HELP BOD resigns

Started by PatriciaW2 • 54 replies • 2413 views

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PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Just under two years ago we purchased a lot in a 9 lot community (one being a retention pond and one the developer kept for his own use). All the lots were sold within a few months of each other, however there is only one home currently under construction and is up for sale. We have paid our dues to the HOA run by the developer for the past two years. Jan 08 and Jan 09. A very small fee I must say that covered the mowing of the retention pond area. The other day we got a letter stating that the entire board has resigned and that we (the lot owners) needed to meet and elect an new board to elect new officers and then decide whether to continue or dissolve the HOA. It also stated it turn over the common grounds (the retention pond). They did send a list of names and addresses of the 7 other lot owners (excluding the lot they kept as their own. 5 are current residents of SC (not in the same towns though) and 2(including myself) out of state making it difficult I am sure for all of us to meet. I am not even sure if any of the other home owners are interested in meeting since at least two of the lots are back up for sale and the one with the partially built home. I know something has to be done and if I dont hear from one of the other owners (that live in SC) shortly I will be more than happy to initiate the conversations with them. However I need some information as to what exactly needs to be done. We do not currently live in a home that has a HOA. Some question I have 1. There is a development behind ours (about 30 homes) that has a HOA, would dissolving ours and combining our properties into theirs be an option? 2. Can anyone be a representative for me at the meeting if I cannot be there (my brother lives in SC). 3.If we for some reason decide to disolve (not the best choice IMHO) how would we decide who would maintain the mowing of the common area. 4. What is the developer required to supply us with as far as paperwork goes? 5. Is there a time frame in which we have to elect new officers? I dont know if they ever had meetings since we never got any minutes from them I am going to assume they did not until the elected to bail. I am sure there are many other questions and concerns I will have in the coming months.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Your charter would tell you how to replace your "HOA board." If you have a copy, read over it. You'll certainly have to interact with the seven other property owners regarding the retention pond maintenance. Someone will ultimately be in charge of hiring the lawn care company to keep the mowing up without the developer organizing it. Otherwise, you could consult a property management company about helping you, but that would cost additional $$$. The developer who collected your dues and ensured your common area was mowed acted as a property manager, so you could expect about the same if you hired a new company.

Good Luck...it's not as bad you might think. It takes a little work.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Also, if South Carolina and your governing documents allow for Proxies, then you can appoint someone your proxy for the meeting.

Or you should be able to.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Thanks for your help.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

If there was a board before this mess, then get copies of all the paperwork - minutes of the meetings, legal documents, financial reports, contracts, etc.

Are you SURE about the limited commons area - just the retention pond - that the HOA is responsible for? What about the roads, water, garbage pickup and right of way maintenance. You and the other homeowners needs to think long and hard about this. You are so new and the economy WILL come back. Be sure you are not selling yourself short or not planning for the future.

CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435

Posted:

Also check your deed. It may contain deed restrictions that run with the land. You may not be able to dissolve your HOA and remove the obligation of pond maintenance.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Actually the BOD that resigned was the developer and his wife plus one other person, that I have no clue is (not one of the lot owners) and its they that said we could opt to disolve the HOA, but that the restricitve covenants would remain in effect. Dont know that anyone has an interest in disolving since I have not spoken to anyone yet. Just gathering info to as usual play the devils advocate. But since we are on that subject, what happens as far as ownership of the retention pond area. It belongs to the HOA that pays taxes on it. If the HOA is disolved who then does it belong to and who pays the taxes on it?

The retention pond is a dry pond, just grass. Not a huge deal to take care of. There are no water lines (all individual wells and septic) or trash pick-up, to the dump we go. The road is blacktopped but it is one of the few in the area, most are dirt and stone. The street is blacktopped but the side roads in the other developemnts in that area are not. It is 7 1 acre lots in a cul-de-sac configuration out in the sticks 45 minutes from the nearest Walmart. :-)

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Idea: Sell the retention pond to the closest owner for $1. Think about it, do you really care who owns it?

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Actually no I dont care who owns it and thats a good idea

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Patricia,
Have you given any thought to doing nothing. Who is this developer going to turn the place over to is he can't find the owners. You can't. He would have to send you some kind of legal document that would require a signature and a time frame for a response from the owners. If he don't do that, and get a warm body at the meeting what is he going to do? He would have to get legal help, so let him hire a lawyer and then you can see what the lawyer has to say. I would consider just ignoring any thing that was not signed by the court.

Regards that HOA next to you, their documents may address how they can absorb more units into their association ans since SC just doesn't have enforceable statute regarding HOA, you have to try and follow the Non-profit regulations as best you can. I would not hesitate to contact Consumer Affairs in SC and ask to speak to one of their lawyers and see if they can discuss this, they may decline.
I would also pay a personal visit to you local state representative and lay the story out and ask for help. Try the county Council Meeting and at the open session get it on record by speaking, try your county administrator and you county planner and zoning office. Get all the records you can copy and really find out what options you have. Keep turning over stones and asking for help and don't get forced into doing anything until you know a lot more than you do now. I would also approach this developer with the assumption his concern is bottom line, your concern is the property.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

The above is not legal advice, just an opinion, as always.

AnnJ2 (Colorado)
Posts: 120

Posted:

One comment be careful about ignoring the request completely. You don't have an obligation to be "proactive" but don't stop paying dues. If it does turn over to a new "board" they may come after delinquent owners. Be sure to keep paying dues if there is a place and way to pay but make sure it is going into an association held account not a developer held account. If you can't verify send notice to the address you ahve that the funds are available to be sent but you have no coinfirmation of where they will be deposited.

On the detention pond check to see if the city or county will take it over and I woudl verify that the road is or is not the association responsibility. if it is the only paved in the area that means it is different for some reason.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Robert and all,
Thanks for the advice. I will see what the thoughts of the others are. I was planning on the wait and see game (waitig for those that at least live in SC to contact me) for a bit while I researched it all.
We got a letter (not a legal document that I can tell just a typed letter from them) from them informing us of their decision and that they were going to deduct monies owed to him from the 2009 dues (we pay once a year in Jan.) The cost of transferring the common property and taxes 150 and 78 respectivley and the cost of forming the HOA no cost given. I have no idea if there is anything left of the monies paid or if he is going to try and come back and get more since I have no idea of what it cost him to form the HOA, or if he has plans to continue mowing the retention pond area for remainder of this year. Last years statement said he took in 1750 and paid out 1750 for mowing. Where would I find the restrictive covenants, I did not recieve any at settlement. I did see some at one point talking about the size of home and types of outbuldings one could have (I believe that was shown to me when we were looking at the property) but it looked more like they belonged to the development he built across the street (a much larger community on the lake) since there was verbage in there pertaining to docks and such. I will have to do a search of my house to see if I still have that somewhere, its not with my settlement papers. Never got any docs with by-laws of the community. Guess I should have been asking for these when we first purchased but you know they say about hindsight. I know years ago when we purchased a second home in a resort area the HOA by-laws and restrictions were given to us at settlement. There was an annual meeting every year and the minutes were/are placed on the website.

I guess the one saving grace I have here is that my brother lives in the area and can see whats happening with the mowing or lack of it. We currently live 8 hour drive form there and dont plan on building till next year (waiting for the magic age of retirement LOL)so it would be difficult for me to be activley involved at this point unless it is from afar. Not sure an absentee board member is the best idea and since all the lots were purchased aornd the same time in 2007 I dont know if anyone else is planning on building anytime soon either (except of course for the one guy that started building last year and then couldnt afford to finish and has it up for sale listed as under construction.)

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Patricia,

The CCRs (declaration) should have been recorded with the Co. Recorder in the CO in which the s/d is located. Some Co. recorders have a website where you can view documents, otherwise perhaps your brother can go down to the office and obtain a copy. Bylaws and articles of inc. ususally do not have to be recorded, but you can check with the Co. recorder -- different states have different laws. Of course you can always contact the developer and ask him for copies of all these gov. docs.

IMO, the members should elect a BOD as soon as possible. Whether the HOA is going to be dissolved or not, some organization should take place. Assessments should be collected for starters. The developer has records that should be turned over to the BOD. These records would include members' accounts (showing assessments paid), bank statements, invoices paid, perhaps a budget and financial statements, tax returns, inc. papers, deed (in name of HOA) to common areas, copies of all gov. docs, contract for mowing, etc.

Good luck!

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Patricia,
Don't your association have a name?
It is a simple matter in SC to check state web site for license registration as a business, and check as a non-profit. Use the search feature to run down what you are and how you are chartered.
Then go to the County Web site and search your name or name of developer and see how the property is deeded. Find out who controls what.
I don't think I can suggest much if you don't know more about what is going on. Go ask the developer for a copy of your governing documents. It is sad that no one is really watching the store but I guess you are now being forced to do what you should have been doing all along. Not you personally, the owners as a whole. The situation seems to be right now is the developer desires to do something and he apparently is not forthcoming or transparent, some one is going to win and some will lose with this kind of imbalance.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Robert and Mary
I agree with you that I/we should have been more active in all of this from the get go but what can I say out of sight out of mind. I have a list of all the docs I should be asking for (from one of the other threads) and that something needs to be done in a timely manner. If I have to be the one to take the bull by the horns so to speak so be it. I am actually surpised that no one has built and moved in the way the lots sold so quickly I figured to be the last to build and that everyone else would be taking care of this locally. Now it looks like if I build next year I may be the first (well second if the partially built log cabin sells and is finished.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Patricia,

If I were you, I would hold off building until the HOA mess is all cleared up. In fact I might be wondering if I should just sell the property and look somewhere else to build my retirement home. More headaches are the last thing you need as you go into your retirement years.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Patricia,
Best laid plans of mice and men (with abated breath), etc.
I bet that is Shakespeare also Mary, I don't remember the last of it, and I just learned what "bated" breath means. Now , don't tell me this site don't do some good stuff.

Patricia, if you have all the docs, what do they say about your HOA.
I understand it is hard to do this piece meal from a distance, but this absenteeism is a real problem and contributes to all the confusion of turning over a development.

RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobertR1 on 06/16/2009 7:34 AM
Patricia,
Best laid plans of mice and men (with abated breath), etc.
I bet that is Shakespeare also Mary, I don't remember the last of it, and I just learned what "bated" breath means. Now , don't tell me this site don't do some good stuff.

Actually the quote is "The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men, gang aft agley." from Mouse by Robert Burns

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Ive seen best laid plans of mice and men "oft go awry" "often go awry" and often go astray" so I am betting any of the aforemention would suit.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

for those wondering.... bated breath refers to a state in which you almost stop breathing as a result of some strong emotion, such as terror or awe.

Sorry Ive gotten off track here. :-)

Seriously you guys are great and offer great info.

Mary we arent planning to build for at least another year, all dependant on economy since I am not at an age where I can collect any type of retirement yet and wont be for another 2 1/2 years so we would need to rely on hubbys income until that time. So until the time comes that I have saved enough to cover my income for the tween months I work, I save, I work. LOL

I cannot fathom it taking that long to sort out the HOA issues, so I feel pretty comfortable about moving forward with those plans in the future.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Robert,
I have one question since you are from SC I am picking you. I am in Calhoun County zip code and on the map but my settlement docs say Orngeburg County. Which county's website should I be looking to for info you said I could find.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Well Patricia, you give me two choices, each having equal odds (50%) of being right. You can't be in both counties, I don't imagine although it may be possible to have two counties use one Records office. I would go with Orangeburg because it is mentioned in the documents. If both have sites check them both out. You can even give them a call and ask them what they suggest, most are very helpful.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

RobertG,
Google also says you can download the lyrics to "Best Laid plans" on to your cell phone. How's that for important information?

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RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160

Posted:

Mouse

Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie,
O, what panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi' bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
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Has broken Nature's social union,
An' justifies that ill opinion,
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An' fellow-mortal!

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For promis'd joy!

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On prospects drear!
An' forward, tho' I canna see,
I guess an' fear!

http://www.electricscotland.com/burns/mouse.html

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

WOW!
I'm speechless in Seattle!

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

ditto on what he said..

Ok I can find the owners association on the secretary of state website but nada on the county websites. Guess this is going to require a trip to a county court house. So the locals are on their own in that respect. Yours truely is not going to drive 8 hours to find an answer. And if she doesnt stop spending so much time on here instead of working shes going to be in hot water..

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Patricia,
When they fire you and you have a lot of spare time, why not give the county records office a call and double check anything they may have in Property records.

When you are home after work, if you don't get fired, get on the county website and search this developer and company County Court Records. Always good to know these things and nothing illegal about it.
I also search Google with names and/or businesses. Just information.

Did you see your association listed as a no-profit or just a business license on the state site. How did the state list your association? Check this developer out on that site also.

Just for fun, if there are bigger condos or HOA around, search their names where you can't find your name on the county sites. Just checking, if they are there, you should be there also.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

SHHHHH Im back LOL Listed as non profit corp

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Pssst,
What does this non-profit corp own?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Patricia,

Since you've found your assn on the Sec of State's website and it's listed as a nonprofit corp that means the developer did go through the process of having the HOA incorporated. That's good news and something you and your fellow members wont't have to worry about. Now you need to obtain copies of the gov. docs. I don't know what the requirements are in S.C. (Robert where are you???) so I don't what other docs, besides the CCRs, are required to be recorded. Also, the developer should have copies of all the gov docs; perhaps you can contact him for copies. If you do contact him you may also want to ask if he has deeded the common areas to the HOA and if so can he give you a copy of the deed. This is something the BOD will need to have. And, you may want to ask him to give you all the records of the assn that he has. Someone is going to have to get all these documents and someone is going to have to organize a meeting of the members so an election of board members can be held.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

pssst you asking the name of the HOA? Am I allowed to put that on here? Be glad to tell you.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Psssst!
I don't think we need to know the name of the non=profit.
I was asking what this corporation owns? In order to be a corporation you have to have some property, goods, something. Your members are in effect stock holders in this non-profit. It will be described in your documents. You all own a piece of the pie, no matter how small it is............or large.

As I noted SC does not address HOA specifically, the closest you can come is a non-profit corp. SC does have a condo statute and the AG more or less says, unless HOA's are involved in some criminal conduct by any member, they more or less say, fix it yourself or one party or the other take someone to court before a Master in Equity.

I doubt the preceding is without flaws, but you still need to be something that the developer is trying to get rid of and you have provisions and records and deeds and documents and the developer has to clear his books. At turnover your association, if there is one, is going to assume responsibility for something. It is always best to make sure you know exactly what that is and do not assume any debts without going to court

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary,
I think the two are separate in SC. On the face of it, it looks as if they did not form an association as such. But I think they could have done both. We are by statute a Condo Horizontal Property association of SC and are also listed as a non-profit corporation.

In any event this developer owned some land and established some value for something that he charged assessments for. It seems that must be listed in the property records and recorded under the documents as written. If there is no Courthouse record, I don't know what to say.............get a good lawyer, I guess.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

well that is clear as mud. I have no clue as to what the docs say. Guess I will just have to wait till I can call r go to the courthouse and get the documents and see. Or get him to send copies to one of us. As soon as I can get some info from someone I get I'll holler back at ya.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

ok after getting a good nights sleep and re-reading your post I think I have a better understanding of what you are asking. He bought a piece of land, subdivied it into 7- 1 acre residentail lots, 1 -1 1/2 acre commercial lot (which he owns and is not as far as I can see part of the HOA) and the 1/2 acre retention pond area, put in a road (cul-de-sac actually only one way in and out) and electric to a transformer.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

Patricia stated that she found the assn listed as a nonprofit corp on the Sec of State's website. That means a corp was formed and it must be the HOA if it has the HOAs name; what else could it be? For all practical purposes, and legally speaking, Patricia's XYZ HOA does exist as a nonprofit corp. At least that's the way I see it. Now since it's listed on the SOS website, there must be articles of inc and CCRs; not sure about bylaws. Frankly, as I've stated several times earlier, the developer should be contacted and asked for copies. NoOt until Patricia sees these docs will she have a better idea of what the members can and should do and the process for doing "it"!!

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

I think Patricia stated there is no property records on file with the county. Now if a corp is form that is going to be turned over to the association these property records have to be somewhere.

I don't have a clue as to what is going on, and I don't like the idea no one seems to know where the documents are. Where are the corp documents? In the end I suspect this may all be miscommunication or poor communication or no communication.

As we both have suggested, walk up to the developer and ask where the governing documents are..........what's wrong with that? But I sure would be trying to find out all the information that is available in the public record about the association, the developer and maybe a city or county involvement.

Our condo is registered in SC as a non-profit. You can plug in our name at several places on the state web site. I can also bring up our records and documents at the county property records office. She says there is no property records on file. You have to register with the county as a condo if property is involved (meaning all condos) I doubt there is any HOA that don't have some common property, albeit small at times. Just my opinion of course.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

I am going to cut and paste the list of docs from the list I got from here for turnover and email it to the developer ask for copies and see what he comes up with.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

I'm thinking the developer has not deeded over the common areas to the assn. But, that doesn't mean the assn doesn't exist. The assn doesn't have to own property to be a corp -- nonprofit or otherwise. I think that I suggested to Patricia earlier that she ask the developer not only for copies of the gov docs but the deed to the common areas and a number of other records.

If Patricia knows the name of the developer's corp (i.e., XYZ Homebuilders, Inc.) she can research that to see if the common areas are still deeded to his corp. The CCRs should have an Exhibit describing the covered property. This is what's contained in my former assn's CCRs on the page titled "Exhibit A, The Covered Property": "Lots 1 through 49, inclusive and Tracts A, B, C, D and E of XXX (name of HOA)according to a subdivision plat recorded to Book 100, of Maps Page 5 of the Official Records of Maricopa Co, AZ." When the common areas were deeded to the HOA a document would have been recorded to show the transfer. Patricia can search for this on the Co recorder's website under "plats".

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary,
I think your reasoning bears merit. Let's assume (a bad habit) that he has not turned over the land to the association, then there would be no association. I have felt here in SC the association is not formed until the creation of the association, at turnover or somewhere around that time frame. They began construction on our condos in 1978/9, our declarartion and registration at the county records office was not untill 1981 when the put the units up for sale. Now would this hold true here, I don't know. But there is property involved somewhere and this developers owns it and charges rent on it for maintaining it.
I also suggested to Patricia she research this guy on county court house records, county realestate records and and the civil and criminal courts. If she plugs his name of the name of his company into the County property records site, his name should come up listing the concerned property, if not, then who owns it? In this case there is property involved and I suspect it would be difficult to find an HOA that didn't have a piece of property involved. If you did find one, that would mean they have no common property, they would provide no service to any property or maintain any property. I can't visulize an HOA like this, but sure as shooting, there is probably some out there. Something has to bind the individual properties together. This case is an example of no one watching the store, no one knows nothing, no one is talking and most don't care. I can only guess why this developer is not forthcoming to Patricia. All this stuff could be resolved in a phone call if the effort would be made by all parties.

I hate to cast blame on anyone, it is hard to be in some one's shoes, but, better to find out ASAP, because as you know, sometimes things get set in motion and the happy homeowner wakes up one day with a bill collector at his door.
And I understand, as you do, Patricia's position, she is just trying to find out some simple facts but has to go around the castle ten time before she can find the door that is open. Do you think the developers Corp is going to be the Corp that forms the HOA?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

You said: "Let's assume (a bad habit) that he has not turned over the land to the association, then there would be no association." I don't agree. The HOA can be formed by the developer even if he has not deeded over the common areas. Usually this happens at transition. Whether or not the assn owns any land has no bearing on whether or not it can be an incorportated entity. Patricia has already found, through the SOS website, that the corp exists. Since the developer is exiting now is the time to find out if he has deeded the common areas to the HOA.

I find this to be an unusual situation since there are so few lots and none have been built on meaning all the members live offsite. IMO, this is making it more difficult to form the BOD and set about finding the necessary answers and taking control. IMO, someone is going to have to just step up to the plate and start the ball rolling. Perhaps that will be Patricia????

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

I am afraid it will be Patti (Patricia) as well. At least it sure looks the way so far. Or maybe I am jumping the gun by starting all this before waiting to hear from those that live in SC already since I came here looking hours after getting the letter. Patience is a virture I sometimes lack. Every action has a reaction and mine was to perhaps jump the gun and hit the sidewalk running so to speak. Gotta go. Talk later

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

In reference to the common areas. The minutes I (here we go again) assume they are minutes since its titled Meeting of the Board of XXZ Owners Association. There is a paragraph that states "the second order of business was to prepare a notice to inform the owners that the declarant has transferred the common areas to the association as permitted in Article 1, section (e) of the restrictive covenants." Now I dont know if they are sending an "offical" notice or if they are saying the minutes are the notice. Only time will tell I suppose.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

What say you Mary?
Does this mean that there is an association with common property?
Patricia, do you have this reference Article 1, sec.(e) of the restrictive covenants (aren't covenants restrictive by definition?)?

But this does indicate that somewhere there are documents. You are only going to have to turn over a few more stones like this one and you can pretty much decide all the owners need a lawyer, and not the developers lawyer. It also says there were meetings and records kept and votes taken and there were also minutes taken. Who keeps these records?

Round and round in circles. Also it says their was an agenda at the meeting, who made the agenda?

Mary, do you think the developer can hold a meeting with his self appointed Board, conduct action that transfers the property to the owners by notice and notify every owner individually he was doing the transition, and that action was described in the cited article.
In other words make the turnover without the presence of any owners?
I suppose he could write an article to detail this process, but I doubt it would fly in the courts.

PatriciaW2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 20

Posted:

no I dont have a copy of anything, I am hoping he will send them to me. OMG am I in over my head ....

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

Hey Patricia,

When the legal waters get this muddy, it may be best to hire a lawyer near your investment property to sort everything if you're confused. I would be confused by all this.

At the end of the day, your new HOA will be keeping the grass and weeds trimmed around a retention pond while watching over the physical integrity of the pond itself. Getting back to the basics, you have a pond with grass...you have some breathing room to stake out your legal grounds.

By the way, I noticed in your initial post that you asked if you could request to join the established HOA that's located behind your development. My HOA's charters allows for expansion, if certain criteria are met, to include new areas. You'd be required to pay their level of dues but, if allowed, you'd assume any benefits their HOA offers in terms of amenities. In fact, the neighboring HOA may have an attorney they call when they need one that could help you if it gets that far.

If they're active, they may actually WANT to see you get some help as opposed to empty lots, one half-built house and overgrown common areas, especially if they see a couple of property who really want to see the development keep afloat until the economy allows the lot owners to build their homes.

When investors mingle with probable homesteaders in a development, the investors want nothing to do with maintenance or maintenance expenses while the homesteaders want to protect their property for personal enjoyment. Hang in there and may the lawnmower crank soon!

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Good Post Kelly,
When things get this confused and convoluted, it helps to go back and review some of the basic information posted.

Patricia is not in over her head, she will learn as she goes along and shortly she will find out she knows more about what is happening than any of the owners and maybe the developer. The developer has an open playing field that he can run up and down on and never lose control of the ball. Then, just like the movie clips you see of some spectator coming out of the stands and tackling him, then he finds he has got to provide some accountability. Here, I am not sure what he provided or is willing to provide.

The lawyer card is always an option that presents some problems unless you are on site. You can see how that could play out. So, that takes time and money and energy, lots of energy, and all because you can't push the right button to find the information you want. I am sure Patricia is hoping this is just a misunderstanding, as we all do.
But, you have to work through it and while you are doing it, you should ask some other important questions and more important you have to find answers.

My documents allow for us to absorb some other entity, but has no mention of how we could be absorbed by someone else, which means if all documents in SC carry a clause like this, no one can be dissolved and absorbed. But I doubt that is the case and a good lawyer would know how to do this and a not so good lawyer would screw it up.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

Well, all I can say is that all I know is what I'm reading here!

From what Patricia has posted, yes there is an inc nonprofit HOA and from her last msg, the common areas have been deeded to the assn.

Yes the developer can assemble his self-appointed board and conduct business. The developer's board has the same powers as a member board. Legally speaking, I don't think the members must be present when the developer declares the common areas have been deeded to the assn. Speaking of my former assn that I was a board member of, I received word this action had taken place in a phone call from the developer who went on to tell me the deeds were in the mail. From Patricia's msg, the meeting minutes didn't say anything about turnover only that the common areas were deeded to the assn. So, I don't know that transition officially took place. The usual process is that the developer calls a meeting of the members at which time the first member BOD is elected and the assn is formally turned over to the members. But, frankly I don't even know that it's legally required to formally transition the assn at a that meeting or any other meeting of the members. IMO, the developer could make arrangements to meet with the new BOD, at which time all the official records will be turned over and a discussion of assn business will take place.

Of course these are only my opinions. The sad part is that transition is usually not covered (at least not in depth) anywhere in the gov docs and it may not be covered in state law either. Well, we know the latter applies in SC, right?

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary,
As always your deductions are on the money as far as I can see. It is interesting to note that there always seems to be a way for these things to be resolved or pushed to the background where they draw no attention and life at the old HOA goes on. Even here with such a small # involved things come down the road that have to be attended to and I suppose if the urgency is strong enough some action will be taken, by someone, but it is not supposed to work that way. I doubt strongly that many associations are the epitome of order and effeciency or business is properly conducted. There are demands that call for action and sometime those actions are not proper because of lack of knowledge. I don't think I know enough about all the requirements and laws that dictate proper conduct of business, in fact I KNOW I don't.

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