No Swimming Permitted in the Swimming Pool

Our declarent controlled board has imposed a new rule that prohibits lap swimming in our outdoor pool. The pool is irregularly shaped and does not have lane dividers to separate lap swimmers from leisure users of the pool, although it does have a black line of tile on the bottom across the long axis for lap swimmers to follow. The typical pool usage is very low. Often there is nobody in it. At other times there may be a handful of folks socializing in waist to chest deep water. The new rule bans lap swimming even when the pool is completely empty and also bans the use of goggles, snorkels, etc.

At a meeting with the homeowner appointed to the board by the developer, after theses rules had already been implemented, he admitted that the rules resulted from complaints by leisure users of being asked/told by lap swimmers to move off of the black line. There have been no other incidents; no collisions, no injuries. No lap swimmers were consulted prior to imposition of the rules, to determine what alternatives should be considered.

So, we have a beautiful outdoor pool which goes largely unused. The lap swimmers have offered a variety of compromises (such as allowing the life guard to determine when high pool occupancy makes lap swimming unacceptable) but the board refuses to consider them.

The level of anger, frustration, and mistrust within our community continues to grow. The slowdown of the housing market has pushed the transition of control from the developer to homeowners out more than two years. By the time we have the chance to elect a board that will consider the needs of ALL members of the association, the community will be hopelessly polarized.

I regret having bought a home in an HOA.

"Time and place" rules could be implemented. Some lakes have it for fishing after complaints that the leisure boaters were upsetting the sports-fishers.

So it would mean at certain times, lap swimming is allowed and the leisure swimmers need to know that. Other times, no lap swimming allowed, and lappers need to know that.

Have they ever referred to it as a "swimming" pool, or advertised a "swimming pool" as one of the amenities when selling units in the development? If so, I think they'd have a legal problem banning swimming in the swimming pool!

Michele, I don't think his regret is related entirely to the swimming pool issue. But swipe away.

We tried to impliment ONE hour a day (while the kids were in school) to designate it as an "adult exercise" hour only. We got such a backlash from the parents of FOUR kids because our docs state that no common areas can be designated for the exclusive use of one group of people.

So, as it stands these FOUR kids can run havoc all over the "Peaceful Enjoyment" of all the other eighty people who live here.

Sorry.....I don't believe the kids have all the rights in the world. Especially when their PARENTS are teaching them bad manners; the "me first" attitude"; and that they should NEVER consider the rights of others who live here.

If I had acted like that when I was growing up (disrespect for my elders) I would have paid for it.

Sorry,

I mean to say.. 'please say Hi' my keyboard is sticking :-)

Kirk, we've tried and tried and tried. Kids playing and laughing in the pool is one thing; but we've got kids who are allowed to SCREEEEEAM at the top of their lungs while in the pool and we've gotten complaint after complaint after complaint from residents about it. Their parents don't say a word to them about it and when people have actually gone out to the pool and begged the parents to keep the kids more quiet they've been told they're not hurting anyone and for them to go back inside. People have even heard the parents ENCOURAGE the kids to do whatever they want because they're "allowed" to.

The parents have been sent all sorts of letters about the pool rules (disturbing behavior) association (noise) rules, etc. We've had board meetings with this topic on the agenda and every time we have the few beligerant parents sit there and scream at us and tell us this is a "family" community; kids will be kids; and that WE need to learn to be more "tolerant".

We have people here who are sick and elderly and it's very, very upsetting for them. I'm five units away from the pool, on the second floor, my windows are closed, and my air conditioner is on and sometimes I can't even talk on the phone with their screaming. Any suggestions?

Anna,

This is a hard shot to call. Kids at the pool equates to lots of noise and playful antics. A lot of kids and alot of elderly usually does not mix, I'm sorry to say. Today's parents aren't like our parents were; they don't seem to discipline their children but rather believe it's best to let them "do their own thing"! And people tend to get less tolerant of children (especially children at play) as they grow older. It would be nice to be able to reach a happy medium, but I really don't know that it's possible. Sorry, I don't have any answers except to say, please be careful about making rules that cannot be kept, i.e., no loud noise at the pool; no playing "Marco Polo", etc.

Many moons ago I posted about our condo HOA having a pool rule (Adult Hour from 3:00-4:00 - 18 and older only). I don't want to get into if it is a "good rule" or "bad rule" -- needless to say, we didn't like it. We have 7 and 9 year old girls and only get to visit our "vacation home" three weeks per year. An adult hour smack in the middle of day did not sit well with us.

Anyhow, a guy in a different building really made a huge stink about this including writing threatening letters. Long story short, when our resident manager found out the rule violated the FHA and we could be subjected to a fine -- he refused to enforce it and even put a sign in the office saying he will not enforce it (trying to cover his you know what).

We haven't been down there in quite a while, but I understand they changed the sign to read "Lap Swimming only from 3:00-4:00pm). I am wondering if this will cause more problems -- are you going to get kicked out of the pool at 3:05 if you don't begin swimming laps????

I'll be down there in a few weeks and will write a post about the outcome of this.

Sorry.....I don't believe the kids have all the rights in the world.

I just have to address this. You may think this way, however residents with children pay the same amount of association dues as you do and their families have the right to have the same access to the amenities as you do.

People who smoke by the pool annoy me to no end -- I'd love a "no persons who smoke can use the pool" rule but I know better.

Do you seriously need dedicated time, in writing, to do laps? Just pick a time where no one is around to do your laps. Problem solved.

You know better than. . . what?

I know of hundreds of pools that have this exact same restriction.

And no alcoholic beverages.

And no glass anything.

Unfortunately the bureaucrats that run the world don't feel the same way. This is a re-post of mine from another thread on pools:

The HOA could be in violation of the Fair Housing Act (1988) for discriminating against a group of people, especially kids. Over the past decade, a number of court decisions have applied the provisions of the Act to HOA pool rules and regulations. The cases have held that restrictions on children’s use of a swimming pool, where those same restrictions do not apply to other adult residents, are prima facie cases of discrimination under the Act.

Courts have found that the only way an HOA may avoid liability for rules that discriminate against children is to show two things: (1) that the pool rule is rooted in a “compelling business necessity,” and (2) that the rule constitutes the “least restrictive means” to achieve the desired effect. In the context of swimming pools, concerns about safety and sanitation typically prompt HOAs to adopt rules that limit children’s use of the pool. Of course, keeping the pool safe and sanitary presents a compelling business necessity, but the Act requires that HOAs come up with more inventive ways to address their safety and sanitation concerns than simply forbidding minors under a certain age or non-toilet trained children from using the pool.

These are some of the cases that the courts have heard:

• An HOA’s rule forbidding children under 18 to swim without an adult was found by the courts to be in violation of the Act because it was overly restrictive. The court reasoned that under such a rule, even a 17-year old certified life guard could not swim alone. Less restrictive means could achieve the same safety goals by requiring persons without swimming skills to be accompanied by a person with swimming skills, regardless of age.

• A rule prohibiting all non-toilet trained children in the pool was also a violation because the goal could have been achieved by requiring all non-toilet trained persons to wear waterproof pants.

• Prohibiting baby strollers, walkers and playpens from the pool area was considered discriminatory even though it was clearly based upon safety concerns. The court found that a rule allowing only lounge chairs in the pool area have accomplished the same goal.

• A rule prohibiting inner tubes, balls and floats was not discriminatory because it covered equipment not used exclusively by children.

Anna,

Surely there must be someting in your covenants as to "quiet and peaceful enjoyment" of your property or noise conditions, whatever. If you find this in your docs send out a violation notice which may or may not help. Even rental leases usually contain this language.

There is not. There should be a rule against smoking and alcoholic beverages at the pool.

We do not ban diapered babies from OUR pool; we have a rule that proper baby swim attire or water-proof pants must be used in the pool. I think we may need that to include incontinent adults, too.

Ellen, you're right....we do have rules about noise and disruptive behavior at our pool. We've sent countless letters about behavior that is "deemed disruptive or offensive" to people using the pool.

Christine, I'm sure your girls are very polite and I understand your frustration if the association "bans" them from the hottest part of the day. That's not fair.

It's just that I'm a "pro-elderly" person in the max of the words. There are too few "voices" for them and it seems that the next generation (the kids) and the following generation (the grandkids) have lost sight of the sacrifices those in their 70's, 80's and 90's have made for them to have the freedoms that they do.

The elderly seem to request so few minutes of the day....at least at my place. If they're demanding a huge "chunk" of time that will take away from families and children then THEY are wrong.

I didn't mean to come down on you so hard....but as I said; I will be a voice for the elderly anytime needed. It just seems that the elderly are expected to make accomodations for all kids; and all kids should not ever be expected to make accomdations for the elderly.

It's a sad, sad world we live in now. Manners and respect seem to have gone out the window.....and we've had to put in place laws and rules just to make people be civil and respectful.

It's embarassing..at least to those of us who were raised with morals, respect for our elders, and a sense of what "being a neighbor" meant.

That's probably the best idea in this whole discussion. Don't make it about the age of the participants, make it about the activity. That way nobody can claim ageism, but people can still have a time slot that is dedicated to exercise. I would even say you should encourage the kids to show up for this. Most of them could use a bit of exercise anyway.