbers on the spaces? Could you change spaces with your neighbor?
You really need to have a board discussion about this parking business, and since it is such a common problem, I can't imagine it has never come up before.

I think we need some clarification about what we are talking about.

Anna,
I take exception to your; It's not like the "owner" of the space was being inconvenienced at that moment.

That is not germane to the issue. It is also a common reaction to how people view assigned parking spaces, especially absentee owners, renters and plain trespassers. That parking space for an owner that lives there permanently is no different than a space in the garage of a private dwelling. You would not think of parking in any garage in your neighborhood, why of of a sudden it is OK to park in a neighbors parking space because you determined he was not there and this somehow gives you the right to park there.

I also think the OP was way off base, from what we know, but I do not feel the use of an assigned parking space is up for some kind of arbitrary decision based on if it will inconvenience the person assigned that spot.

Robert, I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. Please understand I was in no way condoning someone parking in someone else's space whether they're there or not. Francesca did the correct thing by contacting the owner and asking if they were allowing someone to park in their space in their abscense. I was trying to point out that that this wasn't any type of emergency and she jumped the gun by not communicating with the owner of the car FIRST before having it towed.

A note and/or an explanation of the parking proceedures would have probably settled the issue right away.

Lordy... I towed it with the owners permission. Calm down. The note on the car was there the day before... please stop jumping to conclusions....

If the owner really does have complete control over the space, why didn't the owner have it towed? If it bothered the owner it is the owner's problem, not the HOA. Why did you get involved at all?

Mary is correct, there has to be more to the story to make any sense.

Thanks for your input Glen. I appreciate your following my posts. Frankly, that thought it iself scares the crapola out of me. I can barely remember what I posted a year ago but you can pull it up no problem. Why are you following me? Stalker.

FYI... the atty said we could tow it as this tenant was a squatter, the owner approved it and poof.. the car was gone.

Another tidbit comes out. When did you have time to call the attorney? I would think a squatter needs some to prove he is a squatter, not 1/2 day. This story still seems to be not completely told.

Well Ellen,
I guess we will have to say it is done different than where I am. I doubt that is the explanation.

In a condo as you know, your deed give you the right to occupy a specific area in the condo complex. You can buy and sell that right. Now suppose the place is torn down, what is left? Each owner is entitled to an apportioned share of the whole (what remains).
During the life of the complex and it is viable, inside the walls of your unit as described by the property description is your share. The rest is common property of some sort. Now your deed may reference your right to use a specific parking spot, but I ask again, who maintains that parking space, if it needs stripped, who pays that, marked,who pays that? Now as, I said You seem to do things differently. In your association with this parking space deed, have you ever seen a space number changed or moved. If you have more than one space for unit, who owns the guest spots. Does your deed describe the physical demensions of your parking space. Do you have a physical enclosed are for storage that you also have a deed to, such as a storage shed? Does the master deed in the planning office list and describe each individual parking space?

I am not arguing about it, I just want to know how you do it through the county and if the county bills you separate for this space.

As far as a right to a parking space where I live, that is declared in the Master deed and by-laws, but it is Limited Common Property, and is a part of the total complex, minus the value of the apportioned rights of the owners.

Francesca,

At first you said the new owner complained that his girlfriends car had been stolen. You told him it had been towed. Now you're saying the owner of the car was a "tenant" and a squatter and the owner approved the two. What will be hear next? I suggest you start over and tell us the REAL story or are you just making this up as you go along?

Mike,
I am glad you posted about this. Maybe you can tell the readers here the difference and how the differences are handled in the deed and the documents, I honestly don't know, but would like to.

It is not uncommon in resort coastal area to have twin complexes side by side and if we call one A and one B, and they are identical, could one have assigned parking spaces and the property involved is limited common and owned as part of the real property, by the association? Could the other have deeded spaces and each individual parking space belong to specific owners and they carry the deed? If so, who owns the land the parking space is resting on?
As I said I don't know. Are these questions part of what you refer to, when you state the hooded remark, we are too "harsh" here?

Mike, I have read your documents and have borrowed (stolen) some of them to adapt for my community and I know your owners can tow cars from their parking spaces. But unlike your community which has well thought out published rules and regulations the posters community is evidently making it up as they go; a sure invitation for disaster or a spot on the nightly news as one of "those HOA's".

This HOA by the posters own admission has no towing policy nor is it anywhere in the CC&R's just how was this person supposed to know that the car could be/would be towed? We don't have assigned parking spots but we do tow cars for a variety of reasons but before we do that we put four brightly colored notices (one on each side on the glass) on the vehicle stating the infraction, the day the notices were applied and giving them in most cases seven days to cure the violation or remove the vehicle themselves. We also under OH law have to post a sign stating - private property violators will be towed along with the name of the tow company. Most states I'm familiar with have similar laws.

I'm not endorsing nor excusing the girlfriend from parking in a space deeded to another. I have a problem with giving the person a half a days notice and then towing the car from a currently unused space. It seems petty and vindictive especially since the owner of the space didn't even know she'd been violated until this "helpful" Board member contacted her. These are her words:

My neighbor lives here only part time and currently is on vacation. I texted her and asked her this car was a friend. She didn't know who if belonged too! She called me and was very upset when I told her this car has been in and out last several days and you get the idea. Someone essentially took an assigned spot that was "empty". I called a local tow truck and had the unknown car towed after it sitting on our parking better part of a 1/2 day.

Now it would be one thing if the owner of the spot came home and found the vehicle in "her spot" and called the towing company. I can even see the poster calling for the tow at her neighbor's direction if after she posted a notice on the car and the car left and returned, in that case fair notice of the violation and what would happen if it continued would have been given.

Glen & Robert - I've towed a lot of cars, but because we (The Board, the PM and the Committee) all agree that towing is a drastic measure, we give everyone one warning (physically placed on the vehicle) (Every dog get's one bite). After that, they are towed without any notice if in violation. When it comes to the reserved(assigned) spaces, we completely stay out of the process and it's up to the assignee to call for tow. We only handle the Visitor spaces and fire lanes. There is a warning notice that the owner can use they wish, but everyone knows that they (the assignee) can authorize a tow at any time. Towing your neighbor's car is discussed on page 42 of "How to win friends and enfluence enemies".

Many of the older Condos have deeded spaces (they get a separate deed at settlement) and many of these (not all) can be sold without selling the condo. For tax purposes, one of pointed out that it seemed like a dumb idea to have deeded spaces and I agree, but that's another issue.

In this case, it seems like the poster may have implied that he had permission from the owner/assignee to tow the vehicle, but I agree that it appears that the Board did not any dogs in this fight.

Robert for more on towing and signs see HOA Board member being sued by condo renter.
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/77382/view/topic/Default.aspx

Whoa Robert....don't jump the gun. Typically, some condos are sold where there is open parking and reserved parking and you don't necessarily have to purchase a reserved space. No they don't sell spaces to folks that don't already own a unit. Usually, the reserved spaces might be underground or in a parking garage, but they might just be covered spaces where theres a covered canopy over the spaces in an open parking lot. You do get a separate deed for the space. I don't know of any state statue that is in conflict with any of this. Like you say, most communities just have reserves or assigned spaces that are considered limited common elements.

Mike,
That being the case as you state: You don't have to pay for a reserved space. If you elect to, you pay the association......right.
So lets not run around the bush anymore. You are paying for the right to have exclusive use of this space. Just as you can pay to have a golf cart storage shed in my condo parking garage. But you don't own the space and you don't have a deed and if you can sell anything when you leave it might be the rent you paid on the space.
If unit A has a reserved space and he sells, the buyer can elect not to have a reserve spot. So that reserved spot is either offered to someone else to rent by the regime or they can make it an unreserved spot because it is limited common property, and they have control over the property.

This whole misconception was about answering the question: Can a deed be issued for the parking space? The right to use that particular spot may pass from owner to owner but the deed don't and that right to that spot may command a higher sales value, but you don't buy the property that spot sits on in a condominium, nor do you get a deed.

Incidentally, if you live in a condo you pay an apportioned assessment. That apportionment is a reflection of the value of your particular unit. If that unit has, say; a bigger balcony than a twin next to it, the unit with the larger balcony will have a higher apportionment, but the balcony is limited common property and the regime pays for upkeep. The same would hold true for a reserved parking space that may travel with the property. But as you said, you don't have to pay the extra fee if you don't want to.
Which leaves, what happens to this supposedly deed for the space?

How can it be otherwise?

Just Bizarre.. plain bizarre. Opinions are like bum holes.. everyone has one.

F

Yup.

It's also pretty amazing to me (though not bizarre) that so many people have absolutely no level of self-awareness.

Do you ever actually read your posts?

Francesca,

So, unless the spaces are marked, how is anyone supposed to know what space belongs to who? And, since the spaces are private (whether owned by the condo or the individual members is a moot point), FL statute 715.07 regarding towing must be strictly adhered to. I've posted the pertinent section FYI below. I suggest you read it and pass it on to your board member. You all are in violation of the FL statute!!

"715.07. 5. Except for property appurtenant to and obviously a part of a single-family residence, and except for instances when notice is personally given to the owner or other legally authorized person in control of the vehicle or vessel that the area in which that vehicle or vessel is parked is reserved or otherwise unavailable for unauthorized vehicles or vessels and that the vehicle or vessel is subject to being removed at the owner's or operator's expense, any property owner or lessee, or person authorized by the property owner or lessee, prior to towing or removing any vehicle or vessel from private property without the consent of the owner or other legally authorized person in control of that vehicle or vessel, must post a notice meeting the following requirements:

a. The notice must be prominently placed at each driveway access or curb cut allowing vehicular access to the property, within 5 feet from the public right-of-way line. If there are no curbs or access barriers, the signs must be posted not less than one sign for each 25 feet of lot frontage.

b. The notice must clearly indicate, in not less than 2-inch high, light-reflective letters on a contrasting background, that unauthorized vehicles will be towed away at the owner's expense. The words "tow-away zone" must be included on the sign in not less than 4-inch high letters.

c. The notice must also provide the name and current telephone number of the person or firm towing or removing the vehicles or vessels.

d. The sign structure containing the required notices must be permanently installed with the words "tow-away zone" not less than 3 feet and not more than 6 feet above ground level and must be continuously maintained on the property for not less than 24 hours prior to the towing or removal of any vehicles or vessels.

e. The local government may require permitting and inspection of these signs prior to any towing or removal of vehicles or vessels being authorized.

f. A business with 20 or fewer parking spaces satisfies the notice requirements of this subparagraph by prominently displaying a sign stating "Reserved Parking for Customers Only Unauthorized Vehicles or Vessels Will be Towed Away At the Owner's Expense" in not less than 4-inch high, light-reflective letters on a contrasting background.

g. A property owner towing or removing vessels from real property must post notice, consistent with the requirements in sub-subparagraphs a.-f., which apply to vehicles, that unauthorized vehicles or vessels will be towed away at the owner's expense."

You state this has nothing to do with the HOA but yet you made the call. I still don't understand why you are in the middle of this. Doesn't the homeowner know how to make the call and this would have been just between the homeowner and the tow-eed?

ncesca,
Look up the legal meaning of the word "Deed". See if it conforms to what you think it means?

Robert,

Since you want precision I should have said Warranty Deed and it is not a contract. Simply put, it is where one person transfers property to another. Only the owner(s) sign a Warranty Deed so there is no way it is a contract. A contract must have two parties signing it. I've done hundreds of real estate closings re condos, primarily in Boca Raton and I can assure you the parking space was transferred along with a particular unit.

Robert,

What am I going to do with you? (1) The "regime" (and I hate that word) has nothing to do with the transaction between a buyer and seller. In the past the board interviewed the buyer to see if they were acceptable, though I'm certain many laws now prohibit this. You don't want to argue? Reread your post..."no way you are going to convince me".."not the creation of a property deed"...

I don't need to go to the courthouse to see my Warranty Deed, I have the original,recoded one but this is 2009 and it could be accessed online.

You seem like a very nice man but I think you give a lot of "iffy" advice, particularly in states whose laws you know little or nothing about. I just hope you don't steer some people the wrong way. I've had 30 years legal experience, many as a real estate paralegal in the State of Florida but I try to let folks know this is how it is in Florida. I don't speak to South Carolina laws.

You say this is as far as you are going to take this..fine but if you change your mind why not start a new thread "Parsing words" or something similar.

Anna,

I couldn't agree more. I think it is so important for posters to say this is the way it is in my state, or something similar. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.