Hired person to do odd jobs around HOA

Our Board of Directors hired one of our homeowners to do odd jobs around our HOA Community. These jobs include clean-up of trash in other than trash pick-up areas, sweeping the curbs, leaf pick-up in Fall, trimming of tree branches, changing of lightbulbs on light poles, etc. He is not insured, and two of us voted against hiring him, but we were out voted by the rest of the BOD. What could be the repercussions of this decision on the rest of the Association and the Management Company (who know he isn't insured).

We have two handymen (both are very good!) One was hired through the management company, so that took care of his insurance issues. We consulted with our association insurance regarding the other (he's also a resident) and they required a waiver from him, which he happily signed. We're very careful about what both of them do so we don't open the association up to liability (e.g. they don't climb anything).

If this handyman is doing simple stuff like cleaning up trash, it doesn't sound like a problem to me, but you really should consult your association's insurance carrier - quickly. Otherwise, if, heaven forbit, he gets injured, he may come after the Assocation for damages(e.g. while trimming tree branches, another one fell on him and broke his arm).

You may also want to rethink your contract with your management company - shouldn't they have warned you of potential liability (our PM spoke with the insurance company first before we even proceeded with hiring the second one, and at our recent meeting, she showed us waivers approved by the insurance company that we'll be using in the future).

Thank you for your responses.

This homeowner is the boyfriend of the BOD Secretary, and he threatened to sue the Association a while back, when he changed the exterior of his house without prior approval. Somehow he won that argument, and I wasn't on the BOD at that time, so don't know all the details.

I am in total agreement that there has to be a contract, and insurance in place. He uses his personal vehicle to do the jobs. The Management Company is aware of the problems that there have been with him in the past, and I believe they are aware that he doesn't have insurance for this sort of venture.

I talked to an independent insurance agent about the odd jobs that the Association wants him to do, and was quoted $1500 per year, especially important when trimming and cutting down whole trees (with a chain saw). I'm hoping that my "NO" vote will save me from a lawsuit, if something happens.

Anne, Myself and another Board member were out-voted by the other 5 Board members, to include the girlfriend. What can I do now? I wonder how the other residents would feel if they knew that he wasn't insured?? I've already said my piece by voting against hiring him without insurance or a waiver of liability.

Barbara,
The more I read this thread, the more I am convinced there is a lot of issues going on in the background.

If you can step out of this mud puiddle with clean shoes, and you feel you association is in danger. I would prepare a statement to this effect with suppporting evidence of your documents and charge the Board with jeprodizing the association. Read the statement request it be made part of the minutes and sit down. Also audio record the meeting.

You should have clean hands and good jutification, and if your concerns are valid, all you have to do is annouce your concerns, which justifys them as a member of the association, and they should be recorded. Don't fight about it, but have your say.

Imho.

I'd ask to have this added to your cc&r;s or governing docs. I would want it in the minutes that you are asking for all vendors private or otherwise are licensed, bonded and have insurance. If they vote no, make sure it goes on record you vote yes with needing these items.. It could save your buns in a lawsuit. I would also argue this is indeed a conflict of interest, unless this guy will sign a waiver stating he releaess the HOA from any and all harm that he may sustain physically, financially and otherwise due to an unforseen incident.. etc. If he doesnt' sign it it's a high sign to dump his services.

RobertR,

I found out that when they pay this man, they write on the check that it is for "Reimbursement for Landscape Supplies" so they don't have to produce a 1099 at tax time. I asked if he doesn't have to produce receipts for the supplies to make this legal, and they say they have done it in the past and there hasn't been a problem.

I HAVE to insist that he made to sign a "Waiver of Liability". The old guard on the BOD, and the Management Company, are not happy with all my questions, and the shut out is beginning.

Mary hit the nail on the head! The secretary is subjecting herself to question since she's a party to this ILLEGAL practice.

Your property management firm should have hired this part-time person. Since your HOA is smaller, and you are not set up for Workers Comp and all the payroll taxes. This is why you hire a PROFESSIONAL company to run your operation. Never go outside the law on it will come back to bite you in a big way.

Robert and other respondents to this topic,

The Management Company had called Friday to say due to a scheduling conflict for some of the Board members, the monthly meeting would be held a week earlier (June 23) then previously scheduled (June 30th). We were out of town, and when I arrived back I checked the answering machine. OK, so I missed a meeting, big deal.

As of yesterday, I am removed from the Board of Directors for our HOA.

In our accumulated mail was a letter from the Property Management Company for the HOA, thanking me for my time, but it was voted at the last Board meeting to "remove me w/o cause" I called the one other person on the Board that voted against hiring the handyman, and she said she also voted against removing me, but was out-voted. It was a motion made by the Secretary of the Board, and it was obvious that it had already been discussed prior to the meetng, because no one else asked questions, except for this other Board member. She was told that it was in the CCR's/By-laws and no further discussion was needed. They voted and I'm out. NOW WHAT!!

Jon,

I went to the Annual meeting in April 2009. There were two empty at-large Board Members seats open, so I volunteered. The Officers of the BOD said welcome, pull up a chair, and that's how I got on the Board. I've been asking a lot of questions about decisions that have been made, and I must have ticked the old-timers off. I checked the CCR's and By-laws, and it says if a majority of the Board rules, a Member-at-Large can be removed without cause. I was blown-away by the letter I received, without even a by-your-leave, just thanks, now get lost.

Do I even want to FIGHT this??!!

Everett, By-laws of my HOA it states under Article VIII (Officers and Their Duties) Section 5 the following:

Resignation and Removal. Any officer may be removed from office with or without cause by the Board. (Then it goes on to explain the resignation process).

I called the Management Company and they said it had to do with my asking an outside Insurance Agent about the liability issue with hiring the handyman, and that it was a breach of confidence. HUH!!

I don't need anything more to do with this group. 3 of the Officers have been on this Board for 14 years. Now I see why no one wants to go to meetings, or get involved with the community. The people that sold us our house, didn't mention a word of the conflict in the Association, they just wanted to move, and I can see why.

Mary,

The more I read in the By-Laws the more I think I wasn't "officially" on the Board of Directors. Article V - Section 2 states: Election to the Board of Directors shall be by secret written ballot.

I volunteered at the Annual meeting when they said two seats were open, and they said join us at the head table, and it was put in the minutes.

As to Removal of Directors as stated in Article IV - Section 3 it states: Any director may be removed from the Board, with or without cause, by a majority vote of the members of the Association.

OK, I get that, but I'm thinking I wasn't elected to be on the Board in the first place, because I wasn't on the Ballot, I just spoke up and volunteered.

Barbara,

You had asked a couple of posts back whether it is worth it to fight - that is a personal decision and it would be understandable if you decided not to. However, you obviously cared enough about your community to volunteer in the first place.

How was the letter worded? Did it take the position that you were not properly elected, or that you were being removed as a director? If the latter, they are not challenging your election. In fact, I would take the position that you were elected by acclamation - there was no need for a secret ballot since there were fewer candidates than open seats (or an equal number).

The provision regarding removal of directors makes it clear that the members must vote to remove you, or any other director. Unless there is some additional language that you did not provide, it also sounds like vote by more than 50% of the entire membership must be obtained for removal of a director, not just a majority of those present and voting (with a quorum present).

You might also check the by-laws provisions regarding notice of meetings - if notice of last week's meeting was not given as required by the by-laws, changing the meeting date might allow you to claim that last week's meeting was improper, and the actions taken then are not valid. However, even if successful on that argument, presumably the 3 other directors will vote again at the next meeting to remove you unless they face up to the provision you cited, Art. IV, Section 3.

I would guess the remainder of the Board also fails to comprehend the actual meaning of the documents and have made an interpretation that suits their wishes.

Jon,

When it comes to running our investment into the ground, since our house is now valued at $100,000 less than when we bought it, how much more could it be run into the ground. I'm not talking a MCMansion here, just a 3-bedroom townhouse. As of the last Board meeting I was at in May, 27 of the families in the community are under court action for non-payment of fees, there are 10 foreclosures, and people are not making repairs on fences, siding, etc.

I know that is beside the point. This thread started with the hiring of a handyman without insurance. He might be the final straw for this community if anything does happen to him and he sues the Association.

Barbara:

Sounds to me like you have found yourself in a similar position to many others living in HOA or condo settings. Do you get involved or do you stay out of it?

Your property is not unique in the fact that most owners will complain and few will be willing to lift a finger to help. Most are more than willing to allow for folks, like those that serve on your Board, to make bad or self serving decisions. How they can do that is beyond me.

But fighting by yourself to protect the interests of those who sit by and do nothing can get old quickly.

I would guess from what I have read property values will continue to fall. Depending on what area you live perhaps another 20% or more. IMO we are far from being out of the woods in regards to the real estate markets and the economy as a whole.

I have done what was possible over the last few years to prepare our property for these rough times. In my opinion now more than ever you need the best folks handling the management of your property and your investment. This can take an enormous amount of time and effort. With the possibility that in the end your efforts might fail.

Sitting on a Board where your presence is not wanted is difficult, I have been there. But allowing these types of people to oversee the largest investment in your life is also difficult. I can't tell you what to do for everyone in this situation the choice is yours. In my own case I have still not figured out if my time and effort was worth it for ME. There certainly is a price to pay. In some cases a very high price.

If I could go back to where it started would I do it again???? I don't have that answer. As I have said before I was in your position 22 years ago and decided to try. It took me 14 YEARS to work my way up to the point where we could remove the President, VP and Treasurer.( Both the President and VP had held their positions for more than 20 years!) And then fire the MC that was allowed to screw our property for more than 20 years. And in the end do the long time owners appreciate those efforts????? The truth they don't even really consider what was done. Magically it all happened.

I wish you luck Barbara either way there is no right or wrong.

My suggestion do what is best for you and your life.

Best Wishes.