Satellite Dishes

Started by ThomasC11 • 29 replies • 2669 views

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ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

Can our HOA still prevent owners from installing dishes on the front/street side and roofs of units. We allow them to be installed on the back/greenbelt side. Our new Management company has told me that the FCC allows installation anywhere on the unit amd HOA's have no say.

Is this correct?

TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460

Posted:

A sponsor of this forum - HindmanSanchez.com has an excellent article on satellite dishes.

http://www.imakenews.com/ortenhindman/e_article000171760.cfm

In short, it seems you have some leeway...

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Thomes,

Depending upon whether you live in a condo or a planned community (HOA) will determine what you can and cannot do.

In a nutshell, if you live in a planned community you can put a satellite dish anywhere on the property you own. However, if you live in a condo you can only put the satellite dish in an "exclusive use" area, which will limit you quite a bit. If you can't receive a good signal from that exclusive use area then you're at the mercy of the BOD.

Here's a link to the FCC website where you can download or print the latest information sheet pertaining to rules for "over-the-air reception devices (OTARD). This doc should answer any questions you may have.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Thomas, if your a condo then fire your new manager.

:-)

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

I'd like to do more than fire them. We are and HOA so that tells me that location can be controlled.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

So, by HOA do you mean single-family, detached homes, as opposed to condos or townhomes?

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

Well we are towhhomes, attached, with an HOA.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Tom,

Here's this Townhome thing again! Mary!!!!!!! Tom, if your association has control over the outside maintenance of your unit then your board has control over where the dish's can be mounted on common property, i.e. roofs, siding, etc. Please feel free to flog and raise from the yard arm your manager.

Sounds like your one unit in a multiple unit building Mr. C11.

Feel free to explain why you'd like to fire him (the manager) after everyone has answered your Dish questions.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Tom,

Did you check out the FCC rule that I gave you the url for? If not, please do it now because townhomes are also addressed. Look for the question that asks: "I live in a townhome community. Am I covered by the FCC rule?" The answer is yes, but that's all I'm going to say. You need to look up this doc and read it for yourself. Perhaps print out a copy for the PM, especially if her/his advice to you was wrong.

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

Firing him was a suggestion in an earlier message. I did read the doc and I see that it says we can control where the dishes are installed. Funny how the management company thinks we are all going to believe what they tell us, which was just the opposite.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ThomasC11 on 06/08/2009 4:15 PM
Firing him was a suggestion in an earlier message. I did read the doc and I see that it says we can control where the dishes are installed. Funny how the management company thinks we are all going to believe what they tell us, which was just the opposite.

Healthy skepticism. I like that in complete strangers.

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

You have to be skeptical to survive in our association. We have 900 units and most people have no idea what the rules are so they are easily misled. One neighbor told me she never received, then never bothered to ask for, the CCR's and other docs. So we have quite a mess on our hands. I am trying to straighten the ship or I'll need to move.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

thom,

I was saying the tongue in cheek. But I will say that right off the bat I'm not so far "impressed" with your manager. They should at least know about satellite dish installations for your specific community.

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you're going to have your hands full. :-)

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

I'm glad I found the forum, lots of good people. Next step is to see if Management Co. is liable for the cost of removing the dishes that have been placed inappropriately.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Tom,

Just out of curiosily, why type of townhome is your s/d?

1) Do you own the whole townhouse, including the walls, the roof and the land under the building?
2) Is the townhouse considered a condo, in which you only have exclusive use areas?
3) Or is it a condo/townhouse in which you cannot use the roof, chimney or exterior wall unless the condo assn gives you permission.

Since you want to penalize the mgr for errorenously allowing satellite dish antennas, what about the BOD? The BOD has a resp. to know what the laws are too and should foot some of the resp. Just because the mgr says then can do something doesn't absolve them from liability if that something is wrong. It might be best to just let the incorrectly approved satellite dish antennas stay where they are but notify the member that it must be taken down if, and when, they sell or rent their unit. Then let the members know that from this day forward the BOD is going to adhere to the FCC rules. They can always claim ignorance of the FCC rules!

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

Mary, we are categorized as #2. Your suggestion is a good one. I just checked with our Customer Service rep and he said there are some letters going out to those that installed without approval.

Much to be determined.

TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460

Posted:

Interesting...a townhome classified as a condo. I guess the "townhome" thing is kind of a never-never land... I'm a townhome, but I own land, my back yard, and we have common areas.

Just saying it's interesting...I like reading the definition stuff...

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

Maybe I am incorrect. We are attached units, all 2 story. Not responsible for any maintenance outside the walls. Is that a townhome or condo? Or both?

TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460

Posted:

Hi Thomas!

Your guess might be better than mine! I'm a "townhouse", not responsible for maintenance outside my exterior walls, etc. In Colorado, "townhouse" is *usually* (????) under the condo classification. There's no legal "townhouse/townhome" definition here, and as best as I can tell, our association needs to follow "condo" rules/regs/laws. No worries...I'm not relying on myself to make this decision!!!

I've been asking about the differences between townhomes and condos, and it seems like there are lots of different answers. I'm guessing people here (who know MUCH more than me!!!!) will say to refer to your documents. I refer to mine, and all they say is townhouse/townhome... Maybe it depends on your state. Someone responded from Florida to a different post, and they have "townhome" as a legal definition there...

By the way...I think I would have a serious uproar on my hands if I forced members/owners to re-locate a satellite dish, especially if they incurred an expense to do so. Some of your people have probably had their dish located on "illegal" places, but after a number of years, is it still appropriate to penalize the owners when the BOD didn't enforce? I'm just askin'...but I would think not so much. In my mind, "appropriate" does not equal "legal"... What's best for your community?

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

I think what is best for the commumnity is to get them off of the front of houses and roofs. Taking action the BOD may be too much, but if homeowner did installation on their own (which happens with many things here) they should be responsible for costs.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Tom,

You could be a townhouse that considered a condo or a condo/townhouse, in either case you do not own the walls, roof, exterior walls or the land under the building but you do own a portion of all common areas. Within your townhouse are exclusive use areas designated just for you, perhaps a garage, patio or balcony. If you were a townhouse, you would own the whole townhouse including the walls the roof and the land under the building.

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

Condo/townhouse it is, thanks Mary and all.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Tom,

OK, so now that you've determined exactly what your bldg is, IAW the FCC rule you need to thoroughly check your docs and find out what areas are owned by you or are designated as exclusive use areas for you. As far as mounting a satellite dish antenna, you can only do so on an area owned by you or in an exclusive use area. You may not have many options and you may not get good reception in the area where it can be mounted, but that's what you have to live with. Unless, of course, the BOD is willing to grant exceptions.

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

I checked the application provided by our Association and it gives specific locations for mounting - on the back of each unit or in the front in our carport area. If installed in the front, dish may not be visible from street/common area. This in not the case with most installations I have seen.

I think people have just done what the wanted around here with little or no oversight. If I start reporting all the violations, I look like the bad guy, when all I am trying to do is get my property value up.

AnnJ2 (Colorado)
Posts: 120

Posted:

Thomas,

on a condo (one where the association maintains the outside) the association can control if the dishes are placed on "common area" but not "limitied common area" and only in so far that another location is avialable from which they can get an "adequate" signal. Depending on the orientation of the buildings it amy be that the fronts or sides are the only option in which case you might run into a lawsuit if youdeny them there in every case outright. whether you would win or lose I could not guess. The FCC did pass an update to the satellite requirements not too long ago that in english says limited common area in condos is an area an association can't restrict. I have several associations that have gone to a mastered system for about $1800 (in Colorado dollars) per building and that way no dishes at all are allowed except those in the master system. this might be an option for your associaiton if this is a real touch point with enough board members or owners. You can have pre-approved locations where to place and should have an independent satellite policy in place for all the owners and if you ahve two or three vendors that doe the work in your neighborhood or city, send it to them as well. cover all bases you can to try and avoid future issues.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Ann,

The current fact sheet is dated Dec 2007. I have a copy of the Fact Sheet dated Jul 2005 and there are no changes in later one. The last amendment to the rule was made Oct 25, 2000 and it pertained to antennas that receive and transmit fixed wireless signals. Can you post a link to the updated satellite requirements that you speak of? Thx!

The rule refers to "exclusive use" areas not "limited common areas". I don't live in a condo so I don't know if the two terms are interchangeable or mean different things.

If the front or side of a building is the only area when an acceptable signal can be found, but those are common areas, the assn has the right to deny installation of a satellite dish antenna. The rule is very specific in stating that it does NOT apply to common areas. I don't agree with your opinion that a lawsuit could be filed if it was denied.

A member cannot be denied mounting a satellite dish on an exclusive use area. Therefore, IMO, the "mastered system" you speak of may be unenforceable.

I suggest a thorough re-read of the FCC rule!

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't different satellite systems require different dish orientations for their programming?

If I want to go with a satellite company different from the "master" system, should I not be able to do that?

Or maybe I just need an explanation as to what a "master system" is.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

The light bulb just went on!! Now I'm wondering if this master system, which cost $1,800, doesn't mean the assn has installed the satellite dish antennas and the members must contract with the co whose dish has been installed.

We need more info on this "master system"!!

AnnJ2 (Colorado)
Posts: 120

Posted:

I will have to find the reference but a "Mastered system" is allowed by the FCC. All but one of my associations that has adopted this strategy has done so through their original governing documents which state that there is one. Most have dishes for both direct and Dish so the owners can choose and they can alwyas choose cable over a dish system.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Here are the applicable "questions" regarding a central system (what Ann calls a master system) from the FCC OTARD ruling. Note that everything hedges on there being no unreasonable delay, receiving the type of service wanted and a quality signal, and no extra cost involved.

Q: If my association, building management, landlord, or property owner provides a central antenna, may I install an individual antenna?

A: Generally, the availability of a central antenna may allow the association, landlord, property owner, or other management entity to restrict the installation by individuals of antennas otherwise protected by the rule. Restrictions based on the availability of a central antenna will generally be permissible provided that: (1) the person receives the particular video programming or fixed wireless service that the person desires and could receive with an individual antenna covered under the rule (e.g., the person would be entitled to receive service from a specific provider, not simply a provider selected by the association); (2) the signal quality of transmission to and from the person's home using the central antenna is as good as, or better than, the quality the person could receive or transmit with an individual antenna covered by the rule; (3) the costs associated with the use of the central antenna are not greater than the costs of installation, maintenance and use of an individual antenna covered under the rule; and (4) the requirement to use the central antenna instead of an individual antenna does not unreasonably delay the viewer's ability to receive video programming or fixed wireless services.

Q: May the association, landlord, building management or property owner restrict the installation of an individual antenna because a central antenna will be available in the future?

A: It is not the intent of the Commission to deter or unreasonably delay the installation of individual antennas because a central antenna may become available. However, persons could be required to remove individual antennas once a central antenna is available if the cost of removal is paid by the landlord or association and the user is reimbursed for the value of the antenna. Further, an individual who wants video programming or fixed wireless services other than what is available through the central antenna should not be unreasonably delayed in obtaining the desired programming or services either through modifications to the central antenna, installation of an additional central antenna, or by using an individual antenna.

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