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GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
I have been trying to find out if the meeting dates can be changed at whim. Every few months, our board meetings have changed. By chance, I found out yesterday that the meetings scheduled for tomorrow and Tuesday have been changed to the following week. Our website still reflects tomorrow and Tuesday. Doesn't the meeting change need to be noticed to all Homeowners?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Grace,

I seem to recall VA is an open meeting state, meaning notice must be given to the members as they have a right to attend the meetings. If this is the case, then, YES, a meeting change should be posted the same as the initial meeting notice was.

The BOD can decide when to have the board meetings but, IMO, it's best to make it a particular day of a particular week in the month, i.e., the second tues of every month. That's the best way to ensure the presence of all board members as they can plan their schedule around that day and week each month.

Do you think the board did this as a way of preventing members from attending these meetings. Just out of curiosity, why two meetings in the same week?
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Thank you for responding Mary.

Yes, VA is an open meeting state. If we are lucky, our meetings get a sign put up the day before or the day of the meeting unless it is the Annual Meeting. I have not found a time frame for announcements of Board meetings for members other than the annual meeting. Is there a minimum time of announcement?

It is the PM that changed the meeting date of the Condo Board meeting however, the PM meets with the HOA Board once a week (no announcements) during which the date change was decided.

And, YES, I do believe that the PM is purposely changing the dates.

To answer your last question, I think I already did, one meeting is Condo the other is HOA.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Grace,

I've copied below the pertinent statute of VA Prop Owners Assn Act. As you will see, it does not give a time frame for posting the notice. This is something that should be amended. The way it reads now, the BOD could tack up the notice a half hr before the meeting and still be in compliance with the law!

ยง 55-510.1. Meetings of the board of directors.

A. All meetings of the board of directors, including any subcommittee or other committee thereof, shall be open to all members of record. The board of directors shall not use work sessions or other informal gatherings of the board of directors to circumvent the open meeting requirements of this section. Minutes of the meetings of the board of directors shall be recorded and shall be available as provided in subsection B of ยง 55-510.

B. Notice of the time, date and place of each meeting of the board of directors or of any subcommittee or other committee thereof shall be published where it is reasonably calculated to be available to a majority of the lot owners.

A lot owner may make a request to be notified on a continual basis of any such meetings which request shall be made at least once a year in writing and include the lot owners' name, address, zip code, and any e-mail address as appropriate. Notice of the time, date, and place shall be sent to any lot owner requesting notice (i) by first-class mail or e-mail in the case of meetings of the board of directors or (ii) by e-mail in the case of meetings of any subcommittee or other committee of the board of directors.

Notice, reasonable under the circumstances, of special or emergency meetings shall be given contemporaneously with the notice provided members of the association's board of directors or any subcommittee or other committee thereof conducting the meeting.

Unless otherwise exempt as relating to an executive session pursuant to subsection C, at least one copy of all agenda packets and materials furnished to members of an association's board of directors or subcommittee or other committee thereof for a meeting shall be made available for inspection by the membership of the association at the same time such documents are furnished to the members of the board of directors or any subcommittee or committee thereof.

Any member may record any portion of a meeting required to be open. The board of directors or subcommittee or other committee thereof conducting the meeting may adopt rules (i) governing the placement and use of equipment necessary for recording a meeting to prevent interference with the proceedings and (ii) requiring the member recording the meeting to provide notice that the meeting is being recorded.

If a meeting is conducted by telephone conference or video conference or similar electronic means, at least two members of the board of directors shall be physically present at the meeting place included in the notice. The audio equipment shall be sufficient for any member in attendance to hear what is said by any member of the board of directors participating in the meeting who is not physically present.

Voting by secret or written ballot in an open meeting shall be a violation of this chapter except for the election of officers.

C. The board of directors or any subcommittee or other committee thereof may convene in executive session to consider personnel matters; consult with legal counsel; discuss and consider contracts, pending or probable litigation and matters involving violations of the declaration or rules and regulations adopted pursuant thereto for which a member, his family members, tenants, guests or other invitees are responsible; or discuss and consider the personal liability of members to the association, upon the affirmative vote in an open meeting to assemble in executive session. The motion shall state specifically the purpose for the executive session. Reference to the motion and the stated purpose for the executive session shall be included in the minutes. The board of directors shall restrict the consideration of matters during such portions of meetings to only those purposes specifically exempted and stated in the motion. No contract, motion or other action adopted, passed or agreed to in executive session shall become effective unless the board of directors or subcommittee or other committee thereof, following the executive session, reconvenes in open meeting and takes a vote on such contract, motion or other action which shall have its substance reasonably identified in the open meeting. The requirements of this section shall not require the disclosure of information in violation of law.

D. Subject to reasonable rules adopted by the board of directors, the board of directors shall provide a designated period of time during a meeting to allow members an opportunity to comment on any matter relating to the association. During a meeting at which the agenda is limited to specific topics or at a special meeting, the board of directors may limit the comments of members to the topics listed on the meeting agenda.

(1999, c. 1029; 2000, c. 905; 2001, c. 715; 2003, c. 404; 2004, c. 333; 2005, c. 353.)

,
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Mary, Thank you again.

I have searched our By-Laws, the Property Owners Act and the Condominium Act over and over. I was hoping that I just missed something.

Can I ask with the following section, I copied from above, does or can the fraise "during a meeting" mean Homeowners Forum? Considering that Homeowners Forum is not put in the minutes of the Board meeting.

D. Subject to reasonable rules adopted by the board of directors, the board of directors shall provide a designated period of time during a meeting to allow members an opportunity to comment on any matter relating to the association. During a meeting at which the agenda is limited to specific topics or at a special meeting, the board of directors may limit the comments of members to the topics listed on the meeting agenda.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Mary,

We don't pay you enough.

I'm going to speak to someone in management and see if we can't change that.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Grace - it looks like there is a "designated time" for homeowners to express themselves at meetings. Perhaps your agenda says "homeowner's forum". That's the time for anyone to get up and express their issues.

However, I am surprised it is not recorded in the minutes. Samples might read;

Homeowner's Forum:
Mr. Smith of 123 XYZ road requested a review on the garbage pickup. No action taken.
Ms. Jones stated that the stray dogs running around are a nuisance. Board voted to approach the local municipality for increased patrol on the streets.

The board does have a right to limit the time that a resident can speak. And the issue should be summarized at the end of the "speech" given by the homeowner.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Grace,

The state law says the board "shall" (meaning they must) provide for a designated period of time during the board meeting for the members to comment on any matter on the agenda. This time can be called the "homeowners forum" and it can be scheduled at the beginning or the end of the board meeting. The board "may" (meaning they can if they so choose) place certain restrictions depending upon how many members are present and wish to speak and how many topics are on the agenda. According to the state law the board may state that only agenda items may be addressed. This is at the board's discretion.

Regarding the Homeowner's Forum, I think it's a good idea to make mention of any items addressed by the members present. Our minutes usually contain a short synopsis showing the name of the member who addressed the board, what their concern was, the board's comments and whether or not any action was taken or will be taken.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michele,

Thank you; you are much too kind. Know that I don't come cheap! The only place where I work for free is at home; and my husband has really taken advantage of that! BTW, I'll expect to hear from mgmt by the second Tues of next week. LOL
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Thank you all so very much!

Your insight and encouragement is appreciated by so many, I am thankful to be one.
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Susan and Mary - I don't want to derail this topic, and I am probably in a real minority, but I don't think including what is said in the homeowners forum should be included in the minutes. The minutes document what is done, not what is said. The only things that should be in the minutes are motions and their outcome.

I do think there should be a way to remember what issues homeowners have; the minutes just are the proper place.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

I agree! The minutes are no place for a "he said, she said" narrative. Our recorder (we hire a professional recorder to take our minutes) includes the name of the member, what the issue was and if any action was taken or will be taken. Just a short note for posterity! If the minutes are not the proper place (I think you meant to say "not), then what is?
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 06/15/2009 8:02 AM
Robert,

I agree! The minutes are no place for a "he said, she said" narrative. Our recorder (we hire a professional recorder to take our minutes) includes the name of the member, what the issue was and if any action was taken or will be taken. Just a short note for posterity! If the minutes are not the proper place (I think you meant to say "not), then what is?

I meant to say not. IMHO there are very few minutes that are done correctly. Most have all sorts of words about what lead up to a decision.

Gee, if I had all the answers I wouldn't be here.

I don't have the answer to where they should be recorded, just that the minutes are not the place. How about a running list of Homeowners' Concerns and then post them on the HOA website??? As long as it is not part of an official document, I don't really have much of an issue as to where the concerns are kept.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

Well, I don't have all the answers either, but I do have a lot of opinions! LOL

The reason I think the minutes are the proper place is because whoever makes up the agenda for the next meeting will look at the minutes from the last meeting to make certain all the old business is listed. If any action was to be taken as a result of a member addressing the board it will be shown in the minutes and that item can be included in old business on the agenda for the next month's meeting.

I agree there are a lot of minutes that are taken incorrectly. All the he said, she said should be left out and only the important facts reported: "Mr. Green asked why the vegetation was removed from the common area near her home. Pres. Jones stated that vegetation was actually dried wildflowers that had become a fire hazard so it was removed." Short and to the point!
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 06/15/2009 2:33 PM
Robert,

Well, I don't have all the answers either, but I do have a lot of opinions! LOL

The reason I think the minutes are the proper place is because whoever makes up the agenda for the next meeting will look at the minutes from the last meeting to make certain all the old business is listed. If any action was to be taken as a result of a member addressing the board it will be shown in the minutes and that item can be included in old business on the agenda for the next month's meeting.

I agree there are a lot of minutes that are taken incorrectly. All the he said, she said should be left out and only the important facts reported: "Mr. Green asked why the vegetation was removed from the common area near her home. Pres. Jones stated that vegetation was actually dried wildflowers that had become a fire hazard so it was removed." Short and to the point!

If you really believe that only what is done then how can you include the example as that is what was said, not done? Putting in what is said like this example sets the board up for future problems and can be used against the board.

Also, even though it is nit pick, there really should never be old business. There is unfinished business and new business.

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