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RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
I received the following in a newsletter from one of the local HOA attorneys who I trust. Since this subject has been discussed before I thought it might contains some points of interest. Sorry for the long post. I hope I have given the proper credit for copyright.

Should the Association File a Defamation Lawsuit? by Beth Mulcahy, Esq.

Discussions of controversial community association issues can turn into insults, name-calling and allegations of evil intent. They are not uncommon forms of expression for an owner expressing dissatisfaction with board policies and the directors who adopt them. These verbal assaults can be sharp-edged, may be inaccurate and are typically intensely personal. But are they also defamatory? Directors sometimes think so, and seek to file suit against the offending owner to halt their tirades.

Demands for legal action usually come in response to something an owner writes rather than to a public statement made. It is flyers, e-mail communications circulated within the community or a website established by a dissident owner to tell “the truth” about how the association is being mismanaged that typically trigger the calls from directors asking our firm to file a defamation law suit on their behalf. The desire to fight back is understandable; no one likes to be called names, have their intelligence questioned or their motives questioned. However, the legal framework makes it very difficult for directors however wronged they may feel, to win a defamation claim.

The Legal Framework

To understand how difficult it is to win a claim, it is helpful to understand some of the legal distinctions and standards of proof the court will make and require. First, there is a difference between slander, which is spoken, and libel, which is written or otherwise communicated in a permanent form – the e-mail messages noted above, statements carved in the clubhouse wall, spray-painted on a door or plastered on a billboard.

Courts also distinguish between defamation claims filed by “private persons,” and claims filed by public figures, which are far more difficult to prove. That distinction is important because courts in many jurisdictions have held that association directors, by virtue of their leadership role in the community, inject themselves voluntarily into public debates, and so qualify as “limited public purpose” figures. As a result, in order to prove defamation, directors must show not only that statements are untrue (the base-line requirement for private individuals), but also that the statements were made maliciously – that is, that the individuals responsible knew the statements were false or made them with “reckless disregard” for their truth. Additionally, the evidence directors present to prove malice must be “clear and convincing.”

That is a tough legal standard – not as tough as “beyond a reasonable doubt” (required in criminal cases), but much higher than the “preponderance of the evidence” standard applied to other civil claims. “Preponderance of the evidence” requires only that the scales tip, however slightly, more one way than the other. It does not have to be a lot — 51 percent will do. Beyond a reasonable doubt pushes the scale to 95 percent, while “clear and convincing” falls somewhere in between – around 75 percent.

For an owner fighting a defamation claim, truth is an absolute defense, but they do not have to prove that the statements were absolutely true – only that they were “substantially” true — or that they were not aware the statements were untrue, or had no reason to question their veracity. Under this legal framework, it is much easier for an owner to deny allegations of malice than it is for directors to prove them.

How much damage was caused?

Simply proving that statements were libelous or slanderous isn’t enough; directors pursuing a defamation claim must also prove that they have suffered “actual damages.” These may include monetary damages or harm to their personal reputation, personal humiliation, mental anguish and suffering or physical suffering.

Establishing monetary losses will be particularly challenging. It is rare that “damage” from defamatory statements would spread beyond the boundaries of the community association. Allegations about poor decision-making or poor business judgment are unlikely to affect a board member’s sales at his/her retail store, or lead to a demotion or the loss of a job.

Non-monetary claims are more subjective and somewhat easier to establish. Directors might claim, for example, that statements caused them emotional distress, forcing them to seek therapy for anxiety or medical treatment for insomnia or stomach ailments. But how much long-term psychological damage did the accusations of mismanagement or stupidity really cause? How much weight or sleep did you lose, how much was attributable clearly and exclusively to the defamation, and how much compensation should you receive? Judges and juries are likely to be skeptical in their judgments and stingy in their awards.

Concern about the constitutional right of free speech will make judges in particular wary of suits that seem designed to quash dissenting views or that might have that effect. For all of these reasons, directors seeking to pursue a defamation claim face a steep uphill legal climb. These actions should not be undertaken lightly and usually, they should not be undertaken at all.

Beyond Reasonable Criticism

The only exception to that advice is if the offending statements involve criminal activity of some kind — for example, allegations that a board member has stolen funds or committed fraud. These statements go far beyond anything that might be construed as reasonable criticism; their truth could be established easily (either the money was stolen or not); the owner responsible would be hard-pressed to argue convincingly that they had no reason to question the truth of the allegations they made; and the reputational and professional damage to the directors targeted could be considerable. But even in the most dysfunctional associations, the statements likely to offend board members rarely rise (or descend) to this level, and a libel action is unlikely to be the most effective response.

Encourage Open Discussion

The angry outbursts that make directors feel defamed usually come from owners frustrated because they have not had an opportunity – or don’t think they have had an opportunity – to express their views, air their criticism, or offer their suggestions. Responding by suing these owners is not only likely to be futile; it is likely to backfire, sending a message to all owners, not just the offending ones, that the board does not tolerate criticism or dissent. This is precisely the opposite of the message that boards should try to convey.

Creating an atmosphere that encourages open discussion, including criticism, can go a long way toward defusing tensions before they erupt in angry accusations and personal verbal attacks. Scheduling periodic open forums where owners can discuss their concerns, setting aside a designated time for owners to speak at board meetings and creating an “owners’ corner” on the association’s website are some of the strategies boards can use to encourage input from owners and to make them feel their opinions are welcome and valued.

Develop a Thick Skin

If a director decides that he/she has been defamed and insists on suing the owner or owners responsible, should the association pay the legal bills? The answer is not clear. You could argue that this is really a personal battle, which the offended board member —who, perhaps, is too easily offended — should fight and fund alone. However, you could also argue, reasonably, that the action is related to service on the board and thus should be an association expense. The safest course in this case would be to have the full board of director’s vote on and approve the expenditure of funds.

However, you do not want to get to this point in the first place; with only very rare exceptions, boards simply should not pursue defamation claims. Like elected officials in the public sector, association directors must accept criticism – even nasty, uncivil and unfair criticism – as part of their job.

MULCAHY LAW FIRM, P.C.
E-mail: [email protected]
Copyright 2009 by MULCAHY LAW, P.C., All Rights Reserved
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
This is a great read. I'm copying it for posterity. Thanks, Robert.
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 07/01/2009 8:22 AM
This is a great read. I'm copying it for posterity. Thanks, Robert.

You can easily get all Beth's past newsletters/advice column through her website. Tell her I sent you if you want.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Thx Robert! I did sign up awhile back but have nevered received them. I'll sign up again. You know she's related to Curtis E.?
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 07/01/2009 8:38 AM
Thx Robert! I did sign up awhile back but have nevered received them. I'll sign up again. You know she's related to Curtis E.?

How?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Robert.
I agree with Mary. This is a great post and well worth the read and also as a reference. It was thoughtful to think of us, and much appreciated here.

Do you have any read about whether the Manager or PM would be considered in the same light as a director, in that their position does put them at the mercy (so to speak) of any unhappy homeowner.
Given a case where the Board was aware some owners were unhappy with a Manager performance (they presented their complaints, as a group, to the Board) and the Board never responded, then this group sent out a petition to force the Board to deal with their concerns, what happens if the manager files suit against the homeowners?

How much "evidence" does the person(people) being sued have to produce and who weighs the evidence? Does all this become an internal affair to be settled? As you can read between the lines as well as others, you can see how complicated this could get about who could or should sue whoever.

GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
RobertG12,

You could not have posted this at a better time.
Yesterday, I received a summons. The PM from my association is suing me and a neighbor for libel for a petition seeking her termination. Here is a copy of the petition and some of the summons, with the names XXX out.

As The XXX Condominium Associations’ Property Manager, XXX XXX has given ample reason for the XXX Condominium Unit Owners to request that the Condominium Board terminate the Employment Agreement between the Association and XXX XXX.

-XXX XXX has repeatedly, knowingly or unknowingly caused the neglect of the enforcement to XXX Condominium By-Laws.
-XXX XXX has repeatedly, knowingly or unknowingly allowed the Condominium Board President to misinform Home Owners and Board Members on the reasons for the lack of Reserves The XXX Condominium has endured.
-XXX XXX has knowingly or unknowingly failed to oversee the upkeep and maintenance of The XXX Condominium Association to the standards set by our By-Laws.
-XXX XXX has knowingly or unknowingly preyed upon the ignorance of Home Owners and Board Members alike to maintain her position as Property Manager.
-XXX XXX has knowingly or unknowingly used her position as Property Manager to attempt the intimidation of Home Owners.

We the Members of The XXX Condominium Association , are petitioning the termination of XXX XXX from the position of Property Manager of The XXX Condominium Association.

Name/Date Address Telephone/Email
Print and Signature

The PM is suing for 6 counts of libel @ $50,000.00 each, compensatory damages in the amount of $300,000.00, and punitive damages in the amount of $300,000.00, jointly and severally against the defendants, and for such other and future relief as the nature of the case may require as the court deems fit.

For each count of libel, she stated "The statement was made knowingly and maliciously."
In the summons, she states that she "is not a public official or person voluntarily cast in the public eye."

She also stated that she has "suffered anxiety and stress, and has resigned her position as property manager, as a result of the publication of the statements in paragraph 6"

Paragraph 6 reads: The preamble of the petition reads, "As The XXX Condominium Associations’ Property Manager, XXX XXX has given ample reason for the XXX Condominium Unit Owners to request that the Condominium Board terminate the Employment Agreement between the Association and XXX XXX."

"The written statement in paragraph 6 above is libelous per se as the statements falsely speaks of XXX XXX, imputing to her unfitness to perform the duties of her employment, and imputes a want of integrity in the discharge of the duties of such employment."

"The written statement in paragraph 6 above is also libelous per se in that it falsely speaks of XXX XXX so as to prejudice her in her profession."

Each point of the petition, has proof to back up as true.
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
Grace....I wish you luck....Please keep us posted. I think this is the FIRST post of someone actually being SUED. There are always a lot of threats but your's (I think) if the first one we're aware of.

Your post will be valuable information for us all.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Anna,
I will definitely keep you guys posted. It is the least I can do in return for all of the help and support all of you have given.
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Grace,

Have you contacted your D&O insurance provider? And if so, what has it advised as to the way ahead (in general terms)?

Good fortune in your defense against this suit.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Good suggestion John,

I know from past posts Grace would ap[preciate any replies or personal experiences about libel, etc.

John, do you care to elaborate a little, what are your suggestions?
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Grace, are you a board member? From what you posted it isn't obvious that the PM is suing the board or the HOA, just some owners who circulated the petition.
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Robert,

At this juncture, the first thing is contacting possible insurers re: defense and indemnity. But your post points to my assuming some items I shouldn't have, so let me try again.

D&O only covers the BOD, or possibly employees acting on their behalf.

If Grace is not on the BOD, I'd next look at the general liability policy of the HOA to see if coverage is available. Best bet is to contact the agent, relate the situation, and see what agent thinks.

Things get dicier if neither of those are in play. Personal homeowners insurance would be the next place to check. As the suit is phrased as claiming an intentional tort (libel), I'd guess it might not be covered. However, if one has a personal umbrella policy, that might scoop up the claim, at least as to defense. Again, checking with the agent is the most efficient way to gain info.

Hope that helps.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
John,
Your response is much appreciated. For my money, you know more than I about this stuff. No doubt you are knowledgeable.

My personal interest in Grace's post aside, I think this is a great opportunity to observe an actual case in progress. Grace has offered to keep us posted and I would ask all if they think this would be a productive way to broaden all our worlds in HOA life.

I don't want to take this where it should not go, not that I know where that is, but just a suggestion if any are so minded they may like to contribute for purely academic reasons. No HOA's are immune from this kind of stuff I would imagine.

We could be like that woman with a thousand heads, or was that the one that had snakes for hair.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
John,

As you say, because Grace is not a board member, the HOA's D&O ins would not cover her. But why would you suggest she check the HOA's general liability policy? Grace is not a board member, why would her actions be covered by any HOA ins policy? What I'm wondering is if the PM will be covered by the HOAs ins?
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 07/02/2009 12:12 PM
John,

As you say, because Grace is not a board member, the HOA's D&O ins would not cover her. But why would you suggest she check the HOA's general liability policy? Grace is not a board member, why would her actions be covered by any HOA ins policy? What I'm wondering is if the PM will be covered by the HOAs ins?

Unless someone knows or Grace responds, knowing if she is a board member is significant to the issues we discuss. The reason I asked is exactly what Mary points out. If she is not a board member then D&O or HOA insurance of any kind no longer applies.

Even though my best knowledge of the law is Perry Mason, I would add that HOA liability would only go so far as an agent of the HOA. I would not think an independent contractor (vendor) like a PM has such a status, even though the PM may represent the HOA as agent for some legal documents for notice.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
I wonder:

Is this a petition to bring this to a vote? Or can this person be removed simply with a petition signed by X number of people. Can a member at large circulate the petition?

People had a choice of whether or not to sign it.

The arguments used to persuade people to sign the petition hopefully had some factual backup.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
To all,
it seems to be clear Grace was not a Board Member. In a capsule, some neighbors were concerned about some of the actions of a Manager, not a PM in that the manager was independent. I have no idea if she was licensed or if that was necessary, nor do I know anything about her qualifications, if any, were needed. I know right now in SC it is pretty much a private individual can be hired as a Manager by the Board. Our documents set no qualification but do now set Job description and duties, I believe.

These concerned neighbors got together and went to a Board meeting and expressed there concerns. For what ever reason no resolution was reached so they decided to obtain signatures and circulated the petition that was composed by some of these neighbors. The manager took exception and you all have read the summons. I think that is pretty close to what happened.

Mary does pose an interesting question as to insurance coverage that may come into play under a HOA policy. My best guess is that would not be the case. The manager is paid to perform duties assigned by the Board, if the manager would be covered in this case, then if a counter claim come about the suit would have to be against the Board and the manager, because the manager does the boards wishes.

The matter of who signed the petition has not been made a part of the summons. I think there was one other owner charged, for whatever reason. Susan brings up a valid point because it would seem significant who signed the petition.

The purpose of the petition, in my understanding was to put the Board on notice of named homeowners that felt this matter should be addressed by the Board. I don't think there was any intend to sue anyone or degrade anyone, simply a matter of some homeowners acting as the documents probably require. It is the Homeowners duty and responsibility to protect the association from harm and since the initial approach to the Board was rebuffed, the natural progression of events would be to force a discussion in an open meeting by circulating a petition.

That's what I think happened and I could be a little wrong or a lot wrong, I will stand corrected if necessary, I am just offering an explanation.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
First, I must say that all of you are incredible!

One minute, I am smiling knowing how everyone pitches in to help, the next my eyes are filling with tears knowing how much everyone pitches in to help.

Thank you all for your encouraging words, your help, your time and support.

JohnK3,
I am not a board member (trying for years to get on) so D&O is not available to me.

RobertR1,
Thank you, yes, I would and do appreciate any replies.

RobertG12,
The PM is suing my neighbor and myself, jointly and severally. I guess she figures just incase one is not involved.

Johnk3
Is there any way the general liability policy of the HOA would cover it? Who would I ask, I do not know who the agent is.? (the PM is the only one that has contact with the Ins. Comp.)
I did call my ins. comp., My policies do not cover it. They do not even know what kind of Attorney I should contact.

RobertR1,
I do not know the lady with the thousand heads, but I feel like I have met a group with a thousand hearts.

Mary,
You have raised more question. Could the association cover this personal law suit?

Susan,
Yes, the petition would be presented to the board for their consideration once the signatures need would be obtained.
As the board hired the PM, only the board can terminate. The petition is to show the board how the Homeowners feel.
Yes, the statements in the petition are factual and I have ample proof to each point on it.
I do believe that is why the PM wanted the copies of my tape recordings of the meetings.

RobertR1,
You are correct. You summed it up better than I could.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Grace:

I have been through one lawsuit with a former MC. They sued and lost.

Currently involved in two others. In one I was sued personally as a Board member.

I have also been involved in several criminal matters before the courts along with a medical malpractice matter.

And several small claims court actions.

My advice retain a good lawyer if possible who specializes in the defense of civil matters if your financial standing allows. If not perhaps you could be represented or at least advised by some legal aid service just to review the case and its merits.

Anyone can file a suit the important thing is to determine whether the case has any legal standing. And I would suggest that you are careful when taking or acting on any legal advice presented on this site involving this matter.

Sounds like their request for damages is in the serious neighborhood so I would suggest your attorney direct your actions and activities.

Then I would strongly advise you cease from posting any information pertaining to or involving this matter. ( I am sure any attorney would suggest the same.)

Best of luck to you.

GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
JonD1,
Thank you for your insight and well wishes.

All,
I will keep you in my head and my heart.

Please continue to add insight as others and I shall continue reading.

Regards,
Grace
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Even though this is an interesting case, the point is that since Grace is not a board member then I think this issue is not relevant to HOA discussions. This is a company employee that takes exception to what an individual has written.

I agree completely with the advice to get good representation. Also, as I have stated other places, any words that Grace has placed here could be used in a court of law. This is not a place to expose anything that might be of value to the opposition.

As my original post indicates, deformation suits are much different that the average law suit. Most suits are an interpretation of a law, however deformation is a intangible value with shades of grey and largely based upon opinion.

I wish Grace success and hope we can have other cases examined.
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
I feel it IS relevant to HOA discussions. Grace is a MEMBER of her Association and this is quite interesting to read what happens when concerned owners take an active role in how their association is being managed.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Anna,
I have no idea how you can read this post and say the issues are not relevant to HOA's.
Granted, don't attempt to try the case here on Hoatalk, that wopuld be wrong, and maybe harmful.

But, at some point this case will be history. Is it then relevant to Hoatalk discussions. We quote cases all the time here and try to establish relevance. I wonder what the HOA involved feels about relevance. Any BOD members on here like to comment? How would your Board react if you happened to be the HOA?
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
RobertR1---I said this thread IS relevant to this site. RobertG12 said it is NOT relevant and I was stating I disagreed with him.

I find this topic facinating. Am I reading something wrong here???
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnaD2 on 07/03/2009 1:38 PM
RobertR1---I said this thread IS relevant to this site. RobertG12 said it is NOT relevant and I was stating I disagreed with him.

I find this topic facinating. Am I reading something wrong here???

I may have left out a word or two. My point is that I don't think it is relevant to the original post which talks about suits between someone and an HOA or board member. There is no board member being sued. I don't think the PM being the "sue-er" has any bearing on the HOA. Thus I don't believe it is relevant to this discussion.

I am interested in the outcome, but not as something that relates to my original post.
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
Oh, now I understand what you're saying. That happens here a lot....threads get hijacked or off on tangents. We probably should have started a new one.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Sorry about that.
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
No worries, Grace. As you can see--we're interested in what you're going through. It just sort of snowballed....we all do it.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
RobertG12,

I stay confused so don't anyone take offense but RobertG12 posted:

I may have left out a word or two. My point is that I don't think it is relevant to the original post which talks about suits between someone and an HOA or board member. There is no board member being sued. I don't think the PM being the "sue-er" has any bearing on the HOA. Thus I don't believe it is relevant to this discussion.

I am interested in the outcome, but not as something that relates to my original post.

************************************************

Isn't Grace's issues between someone and a HOA member? Grace is the HOA member and the PM is the someone. You stated the possibilities of either an HOA Member or a Board Member. Now if you meant the HOA as an entity and the Board as a separate entity, which I think you meant, I don't see how you can cleave the Board from the HOA. Wouldn't it be safe to assume the HOA is the Board and the Board is the HOA? Extend that to the fact the HOA is really the members.

I quess I don't see the separation of the Board and the HOA and the Members. I betcha if a Board Member was being sued he would expect the insurance paid for by the members to represent him. I don't mean to say I have a problem with the Board being protected, I support that completely.

Maybe I am over the line and this is just a matter of semantics.

RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 07/03/2009 3:06 PM
RobertG12,
Isn't Grace's issues between someone and a HOA member? Grace is the HOA member and the PM is the someone. You stated the possibilities of either an HOA Member or a Board Member. Now if you meant the HOA as an entity and the Board as a separate entity, which I think you meant, I don't see how you can cleave the Board from the HOA. Wouldn't it be safe to assume the HOA is the Board and the Board is the HOA? Extend that to the fact the HOA is really the members.

I quess I don't see the separation of the Board and the HOA and the Members. I betcha if a Board Member was being sued he would expect the insurance paid for by the members to represent him. I don't mean to say I have a problem with the Board being protected, I support that completely.

Maybe I am over the line and this is just a matter of semantics.


I agree that normally the board and HOA (as an entity or corporation) are treated as one. People sue a company and then add the people who run the company to the suit. Both should be protected by HOA insurance of some type if they are smart enough to carry such. I also would agree that members become a part of suit if the board agrees (usually with the consent of the voting members) to sue someone else. Still it is the corporation that is the plaintiff, not the individuals. This not the case unless I really missed Grace's posts.

What I am saying is that Grace is neither a member of the board or the HOA entity thus HOA insurance does not apply. Nor does the original post which is about what HOA boards should do with deformation suits have anything to do with her specific case. I don't seem to remember Grace saying anything about the board getting involved in the petition activities nor are any included in suit.

Just because Grace is a member of the HOA, then there is nothing to imply the HOA is involved nor cares. If Grace also belongs to a Baptist Church, then would the church also be implicated since she is a member in the same way as she is for the HOA? I don't think so.

I also don't think the PM is anyway related to the HOA in this context. The individual is an employee of a company that just happens to have a contract with the HOA.

I think you might be thinking too much about the subject of the suit, not the parties involved.

I guess that is about $.03 worth.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
RobertG,
I doubt anything I say will bear on who does what in this suit, and that seems proper.

If you follow the chain of events as I understand them, this petition by concerned owners was formally presented to the Board. I believe the Board took no action or offered any explanation or resolution to this appearance of the owners before the Board.

Does this mean anything in this instance, I haven't a clue, but it is information to our readers that all kinds of things happen, and the responsibility of the owners to protect the association extends beyond the Board and to all owners. How this sits in a court of law, I don't know and would guess other factors would be considered.
As the Board meeting is an official function so is the participation of the owners in the function. Does this weigh in this case, I don't have a clue. I know the insurance normally carried by HOA does not unless the Board is brought into the suit. Then of course the insurance would be active. At this point does it then extend to the owners involved in the suit, don't know that either.

Maybe you are on target and this is a simple case between twe individuals and those named in the suit.

As always, just an opinion.
EverettC (Maryland)
Posts: 90
Posted:
RobertR,

According to Grace's post, the petition has not yet been submitted to the board. (See her comments to Susan contained in the 7/3, 2:43 AM post:

"Susan,
Yes, the petition would be presented to the board for their consideration once the signatures need would be obtained."

In addition, according to the complaint as quoted by Grace, the PM has resigned --- i.e., before the petition has been submitted.

I find those 2 factors extremely interesting. From a legal perspective, I do not see how Grace's attements in the petition could have caused any damages, even if those statements were libelous, since the PM took it upon herself to resign without allowing the board to act. In addition, the PM's act of resigning may be viewed by the court as an admission that the statements were at least substantially true.

RobertG,

It is my understanding that the PM is/was a direct employee of the HOA, not of a separate management company. Didn't that put the board in the difficult position of taking sides between their employee or a group of homeowners? I think it did and I think the HOA board should care about the lawsuit. I am a board member of my HOA and I would not want to be caught in this crossfire. (The PM's resignation may have taken them off that hook).

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Everett and all,
What webs ye mortal weave!

I appreciate your comments Everett. It does appear the sequence of events are important, and of course, this is one of those, "you have to be there" seems important.

I just have a lot of trouble placing blame on anything except criminal activity in HOA internal matters. It seems to be accepted that many states consider matters within the HOA to be resolved in the HOA. If this is important enough to override any charges brought before the states courts, the judge may not even hear the case or could elect to direct the parties to go back and resolve the issue.

I certainly agree with Everett, if the matter has been brought to the Boards attention and part of the concern was the conduct of an employee to-wards members of the association, that involves the Board. Especially if the concerns suggested to the Board, harm was being done to the association.

Or maybe I am taking a leap here Everett?

I also wonder if a circulating petition to be presented to the Board (I assume there is nothing that forbids homeowners from petitioning the Board) is a public document. Can the charges made in the petition be considered nothing but questions regarding job perform ace of an employee, submitted by members of the association and re questioning the Board to take some action.

It raises many questions in any event.
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Insurance contracts are very detailed and often tough to decipher by those of us who have legal training and experience with them, much less by civilians who have neither. What and who and when and how coverage comes into play depends on the specific language, which varies by company, attached riders, etc. Again, best to contact the agent for a first take. If that isn't positive, next would be a defense attorney.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
I think most would agree on one thing John. That is; it is eyeopening to realize that when a suit is filed against someone else, and the issue stems from an HOA, it sure can bring up a lot of considerations. I do not envy Grace one bit. Anyone got a guess on the percentage of these kind of claims actually go to trial. If civil litigation as a whole is any indication, I suspect only a very small # of these cases ever reach the courtroom. I was a sort of a character witness at a civil trial not too long ago and the whole time was spent sitting in the courtroom watching the opposing lawyers meet in a little room in the back. After an hour or so of this, they came out and told each party an agreement had been reached and we all went home.
EverettC (Maryland)
Posts: 90
Posted:
RobertR,

According to a 2004 Dept of Justice study of the nation's 75 largest counties, in 2001 only 3 % of the cases filed went to trial. That represented a total of 11,908 cases that went to trial, of which a mere 94 or 95 (one number is used in one table, the other in another table) were classified as slander/libel cases. Of that number the plaintiff won in 39 cases (41.5%).
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Damn Everett,
It's just like having your own little Wikipedia around here. I don't think we every had one of them before. Anyway your ability to come up with facts and figures is really a great improvement to the site, and I know appreciated by all, as is your legal contributions. No, I can't say "legal" that way, so you know what I mean anyway. Oh, I got it, your contributions when legal questions are relevant.

Thank you.
EverettC (Maryland)
Posts: 90
Posted:
Information of all kinds abounds online. It's just a question of knowing how to locate it. Google helps a lot. (And knowing who to believe and who not to.)

BTW, there is a more recent report (issued 2008 for 2005 cases) that says pretty much the same thing - more cases filed, more trials, more libel/slander cases, slightly fewer %age of plaintiffs winning) but same 3% of civil cases filed end up going to trial.

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