Noisy Condo Owner

MarleenS (Michigan)
Posts: 1

Posted:

We are a 20 Unit Condo Association and have an issue with one
owner who has bought the condo on a land contract and this owner
has a lady living with him, they are not married. Our issue is
with the lady, who several times a week constantly yells and
screams and this is disturbing the other owners and renters.
Our By-Laws state that noise should be kept at a minium as not
to disturb others. When it gets too bad, the police are called.
It will be quiet for awhile and then starts all over again.
What can the Board due to remedy this problem, she alone is not
an owner, just the man is. Can she be evicted if you go through
the proper channets, court etc.
Your thoughts.

MarleenS

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Marleen, it doesn't matter if the woman is not an owner if she is violating the CC&R's (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions) the owner of record is responsible for her actions and the violation notices need to go to him. This includes any applicable fines. You need to read the CC&R's carefully in order to determine just what you can do. As to whether or not you can have her evicted, you need to consult an attorney. You can find the landlord - tenant laws for your state online, give them a read and you will know whether or not you might have a case for eviction.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Marleen,

Glen is correct about who is resp. for upholding the CCRs. However, I don't know that the landlord tenant act would apply. This person is the owner's "significant other" or perhaps his "common law wife". I doubt she could be characterized as a renter, which is where the landlord tenant law comes into play. I don't know that the board can do anything about her residing in the owner's home; he has a right to have whomever he chooses live with him. Unless yours is an age-restricted community and this woman does not meet the requirements, she most likely cannot be evicted under any circumstances. The BOD can only take action IAW what your docs say about "noise".

JW4 (Washington)
Posts: 31

Posted:

I agree, I would suggest that the Board send a letter as a warning of the violation. But it sounds as if this will not make much difference based upon what i read. If you have a fine policy then that would be the likely next step.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Keep calling the police. If she starts again, call them again. Something is obviously wrong.

JudyM5 (Ohio)
Posts: 36

Posted:

Marleen - Most all condo docs provide a clause for "excessive noise, annoying activities, etc.". However, what constitutes "noise" and/or "annoying" is very subjective. Based on solid legal advice, the most that the BOD can do is to send a warning letter to the legal owner of the unit. Past that, the BOD should remain uninvolved and should advise the annoyed person to call the police. This is really a "neighbor disagreement" issue and is a civil matter. It is not and should not be an association controlled issue. Note: You need to check the noise ordinance in your city, county, or township. If this woman is not yelling and making excessive noise during the hours covered by the noise ordinance, then she is within her right to do as she wishes inside the unit where she lives . . . just as you can do what you wish inside your unit.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Judy,
If you agree the Board is charged with enforcement of the covenamts and the covenants provide for control of the atmosphere of the complex, how can the Board abdicate the responsibilities of the covenants. Your reason as stated "solid legal advice" seems, at best questionable. If the legal advice is that the covenants are not written properly, then why doesn't the solid legal advice write the covenants. If you can get throwed out of a Motel for distrubing the piece of others, why doesn't this work in a condo? Distrubing the peace is distrubing the peace. You say the Board should remain uninvolved but they should direct the person to call the police. Now if this is how you are supposed to handle distrubing the peace in your condo, isn't that really an act of the Board and directly involves them.
Pretty much playing the Devils advocate here. As a long time condo dweller, I think I might have some conflicts with our Board if they didn't attempt to enforce the covenants as written, especially the ones about maintaining order in the complex. The condo complex is private property owned by all the members and the members can institute rules of conduct on that property. At least I believe they can.

JudyM5 (Ohio)
Posts: 36

Posted:

Robert - I am also a long-term condo owner. I've owned a condo unit for 26 years. I've served on a condominium BOD for 10 years and have worked for a very large Association Management Company for 7 years managing multiple condominium complexes. So, I feel very comfortable with my remarks about what the Board should do and should not do in this type of situation. If you will refer to condolawyers.com, you will find a section that deals specifically with how literal a BOD should or should not be in interpreting and enforcing the CC&Rs. So, the condominimum attorneys who developed and maintain this website, along with the attorney that I referred to in my post, all maintain that "individual circumstances" must sometimes be taken into consideration by the BOD and that the BOD should not just blindly enforce the CC&R's. By the way, the attorney that my associations use and whose advice I referred to in my previous post, is such a recognized authority on condominium law that she was a part of Ohio's legislative committee that drafted the 2004 revisions to Ohio's condominium statutes. This places her, her experience, and her knowledge in the top 5 or 6 condominium attorneys in the state of Ohio. Therefore, her advice and her opinions are very relevant and very reliable. In fact, I have been dealing with exactly this same situation in one of my condominium complexes. The only difference is that the complaint is against the son of the unit. The neighboring unit is insisting that the BOD make the young man, who has lived in the unit for 18 years, move out of his home or they will sue the owner, the BOD, and the association. The complaining owners have only owned their unit for 2 years and already have a lien filed against their unit for delinquent condo fees. In addition, they have several unresolved violations involving common elements. They also told the PM (me) that they had no intentions of paying the association's "bs" condo fees! Yet, under Ohio law, the unpaid balance is not late fees, they are unpaid association fees. In short, they are an excellent example of "I don't have to follow the condo rules, but you do!" Sorry that you disagree with me, but if you are on a BOD, I would think twice before submerging your BOD and your association in a civil matter. And, that's what neighbor issues are . . . a civil matter . . . not an association matter!!

JudyM5 (Ohio)
Posts: 36

Posted:

Robert - I am also a long-term condo owner. I've owned a condo unit for 26 years. I've served on a condominium BOD for 10 years and have worked for a very large Association Management Company for 7 years managing multiple condominium complexes. So, I feel very comfortable with my remarks about what the Board should do and should not do in this type of situation. If you will refer to condolawyers.com, you will find a section that deals specifically with how literal a BOD should or should not be in interpreting and enforcing the CC&Rs. So, the condominimum attorneys who developed and maintain this website, along with the attorney that I referred to in my post, all maintain that "individual circumstances" must sometimes be taken into consideration by the BOD and that the BOD should not just blindly enforce the CC&R's. By the way, the attorney that my associations use and whose advice I referred to in my previous post, is such a recognized authority on condominium law that she was a part of Ohio's legislative committee that drafted the 2004 revisions to Ohio's condominium statutes. This places her, her experience, and her knowledge in the top 5 or 6 condominium attorneys in the state of Ohio. Therefore, her advice and her opinions are very relevant and very reliable. In fact, I have been dealing with exactly this same situation in one of my condominium complexes. The only difference is that the complaint is against the son of the unit. The neighboring unit is insisting that the BOD make the young man, who has lived in the unit for 18 years, move out of his home or they will sue the owner, the BOD, and the association. The complaining owners have only owned their unit for 2 years and already have a lien filed against their unit for delinquent condo fees. In addition, they have several unresolved violations involving common elements. They also told the PM (me) that they had no intentions of paying the association's "bs" condo fees! Yet, under Ohio law, the unpaid balance is not late fees, they are unpaid association fees. In short, they are an excellent example of "I don't have to follow the condo rules, but you do!" Sorry that you disagree with me, but if you are on a BOD, I would think twice before submerging your BOD and your association in a civil matter. And, that's what neighbor issues are . . . a civil matter . . . not an association matter!!

JudyM5 (Ohio)
Posts: 36

Posted:

Robert - I am also a long-term condo owner. I've owned a condo unit for 26 years. I've served on a condominium BOD for 10 years and have worked for a very large Association Management Company for 7 years managing multiple condominium complexes. So, I feel very comfortable with my remarks about what the Board should do and should not do in this type of situation. If you will refer to condolawyers.com, you will find a section that deals specifically with how literal a BOD should or should not be in interpreting and enforcing the CC&Rs. So, the condominimum attorneys who developed and maintain this website, along with the attorney that I referred to in my post, all maintain that "individual circumstances" must sometimes be taken into consideration by the BOD and that the BOD should not just blindly enforce the CC&R's. By the way, the attorney that my associations use and whose advice I referred to in my previous post, is such a recognized authority on condominium law that she was a part of Ohio's legislative committee that drafted the 2004 revisions to Ohio's condominium statutes. This places her, her experience, and her knowledge in the top 5 or 6 condominium attorneys in the state of Ohio. Therefore, her advice and her opinions are very relevant and very reliable. In fact, I have been dealing with exactly this same situation in one of my condominium complexes. The only difference is that the complaint is against the son of the unit. The neighboring unit is insisting that the BOD make the young man, who has lived in the unit for 18 years, move out of his home or they will sue the owner, the BOD, and the association. The complaining owners have only owned their unit for 2 years and already have a lien filed against their unit for delinquent condo fees. In addition, they have several unresolved violations involving common elements. They also told the PM (me) that they had no intentions of paying the association's "bs" condo fees! Yet, under Ohio law, the unpaid balance is not late fees, they are unpaid association fees. In short, they are an excellent example of "I don't have to follow the condo rules, but you do!" Sorry that you disagree with me, but if you are on a BOD, I would think twice before submerging your BOD and your association in a civil matter. And, that's what neighbor issues are . . . a civil matter . . . not an association matter!!

JudyM5 (Ohio)
Posts: 36

Posted:

Sorry about the multiple posts! Apparently, one "submit" resulted in my reply posting 3 times!

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Judy,
I am much impressed, 3 times to be exact. To respond to your post is not going to produce any babies, but you might like to read it over and try to understand the context as posted.
I disagree about your exclusion of the Board in civil matters of a condo. That only leaves criminal matters. If an owner sues the Board for not providing proper insurance as required by the Documents, is that a civil matter? I don't think anyone should submerge the Board in anything, and I don't think I am going to submerge myself in a war of words with you.
Some of what you say makes sense, and that is true of nearly all the posts on this site. I think we are talking apples and oranges.
Elvis has left the building.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

Marleen,

I sympathize with you but suggest "they are not married" be left out of your question. It is the conduct and not the marital status that you should be discussing. It is the owner who should be notified. It appears your only recourse after that is to contact the police if it is serious. You cannot "evict" a relative, live in or guest of an owner. I live in a townhome on a lake where fireworks are shot off on July 4th and a very nice lady that lives here said "I hope they aren't so noisy this year". Meanwhile lots of owners think it is great. It's all in the eye of the beholder but I can't understand a person who complains about a once a year celebration. Better she should move way out in the country. Not saying this applies in your case but the "not married" part got to me. It smacks of intrusion on other peoples' lives and being a nosy neighbor.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

glen,

I agree with your first three sentences. As far as going to an attorney.... who knows if there is a lease and EVEN if there is it would be up to the landlord not the hoa to take action.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

Judy,

No problem posting multiple times. My old computer is so slow I sometimes think submit has not been completed and do it again. One suggestion, if I may, if you would break up lenghty posts with paragraphs it sure would make reading it easier.