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RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

I am on a committee to find a better HOA management company. I was successful and our new management company will start in August. This action is saving our community approximately $1,000/month. My interest is lower the costs in our community and easing the burden on our home owners. The current board with the exception of one are very arrogant people who think they are better then the other owners and renters. They are very bossy, they never answer questions, they never post anything, and when meetings come up they just say we will look into that. They keep talking about spending more money on items that we do not need and offer no real benefit. If this keeps up they are going to raise our dues again. We are pay $270/month. It use to be $225/month but since a board member wanted the pool heated they raised our rates. The home owners were not even polled. Anyway, we are a small community and the board is always complaining that we do not have enough in reserves. My point is lets get rid of things such as heating a pool to build up our reserve and maybe eventually easing the burden of the homeowner. These are times for saving our resources. They just push me aside. What can I do? I am not political enough to influence people. I am not a smooth talker either. I tried being nice, I tried being mean, nothing works. What can I do to stop the boards reckless spending?

TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460

Posted:

Do your documents allow the BOD to just raise your assessment with no owner/member input?

NancyL4 (California)
Posts: 60

Posted:

In California, the board can raise the dues a maximum of 20% a year without membership approval. It looks like that is what they did. An increase of more than 20% needs a vote of the membership.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Ron,

Reckless spending is in the eye of the beholder!

I'm sure the BOD doesn't think they are spending money recklessly. You say they are "spending money on items that we do not need". Such as??? The board most likely was not required to poll the members before deciding to heat the pool. As Nancy stated the BOD has the authority to raise the dues 20% w/o a vote of the members -- AZ has the same law.

About the only thing you can do is get a group of h/o's together who think like you do and plan a recall of the board members who you think are not doing their jobs right. Or, why not run for a board position and try to make changes from the inside?

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

I could have probably been more descriptive. I say reckless but you are correct. The board members do not think it is reckless. So let me explain. We are a 64 unit complex and we have about 10 empty units. We are not collecting HOA dues for those units. Apparently we do not have enough money in our reserve account. The reason is not only that everyone does not pay but that we spend money on things like heating an 8 foot deep pool. Well if we assume only 54 of the units are paying and the dues were $200 that is $10,800/month. We have no real landscaping or any amenities, just the pool. But, since we do not have enough in our reserve account I think the fiscally wise solution is to turn off unnecessary items like a pool heater to build up our reserve account. But the board members here are very conceited and act like they are better then us non board member home owners. Anyway, long story short is that we never stayed on top of our last management company and no one here kept an eye on the money or where it was going. $10,800/month is plenty for this little complex. The board members raising the HOA dues for a pool heater without the consensus of a majority of homeowners, to me is reckless. It is selfish that the desires of two or three people is costing the other home owners here an additional $600/year each. I can see spending for necessary items like an emergency plumbing issue or a tree happens to be falling down. These people decided they wanted a heated pool and in the words of a current board member, "I don't mind paying more" is disrespectful to the rest of us. Now if they were able to get 50% of the homeowners to say they wanted a heated pool then fine, majority rule.

We live in not the greatest area. We own here because this is the most we can afford. Not one person living here is here because this is their dream home. It is nice but we need to be a little realistic. The economy is bad, we have at least 10 out of 64 units not paying and we are still experiencing foreclosures in our complex. Looking for ways to lower our expenses is the most fiscally wise option. I have secured a new management company that is saving us $1,000/month already. Just spending $1,000 on something else is not the appropriate response.

I mentioned already that two of our three board members are conceited. They really are and when home owners ask questions they are rude and say we will let you know that the next meeting if it is on the agenda. that attitude is just not necessary. They are spending the money because they like saying "I have a heated pool." That is the truth. So to each their own but when you are in a position to spend other people's money you should be responsible and thrifty. I already see where this is heading, they are going to raise the rates yet again to cover their vain needs. Not a good thing for the community in these tough economic times.

Thank you for reading.

EvaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 190

Posted:

Ron,
Hmm… ten foreclosures in such a small community must hurt. How is the management company going to save $1K per months? That is pretty substantial. Let’s hope things will get better for you. We also heat our pool and since we have few seniors the water is kept quite warm during the winter months. We do cover it when not in use of course. I personally do not use the pool – I prefer the ocean – but must pay. Such is life.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Hi Ron,

We still have many gaps in your saga;

Judging by your monthly fee alone I think your a "condo" and not an "HOA" (single family homes wherein you are responsible for siding, roofs, etc. With a condo the association is everything responsbile for everything outside of your unit) Are you a condo?

What is your new monthly management fee going to be? To save a thousand a month and yet get more out of them sends up a red flag to me. To save a thousand alone a month sends up a red flag. Or you were really getting hosed. What did the old one do and what will the new one do? You were on the committee so I assume you know.

Does your board send out minutes? Do you sit in on meetings?

Is your budget covering expenses or are they short on the budget and therefore stealing from the reserves to cover the shortfall?

Considering that you have 15 to 18% of your owners not paying, have the board tried to explain to the owners where they've cut expenses and why? If they are still spending like there's no tomorrow then that needs to stop. Has your board been on top of foreclosure proceedings?

Do you get a finance report yearly to see a breakdown of the future year's budget? Does anyone go to the yearly meetings?

Do you need to remove these guys?

More info needed, I feel.

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Yes you are right we are a condo complex. We do have one car garages that are not attached t our units but the Condo Association said that is entirely the homeowners responsibility to take care of.

We were using one management company that was charging us $2,500/month. The new place charges us $1,200/month. They provide the same service. Plus the old management company is about 40 miles away from our complex while the new one is less then 5 miles away. The old company is use to working with much larger complexes while the new one caters to the smaller complexes like our 64 unit community.

The new board has been "in charge" for about three months now and they have not even posted who the new officers are. Not everyone can make it to the monthly meetings. W have a board by the mail boxes. All they have to do is post on their who everyone is. We also use to have a newsletter and that has not been seen since the new board took over. I go to the meetings but they do not tell us everything. I show up at the next months meeting and they say we spent so much money on something and I ask why didn't you tell us and they respond with, it is not your business. I am sorry but if you are forcing me to pay $270/month it is my business.

They do go over our budget but not in detail. I think they just might not know how to communicate what the budget consists of. I want to know what everything is. I want to know how much we spent on the pool heater, the electric for the lights in the parking lot, the front gate, and anything else. But what I hear is "we collected $15,000 and had accounts payable of $6,000. We are owed $90,000 and have a reserve of $31,000." But then they say we owe $60,000. they will not say for what. Also these are approximate values.

They do not provide the minutes. They sometimes at meetings will have minutes that they will let us look at for a minute or two.

This is what I want. I want complete transparency. I think the board members are hiding expenses for their personal wants, like the pool heater that is never covered. Other expenses as well. I can not give any good examples because they are so secretive and I just don't have the details I need.

Two of the three board members walk around like this is all theirs and in my opinion are rude. But we are not allowed to be rude to them. Just ranting there but they going around telling people how cool they are with the deepest pool in the area and it is heated. I want them removed because I do not believe they have the communities best interest in mind. They are doing nothing to reduce expenses. In fact now they want to install surveillance equipment.

Here is the truth about that. They want full time security and cameras so people who do not live here don't use their precious pool. The board sent over someone to re-paint our pool furniture ( that did not need it) and did not let anyone know. I am out walking to my unit and I see these guys I never seen before painting our pool furniture. In my opinion the furniture looked much better before the painting. Anyway I asked "do you live here?" He had some nasty remark like "who wants to know?" I said "excuse me, this is private property and you need to leave." So it got a little ugly and he said "George, sent me. So what are you going to do about it?" I assume the management companies person we work with because his name is George but at that point I didn't care. I pay the bills here not this painting guy. When he finished he came to my front door and said, " good now I know where you live." So I asked the board to let me know who he was and neither them or the management company will let me know. That make me very angry. I am not America's Sweetheart and I never claimed to be. But I am an owner here and deserve to know when strangers are on the property. That is not only the privilege of the holier then thou board members. They each own the same percentage of the property that I do. If the board was truly interested in security they would have had something to say about that man coming to my door and scaring my wife and twin 8 month old children. They did nothing. I still don't even know the company who this guy works for and no apology.

Anyway I know I am scattered in my explanations. But does anyone see why I am so upset? Apparently we owe money, I get a new management company that will save us $1,000/month, and instead of the board looking for ways to save money they are looking at spending even more. That is why I am concerned that they are going to raise the rates to pay for un-needed items or services that are ordered by one or two persons. They don't tell us what is going on. I think the board members should always look for ways to be economical. They should also at least try to get a consensus of more homeowners even if they do not make it to meetings. We had a meeting and six home owners showed up. Two people on the board want to do something and the remaining four people there say no. However, those two people still do what ever they want.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Ron,

Whereas some of the info you think your should have (like advance notice that a painter would be on the property) is not info the board must give to the members, financial info is another matter. The board should have a financial statement at each monthly meeting and review the income and expenses for the prior month. As a member you have a right to ask for copies of the financial statement. Check out the Davis Stirling Act to see exactly what your rights are in regard to inspection of records. As for minutes, some boards will call for a motion to dispense with reading of the minutes since all board members have them. But the Pres should ask if any additions or corrections are required before calling for a motion to accept the minutes. You seem to think the board has an obligation to inform the members of every little thing they do; this is definitely not the case. If you want to know everything then I suggest you run for a position on the board. I suggest you read all your gov docs very carefully so you will know exactly what powers the BOD has and what rights the members have. Before calling for removal of these board members make certain you have proof that they have violated certain provisions of the gov docs. It sounds like your board may have a communication problem but that is not an indication of wrongdoing. And if what you say is true, it also sounds like the majority of the board is letting one or two members do things on their own. This is certainly not good but does happen frequently. Oftentimes board members will allow the Pres to do as he/she pleases w/o obtaining a vote of the board members. All members serving on the board should be aware that decisions should be made by a majority of the board. No one board member has more power than another. But, if your board members are allowing one or two board members to make most of the decisions on their own there really isn't much you can do about it.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Yeah Ron, as far as workers on the property you need to chill out a bit. :-)

I'm still a bit confused on the number of board members as I'm not sure whether you have 3 or 6 by your comments. And is the entire board new or just 2 or 3 members? And how is it that this minority of 2(?) became so powerful or even got on the board? You make it sound like things were good with the old board and then these guys got on? How the the silent majority of board members get along with you?

And if you're so hated by the board how is it that you were chosen to be on a committee?

You have rights to see documents; now that your manager is 5 miles away, go see them to your heart's content.

Sounds like life for you is far from joyful in your little village Ron.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

I hate to say this, but I think this is a little skewed.

The new board is only in business for 3 months, and yet we get a flavor from Ron that they have a history of poor communication and poor performance that belies their 3-month tenure.

Claiming they never post minutes...how often are the board meetings? Oh, yes, one per month and most people don't have the time to attend every month. All of three months ago every month.

I would imagine there is a transition, getting up to speed time period that the new board would have.

Give them a little time to create a legitimate "bad history" timeline.

Also, you sound like a very concerned resident. And many times concerned residents and directors of boards have very legitimate differences of opinion as to what is good policy and what isn't.

I think you want to "sell" us on your idea that the heating of the pool is a "bad" idea, while also selling us that the board's position that it's needed is reckless.

I don't think that's really the kind of thing any of us should be weighing in on since there is no way we can know or understand your development's key issues and priorities.

At any rate, I would agree that the board should communicate better, but then all boards should, including mine.

The thing is, honest people will have honest disagreement over what constitutes "better" communication in each individual case.

I say, give it time. They'll work it out. You can help!

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Well, as far as the workers are concerned I think I should be notified. You might not have children, I have two 9 month old twins. Now, all you have to do is read CNN or Fox News and there are quite a few child abductions. Abductions by workers on private property. I can't go onto private property without someone questioning why I am there. Try it sometime. Plus if a resident asks who you are you should identify yourself. Perhaps on this we will disagree. The guy in the pool was not wearing any kind of uniform and refused to tell me who he was. Then coming to my door and saying "good now I know where you live" is not acceptable. Dana, you and I might disagree, but the neighborhood we live in is not the best or safest. Then again it is not "bad." If we were in the picket fence middle class American area then I might not be as concerned but posting when people are coming in should be done. Not guests of residents but when workers are going to be here. Especially in the common area and with paint. I have rented apartments where management would inform us of workers coming. Just one little post on our bulletin board is not asking much. Plus the board ordered the service for painting the chairs and it was not needed. They were nice wooden pool furniture and stored for most of the year. They already had protective varnish on them. They only come out in summer and they were in excellent condition. They looked so nice too. The pool furniture was a nice light wood color but now they are kind of nasty looking. But that is just opinion. Once again my point is, we apparently are low on funds and we still owe for some things done to the complex about 6 years ago. I think the best thing the board members can do is figure out a way to pay off our debts before painting pool furniture. Anyway maybe you are a board member for your community and you might think differently from me. But if we are in the hole financially then we should pay what we owe before doing projects that can wait. Especially since a good portion of units are in foreclosure and we are not getting payments from them. This is not a fancy place and the area is not great. the only reason any of us purchased a condo here was because we can not afford it anywhere else. This complex and location is not a first choice for anyone. However like I said not "bad."

We have three board members. One thinks like me and believes $270/month in this complex is not needed and we should be cautious about how we spend the money. The board has been around for about 3 months. Now, Michele, I understand what you are saying and on the surface I agree with the idea of "giving them a chance." The problem with that is one of the board members is from the old board and she seemed to be a problem. She says she is going to do something but never does it. She is the type of person who will come into your house and tell you, you are doing everything wrong. She has a young daughter and told us that we should use washable diapers. Now as you read that you are thinking, "so what." Well I can not describe it as good as I would like to but it was in a very I AM BETTER THEN YOU way. I am not sure if that makes sense. They are very snooty and act like they are better then everyone else. Every time I speak with the two snooty board members I am surprised they do not say, "that is on a need to know basis and you do not need to know." Just my opinion but I am sick of the "tude."
Plus, I am paying so transparency on what is going on is essential.

I am friends with the former president and we do disagree on many issues but everyone is different and I understand that. We have had graffiti on the roof of one of our buildings for three months now. At the meetings we ask, "What is the plan for cleaning up the graffiti?" All we hear is "We are working on that." Maybe letting us know where they are on the project would be better. However they are very interested in talking about keeping the pool heater on and painting the furniture and spending thousands of dollars on surveillance equipment in hopes of keeping those pesky teenagers out of the pool. I was a teenager and sneaked into many places. When I was caught I was asked to leave. There are slightly bigger fish to fry. We also have a problem with the keys to enter our complex. They do not work. Once again we are on the third month.

One other bit of information, one of the former board members is about two months behind on their HOA dues. (yes it is a condo but they insist on calling it HOA here) Anyway two of the board members were talking openly about this persons delinquency openly to non board members out doors. This person heard them and asked not to put their business in the streets. I think something is wrong there.

Anyway another point I have is that at least two of the current three board members have no interest in the community. They are concerned with bragging rights. You ask for proof, I do not have it. But when I am told we do not have money and the only point of interest is having the pool heated makes me think these people are a little out of touch. I do not think the previous board was much better. My concern is spending our money wisely and board members treating the other homeowners with the same dignity they expect to have. I do not care if they are nice or mean but if you are in a position of responsibility for the community and a fellow home owner asks, "So what if anything has been done to take care of the graffiti?" Or "What is going to be done about the locks to the front gate we use to enter the complex?" At least say we do not know yet. But replying with "we are working on it, we will let you know when it is necessary" and while only being half way through the sentence they have already turned around and walked away and waved their hand in a dismissive manner just does not sit well with me. It is a volunteer position. It does not mean you are better then everyone else.

So, I stated in an earlier post, I am not good at explaining things but I hope this clears up a few questions. The previous board did not stay on top of the expenditures or the management company. The new board seems to be more interested in "Pool Stuff" and not what we need to do to pay what we owe or the better manage our expenses.

We are in California. For people who do not live in California.....this is a weird place. Kind of backwards. It is as though the people here are in a dream land. It seems that the people in Califonia thinks money grows on trees. I never thought I would say something like that, LOL. The money is low and we are not collecting all the fees so instead of concentrating on how to get the fees and how to pay off our debt the board just spends money and walks around saying "we have the deepest pool and it is heated." In a tough economy and a large percentage of foreclosures and short sales in our complex I am more interested in being fiscally sound. Now if there is structure damage or the roof is falling off by all means let us fix it ASAP.

I am sure I will get the same responses from you guys because although English is my first language I can never seem to express my self or what it is I am trying to say. Always been a math guy ad not an English guy. So, thank you for reading. Feel free to let me know your thought. I just don't know what to do. I feel if we stay on this path they are just going to raise the dues again. Both my wife and I were laid off last December when our children were four months old. We are getting by OK but the money will run out. People are still being laid off. My concern is other homeowners will be laid off and we will collect even less. I am paid in full for now.

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Dana - I was pushing the former President to look into new HOA management companies that would be a better price for our community. She did not think I was going to actually do it so she said "OK you are in charge of the new HOA management search." But she is cool, we are and have been friends. The new President is very anti ME. That is OK. LOL

KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665

Posted:

Two oberservations:

1) The Board members were elected. If you don't like their actions then elect new members.

2) You should not allow the 10 empty units to choose not to pay. You need to place a lien and foreclose when possible. Unfortunately many people believe banks are not subject to foreclosure rules. But if they don't pay the fees after they become owners, then those units can be foreclosed the same as any other. (Except the bank is very unlikely to let that happen and will instead send money.)

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Ron,

It sounds like you're really mostly upset about the pool furniture being painted and the fact that the painter wasn't announced is just icing on that cake.

There are 2 board members you just don't like -- they seem to just rub you the wrong way; so everything they do is wrong. Try to be a little more objective; keep personalities out of it.

SO the board priorities are different than your; that doesn't make them wrong and you right. However if you can find other members who agree with you then register a complaint at the next board meeting. Demand answers, not just "We're working on it". Pin them down, ask exactly what is being done. There is power in numbers.

It's only your opinion that some of the board members have no interest in the community. I'm guessing it's the same 2 you don't like!!

I'm sorry to hear of your job losses. I know how hard that can be, both financially and emotionally. I also understand you are very concerned about the finances of the assn. Are you saying the board isn't doing anything at all to collect delinquent assessments? If that's the case then I would have a hard time remaining quiet too. Suggest they adopt a collection policy and stick to it. Get your friends together and make this demand enmasse!

I know it's sometimes difficult to get your point across, especially in this medium. If we all were speaking face to face we might have a different perspective of where you're coming from. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you do have important issues with the board (mainly the delinquencies), but I think you should let go of some of the other things. Just concentrate on what is most important and that, IMO, is getting the delinquencies under control.

Good luck!

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Ron, you are in a tough spot.

It sounds as though you have always been a vocal person within your community as you stated that the past President made you the "management search committee" more in hopes to give you a job to shut you up but lo and behold you went to work and found a management company. Good for you.

It sounds like you had two board members get off the board and two get on 3 months ago. You should only be having one a year get off; why the second? Then to make matters worse the one that did stay doesn't do much but make promises in your opinion.

Do you think that the board is looking to install camera's to not only view the pool but the entire complex? To perhaps also catch people spray painting roofs? Now personally with the shortage in income due to non payers I think that the board should be pushing more for a neighborhood watch but perhaps people living there wouldn't want to get involved. It's difficult to get people involved nowadays.

You seem to have your priorities in order for your association Ron, perhaps you should take Mary's advice and avoid the personal criticism of these current board members and instead try to voice your concerns to your neighbors to make them aware of what the board should be focusing on. Did you try running for the board in the last election? If not, why?

Sometimes owners complain about things that "they" feel the board is doing wrong or not doing at all; these people aren't privy to all the items that the board is dealing with so they pass judgement without knowing the all the facts. In your particular case I don't think you fall under the heading of one of these owners but without being a board member you don't see all the information from the management company that they do.

It seems from your point of view that you have poor communition to owners, the board is not addressing delinquincies, they are misusing "limited" funds on non-essential items(heating pool, painting furniture, installing cameras (for pool only?)), and they are unwilling to supply owners with association documents and financial information when requested (as required by law). Bring "these" concerns to your neighbors, get them involved. Who knows, you could find yourself President soon enough. This process is a major undertaking and requires alot of time and hard work. You could end up investing all this time and failing. Only you know if the battle is worth it or do you bide your time and move when the option shows itself.

Good luck,

Dana

Good luck.

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Well, thank you all for your input. I agree with everything said.

We actually tried having a neighborhood watch thing but we were told that 65% or more of the units would have to be present at the first neighborhood watch meeting. That was before we moved in last year. Sounds weird to me but that is what they said. I'll have to check into it.

I am laughing while typing this part but I do not want to be on the board. After all my ranting and raving you would think that is what I want. I like to not get involved. LOL But I am concerned because I think our dues are way too high and I fear they will be raised again. I want to have a board who focuses on saving our money. I am a very conservative person but here in California it is very liberal. Friends of mine who once lived in California tell me how people in other states do not want former California residents in their neighborhood. The California people bring their CC&R ideas with them. It is very strict out here.

Anyway thank you again for all the advice. I so appreciate everyone taking their time to consult me about this. Now I will take all I learned from you and do my best. Enjoy the rest of the weekend.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

I think you don't want to be on the board because you don't want other members picking on you and treating you the way you are treating the current board members.

I'm sorry, but you are just being completely unfair and refuse to look at this from their perspective.

For one thing, this is not their 9-5 job. They have only been on the board for THREE MONTHS, and you have a litany of things they should have already dealt with or have had a plan for.

I'm sorry, but that's just unfair and I think you know it.

I'm quite sure they are "working" on a plan for the graffiti. But you also want them working on a plan for communicating better, for informing people better when "workers" are going to be in "common areas," for painting pool stuff. . . and also for dealing with a new management company and a new board, not to mention, I'm sure, a ton of other stuff on your list of things they don't do or do badly.

In. Three. Months.

Now, come back in 9 months with these complaints and I'm right behind you. But 3 months? Sorry I'm sensing a strong bias on your part.

But, again, don't be part of the board -- which would then make you part of the solution.

Of course, it would also make you accountable for your words, as well.

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

I understand your point of view Michael but I know these people. One of the board members is from the old board. Plus the old board was not good either. The economy here is very bad and we have more and more home owners being laid off all the time. We owe a lot of money and the board never talks about how to save money, just spending more.

I was picked on, called names, beat up, and oppressed a lot growing up. People not liking me is not a concern of mine. I just do not care about such things. I do not care if anyone likes me. So no I am not on the board because of your suggestion. I am not on it because The people I see on the board are ridiculous and act like they are better then everyone else. It is pathetic in my point of view. To me the "board" should be a few people who volunteer to make sure if something happens or is needed on the property they will call the most appropriate places to "fix" the problem. This idea that these people know everything and do not have to tell other homeowners to me is a joke. I pay the same dues they do so I should have all the same information.

However thank you so much for giving me another point of view. If we agree or not it does not matter. It gives me other points of views and ideas to help me make the best possible decisions and for that I am very grateful. I think I get your message. If I am so concerned and do not make an attempt to be on the board then what good am I. Apparently the only way to be a "solution" is to be on the board. So, I will do just that. Thank you again.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonH5 on 06/07/2009 1:07 PM
Well, thank you all for your input. I agree with everything said.

After all my ranting and raving you would think that is what I want. I like to not get involved. I want to have a board who focuses on saving our money.

Ron,

Glad you find humor in watching your home value drop into the toilet. How much did your home cost?

"Let's see, they're all inept, I've got good ideas, but instead I'll just sit back and b*%^h!"

Many of us couldn't afford to let that happen to our investments and that's why we got involved. Now with this economy it's all the more reason to have boards made up of the best of the best.

As far as not wanting to get on the board; at least you didn't use the excuse that you don't have time; since your unemployed.

I hope that your able to start setting a better example of yourself during your kids' impressionable years.

As we read about another California association going bankrupt in the future we'll think of you. And perhaps we'll chuckle too.

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Hi Dana,

Well I might have upset you with my previous reply but I think I might not have stated it well. Anyway, the home values here have nothing to do with the HOA. In California it is location, not what the HOA does or has. The concept of quality left California long before our time.

Humor in loss of property value - no. That is very sad and I find no humor in that. We have two condo complexes on this street. Each unit is basically the same. They look the same too. The fact that we have a heated pool does nothing to the value. The units in the complex without the heated pool go for the same amount. If the HOA in any complex here in California did anything to the value of the property it would be a miracle. The value is in the location and that is all.

The reason so many California associations go bankrupt is because they do what our association does. They do not plan for the future and instead of saving money they just spend, spend, spend. My whole point with these posts is to find out how to prevent that. Apparently you are not in California. That is good for you. It is nuts here. People here feel the need to tell everyone else what they can and can not do. For me I do not feel it is anyone's right to tell someone else what to do with their own home. Telling someone they can only have white blinds for window coverings to me is insane. Let the home owner choose the color window covering they want. That is why I do not want to be on the board. It is not my intention or desire to tell anyone what they can do with their own condo. To me that is infringing on people's rights to express themselves. I do not know if that makes any sense to you.

What I was previously doing was trying to make "light" of a "heavy" situation. I sound like someone who wants to be the HOA president. In probably any state out of California maybe. But in California it is all rules and telling people what they can and can not do. But in this situation I might have to join the board as the only hope to keep costs from getting out of control.

I am sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention but thank you for your input. It will help me make better decisions.

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Just a quick note, I don't think being on an HOA telling other residents what the can do is a good influence on children. For my children I want to influence them to think for themselves and make their own decisions while allowing others to do the same. Not to be someone who tells others what they can or can not do or let others tell them what they can or can not do. To me that is all about personal freedom. I want my children to be free thinkers and to allow others to be free thinkers.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonH5 on 06/07/2009 6:19 PM

The reason so many California associations go bankrupt is because they do what our association does. They do not plan for the future and instead of saving money they just spend, spend, spend.

Thanks for clearing that one up. So the reason for the world's financial collapse is due to condo associations overspending of funds.

You do have a sense of humor.

KarlA1 (Florida)
Posts: 84

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonH5 on 06/07/2009 6:27 PM
Just a quick note, I don't think being on an HOA telling other residents what the can do is a good influence on children. For my children I want to influence them to think for themselves and make their own decisions while allowing others to do the same. Not to be someone who tells others what they can or can not do or let others tell them what they can or can not do. To me that is all about personal freedom. I want my children to be free thinkers and to allow others to be free thinkers.

Hi Ron,

it took me a while to read all this, but I a few things to say.

1) Pool Heater
I agree with you. The BoD should not have purchased a pool heater if there is no money anyways, besides I do believe they also should have asked the members first.

2) Workers on the property
I don't live in a Condominium complex, but in a Homeowners' Association, which is governed by different laws than Condos here in Florida, but I don't feel that it is necessary to inform every homeowner about workers on the property. We have the landscaper come 3 times a month, do you have any idea how much administrative work that would be to inform every single homeowner?

3) HOA telling other residents what they can do
Well I have to tell you one thing about this ... if you don't like to be told what you can and can't do, then don't own anything that is governed by an HOA. HOA's have rules and regulations and they need to be followed in order to keep peace in the community. And I don't think that this has anything to do with being a free thinker. It just tells you that you have rules to follow, and don't you have to do that your whole live, no matter where you go or what you do?

4) Regarding your President
I know there are ways to recall an officer from his position. Here in Florida I do believe that you need 75% of the homeowners who sign a petition and the officer can be recalled. You have to check your local laws on that and if there is something like that, get enough signatures from the rest of the homeowners and throw your president out.

Cheers
Karl Artner

Cheers
Karl

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Dana,
LOL well I do not know if you hate me or think I am alright but I do like to think I have a sense of humor somewhere in me. No I do not think the world financial situation is due to poor Condo Association management. But Condo and HOA associations in California do go bankrupt quite often. I fear ours might end up in bankruptcy.

But on a larger scale maybe it is similar to why there is financial instability in the United States and the world but that is another conversation that might not be appropriate for this venue.

Karl,
Thank you for your input. I agree with your comments about rules and keeping peace in the community. In Florida it might be different or it may be the same. I do not know. In California it is so strict. For a place that is known for being very liberal it is like living somewhere that has rules for every move you make. When we first moved into our condo we picked out some very nice and expensive blinds for our windows. They were wood and match the floors. They would not let us install them because one of the rules is you must have white only window coverings. I was told it is so people will not hang sponge bob square pants sheets as window coverings. I think having bed sheets as window coverings is a bad choice but what is wrong with custom blinds that match the actual condo? Just make a rule that says no bed sheets as window coverings. Anyway I am sure many would disagree with me but I would prefer to be a little more creative with my home. $255,000 for what is basically a two bedroom apartment is a lot of money. I would like to make some of my own rules for my home. Anyway thank you for your input.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonH5 on 06/07/2009 10:13 PM
Dana,
LOL well I do not know if you hate me or think I am alright but I do like to think I have a sense of humor somewhere in me. No I do not think the world financial situation is due to poor Condo Association management. But Condo and HOA associations in California do go bankrupt quite often. I fear ours might end up in bankruptcy.

But on a larger scale maybe it is similar to why there is financial instability in the United States and the world but that is another conversation that might not be appropriate for this venue.

Karl,
Thank you for your input. I agree with your comments about rules and keeping peace in the community. In Florida it might be different or it may be the same. I do not know. In California it is so strict. For a place that is known for being very liberal it is like living somewhere that has rules for every move you make. When we first moved into our condo we picked out some very nice and expensive blinds for our windows. They were wood and match the floors. They would not let us install them because one of the rules is you must have white only window coverings. I was told it is so people will not hang sponge bob square pants sheets as window coverings. I think having bed sheets as window coverings is a bad choice but what is wrong with custom blinds that match the actual condo? Just make a rule that says no bed sheets as window coverings. Anyway I am sure many would disagree with me but I would prefer to be a little more creative with my home. $255,000 for what is basically a two bedroom apartment is a lot of money. I would like to make some of my own rules for my home. Anyway thank you for your input.

Ron,

I don't hate you. I don't agree with your views on some things but none of us agree on everything.

The more comments you make the more I believe you didn't spend much time examining your Documents before plunking down a quarter of a million dollars. But you will bee much wiser with your next purchase I'm sure. May I suggest 4,000 acres in Montana might suit you better? Not many people would care what color your window blinds are there. ;-)

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

HA, that is funny because my wish is to get a great job offer somewhere outside of California where we could buy an actually house for less then what we paid for a 950 sqft 2 bedroom. But you are right I didn't spend anytime with HOA documents before buying. It is our first home but we know better now. But the reason we bought this condo was because it was what we could afford. Believe it or not that is cheap here. I don't think anyone in this complex bought here for any reason other then they could not afford better. Our unit was a short sale. Quite a few other short sales here defaulted into foreclosure.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonH5 on 06/07/2009 11:48 PM
HA, that is funny because my wish is to get a great job offer somewhere outside of California where we could buy an actually house for less then what we paid for a 950 sqft 2 bedroom. But you are right I didn't spend anytime with HOA documents before buying. It is our first home but we know better now. But the reason we bought this condo was because it was what we could afford. Believe it or not that is cheap here. I don't think anyone in this complex bought here for any reason other then they could not afford better. Our unit was a short sale. Quite a few other short sales here defaulted into foreclosure.

And yet, you think you know better than the people who cared enough about their purchase to step up to the plate and actually get involved with the HOA.

Now I understand.

Fire them all.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

No Michele, they can't be fired because no one wants to take their place!

But they don't mind telling the board how to do their jobs. :-)

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Hi Dana and Michele,

I think you still do not get it. I do CARE about my place and the community and believe I care more. They average resident here is having a hard time paying the current HOA dues. I want the board to be more conservative with the money we have to ease the burden on the other home owners. We owe lots of money and are not getting enough dues paid. It is simple math, if you want to buy a $10 item and you only have $5 then you can not buy the $10 item. If the board keeps buying products and services that cost more then we can afford then we will get into a financial problem.

Stepping up to the plate has nothing to do with it and if you actually read what I said in my posts then maybe you would know. These are not people trying to make this a better place. One member wants video cameras NOT for security but because she is sick of the teenagers next door sneaking into the pool. A big expense because and adult is afraid to tell a 12 year old to leave their property.

So I do care about my purchase however you must compare apples with apples. You can treat a one dollar bill like a one hundred dollar bill all you like but at the end of the day you can only buy one dollar worth of goods and services. Perhaps you have difficulty with simple math so I will give you a pass with that. However if you can not add and have no concept of fiscal responsibility then you are no help to your own HOA or me. There are ways to make your home and community a better place to live without spending other people's hard earned money. Please only critical thinking. Just spending to make yourself feel better is not necessarily good for your community. But then again maybe you are board members with the same personality like the board members here. You think you are better then the rest of us. Perhaps I am just the proletariat and you are the bourgeoisie. But I prefer to avoid communism.

So in order to be cool like you instead of paying the mortgage and feeding my children I will get the inside of the condo re-done. Oh there is not enough money but I want to be just like you and spend into bankruptcy. You probably don't get the joke here but if you could actually read and understand what I have been saying the past few days I wouldn't have to explain.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Ron,

I understand what you're saying and I understand your frustration, as I'm sure Dana and Michele do too. So, please take my advice as suggested in an earlier response, get your neighbors together (the ones who think like you) and demand that the board show more fiscal resp. Tell them, line by line, what you think they are not doing and what you think they should be doing. Demand answers, not just "we're working on it". If you don't ask the questions you'll never have the answers. Not having the answers leads to speculation and speculation leads to thinking there's some wrongdoing. This is not good for the assn. You may be surprised to find that they are going after the delinquencies. I wouldn't be worrying about the pool heater, the grafitti, painting the pool furniture, not informing members when a contractor is on site, etc, etc. Concentrate on the big issues!

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Ron,

One other thing I meant to mention. . .

IMO, whether or not you want to be a board member is a moot point. If you feel there are serious problems the board is not addressing, you have a right to call them on it. Just be sure your have all your facts straight. What happens all to often is that the people who complain the most are the ones who never want to step up to the plate and do their part. And in many instances they are people who don't know what they're talking about and just end up stirring up a lot of trouble for the BOD. HOAs are volunteer assn's so every member has a resp. to be involved and help out. But in most instances it's only a few who are willing to take on that resp. I think that is the crux of what Dana and Michele are trying to get across to you.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaryA1 on 06/08/2009 9:21 AM
Ron,

One other thing I meant to mention. . .

IMO, whether or not you want to be a board member is a moot point. If you feel there are serious problems the board is not addressing, you have a right to call them on it. Just be sure your have all your facts straight. What happens all to often is that the people who complain the most are the ones who never want to step up to the plate and do their part. And in many instances they are people who don't know what they're talking about and just end up stirring up a lot of trouble for the BOD. HOAs are volunteer assn's so every member has a resp. to be involved and help out. But in most instances it's only a few who are willing to take on that resp. I think that is the crux of what Dana and Michele are trying to get across to you.

Mary, once again you nailed it.

Ron, although I’m very busy today updating our CC&R’s, meeting a painter, the manager, a tree contractor, 2 owners, and dealing with 20 plus emails I want to give you the time you deserve.

I’ve put some of your quotes from this entire post here and would like to show you how you have become the people you despise, those being your board members. From your first post to your last this is how the conversation has gone. (Now when I say “go to” I want you to reread your post at that number.)

1) ”I can not give any good examples because they are so secretive and I just don't have the details I need.” Kind of hard to prove any misuse of funds. If you got on the board then this would be easier to prove or disprove. You know that old saying keep your friends close but your enemies closer?

2) “I think the board members are hiding expenses for their personal wants, like the pool heater that is never covered. Other expenses as well. I can not give any good examples because they are so secretive and I just don't have the details I need.” Go back to number 1.

3) “Well I can not describe it as good as I would like to but it was in a very I AM BETTER THEN YOU way.” Now make sure you remember saying this one, this was your board talking to you.

4) ”They are very snooty and act like they are better then everyone else.” Remember this one too please.

5) ”You ask for proof, I do not have it.” And there is that lack of proof again.

6) ”Always been a math guy ad not an English guy.” I’ll get back to this one…….bear with me.

7) ”Both my wife and I were laid off last December when our children were four months old. We are getting by OK but the money will run out.” That’s pretty good use of math there.

8) ”Well, thank you all for your input. I agree with everything said.” Nice to know I said something right so I must have been reading so far.

9) ”I like to not get involved.” This doesn’t help for numbers 1,2, or 5.

10) “Plus the old board was not good either.” Go back to number 9. And I suppose numbers 1, 2, and 5 applied to them also?

11) “The reason so many California associations go bankrupt is because they do what our association does. They do not plan for the future and instead of saving money they just spend, spend, spend.” Go to 1, 2, 5, 7, 9, and 10.

12) “I am sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention but thank you for your input.” I guess I’ve still been paying attention so far.

13) “For my children I want to influence them to think for themselves and make their own decisions while allowing others to do the same. Not to be someone who tells others what they can or can not do or let others tell them what they can or can not do. To me that is all about personal freedom. I want my children to be free thinkers and to allow others to be free thinkers.” Is this not just what your board is doing and yet you are trying to tell them what they can or cannot do. You are not willing to let them be “free thinkers!

14) “No I do not think the world financial situation is due to poor Condo Association management. But Condo and HOA associations in California do go bankrupt quite often.” The learning curve has started.

15) “$255,000 for what is basically a two bedroom apartment is a lot of money.” Yup, it sure is.

16) “But you are right I didn't spend any time with HOA documents before buying.” So far here’s proof that I’m still paying attention.

17) “Our unit was a short sale. Quite a few other short sales here defaulted into foreclosure.” Go back to number 15, 6, and 9.

18) “I think you still do not get it.” Uh oh, I guess the phone rang. But wait, go to 16, 12, and 8.

19) “Stepping up to the plate has nothing to do with it and if you actually read what I said in my posts then maybe you would know. Stepping up to the plate has everything to do with it. Go to 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17.

20) “Perhaps you have difficulty with simple math so I will give you a pass with that. However if you can not add and have no concept of fiscal responsibility then you are no help to your own HOA or me. Gosh Ron, your sounding like your board now, go to numbers 3and 4. Apply 13 also.

21) “But then again maybe you are board members with the same personality like the board members here. You think you are better then the rest of us.” Reread 20 and go to 3 and 4. Apply 13 also.

22) “So in order to be cool like you instead of paying the mortgage and feeding my children I will get the inside of the condo re-done.” Reread 21, 20, 3, and 4.

23)You probably don't get the joke here but if you could actually read and understand what I have been saying the past few days I wouldn't have to explain.” Apply 13, read 22, 21, 20, 3, 4. Then 12, 6, and finally 9 again.

Gee Ron, in two pages of posts you became what you hate. Funny how that works eh? And what you hope to instill in your children you don’t live by yourself.

Now that everyone has a had a good laugh(I hope so as this took some time). Go back to Mary’s post as she is wise beyond her years; find out some facts, look at the big picture, protect your quarter mil investment, and help if you can.

At this point I don’t care if I offended you but I hope I showed you that I at least paid attention.
Oh and Ron? I owe 60K on a home worth 225 so I guess I “am” pretty good with math. And zero foreclosures(Mary, that unit paid up), we have money in reserves(thanks to my board, not the previous one); all this because I didn’t follow your rule number “9”.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Dana,

What an exhaustive report!! It appears you have far more time on your hands than I do. I hope Ron takes what you have said to heart and that he realizes you are really just trying to help him deal with this situation, otherwise you wouldn't have taken so much time to respond to him. You make some very good points in your narrative, but I really had to chuckle at your remark that I am wise beyond my years. Methinks you don't know how many years I have on me. But, I do thank you for the compliment!

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

I have read and understood what you have written, but Dana's "roadmap" was a great refresher!

I understand possibly more than you care for me to understand, which may be what has bristled you.

But I'm not so sure that the board is spending money it doesn't have, and apparently neither do you.

It's just spending under different priorities than you would like.

Again, you don't mind telling them what to do, and you don't mind being judgmental with them, and by your own admission you've never lived in an HOA before and basically don't even really know your own documents.

So you can be flip and sarcastic with me and Dana all you want, but that doesn't address your issues.

Now, in no way do I think any of us are "better than you," but it's clear that is your "go to" whine when people disagree.

There is place for legitimate disagreement.

Mary is dead on, too.

Basically, I'm still not sure what you wanted from us. Confirmation of how sneaky and irresponsible your board is and how wise and fair and "better than them" you are?

Unfortunately, not knowing your documents, not knowing your board and not knowing your neighbors, we just simply can't get in that line for you.

But you can help yourself by getting involved.

Opps. Sorry. Didn't mean to offer up that again.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Your welcome Mary; with over 4,000 posts under your garter you've given a lot of advice. Unlike mine I think most of yours has been appreciated.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Dana,

I'm sure your advice has been much appreciated; I certainly cannot imagine why it wouldn't be. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

EvaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 190

Posted:

Dear Ron,

I have not read in detail everything on this post because I do not think most of it is relevant. But, let me assure that many associations are cutting back on operating expenses drastically. Insurance? No.
But security guards and pool heating expenses, sprinkle systems and etc, all are a subject to major cuts. Do what you think is right for you. But do pick your fights.
There may not be such a thing as transparent BOD and there is no such a thing as perfect Government anywhere in the world either. Hey, you have little baby twins enjoy them... there is life beyond the association living.

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Eva

You are the voice of reason I was searching for. Basically the board is spending more each month then we collect each month. Eventually if you do that you will run out of money. Being we owe so much for previous projects I suggest to the board we cut cost. They however insist on spending even more. I fear we will end up bankrupt and that is not good for anyone. I think we should make cut backs.

I needed to know from this forum if asking the board to turn off the pool heater and maybe delaying video camera purchases was asking too much. Or if asking for cut backs was a crazy thing to do. So thank you. I want to save money and maybe even find out how to lower HOA fees in our community because many residents here are being laid off. So having lower monthly expenses might help some of us.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonH5 on 06/08/2009 6:34 PM
Eva

You are the voice of reason I was searching for. Basically the board is spending more each month then we collect each month. Eventually if you do that you will run out of money. Being we owe so much for previous projects I suggest to the board we cut cost. They however insist on spending even more. I fear we will end up bankrupt and that is not good for anyone. I think we should make cut backs.

I needed to know from this forum if asking the board to turn off the pool heater and maybe delaying video camera purchases was asking too much. Or if asking for cut backs was a crazy thing to do. So thank you. I want to save money and maybe even find out how to lower HOA fees in our community because many residents here are being laid off. So having lower monthly expenses might help some of us.

You just wanted to know if asking them to turn off the heater or delay the video camera purchase was asking too much? Why would you need a group of complete strangers to ask something like that from your board?

I don't think there's any regular poster here who would think that making a request of your board is ever "asking too much." The act of engaging and interacting with your board is always a good thing.

But I think what you're really saying is that you wanted to have a group of complete strangers completely agree with your version of what the BOD's priorities specifically should be.

Sorry, but without providing us with the details of the budget, it's virtually impossible for any of us to provide you with the level of advice you seem to require.

You can continue to imply the outgo is more than the intake, but, we don't know that. We don't know that you know that. We only know that you somehow resent the pool heater.

And without knowing what their budget is, what strategic plans they may have, where their priorities are, etc etc, there is no way in the world we can say, "Yup, they're on the wrong track."

The people to whom you need to direct that inquiry, and who are in a position to either agree or disagree are your fellow neighbors.

Those are the only people from whom you need agreement.

Otherwise, even if we did somehow agree without having enough information (other than your claim of "they're spending too much"), what could you do with that agreement? Nothing. Nada. Zip.

You're right where you started.

On the other hand, if you can convince or obtain agreement from the majority of the homeowners in your own development, what can you do with that agreement?!

Oh, I know, you can use that majority agreement (in the form of a 'vote') to affect some sort of change from the BOD.

Opps. There I go again, thinking you want to get involved! My bad!

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Well the reason why I need to know from this or any other forum is because when I ask at the board meetings they never answer. I always get we are working on it or it is not available yet. For the past year I have been asking for the financials but have yet to receive financials. What I can piece to gether is that about 5 years ago the complex had to be tented for termites. Exactly when and how much is apparently a secret. I do not know why. Anyway, It may have cost $320,000. Again I do not know for sure but this is what I pieced together. The association apparently did not have enough to cover the cost and had a choice to do some kind of an assessment for $5,000 per unit or raise the HOA fees. So apparently the board decided to raise the fees. Once again they are not telling me this. I am putting this together. When I ask they just say that was already paid. The next month they say we still owe.

So I am sorry if I do not have the information. I am asking and they tell me different stories. When they bring up pool heaters and video cameras I suggest we wait until our bills are paid and they say we are all paid up and doing financially fine. When they bring up delinquent units and I offer the opinion to let then have a chance at a lower payment to catch them up to date they say we are so in the hole and owe so much money that we will go bankrupt if we do that.

What am I supposed to do. When I ask if we should turn off the pool heater to save money they laugh at me. Bashing me and saying I do not want to get involved serves me no purpose. I go to the meetings. How is that not getting involved? There are only three spaces on the board. The one member who just went on the board this year asked me to join and I said yes but apparently we only have three spaces. I avoid such things because the people I have met on boards walk around the property telling other homeowners what they are doing is wrong. I am sorry if I do not think I or any one should tell someone what color window coverings they should have. That is an invasion of expression and freedom. I am a conservative and believe people have rights.Telling people who spend hundreds of thousands on their home should be allowed to pick their own color of window covering. Maybe you are socialists who think that people should not have freedom.

The reason I am asking you guys for some advice is I assume you might help. Why else would you be on here unless you have questions or you can help. What can I say to get the information I need? What can I do to help ease the burden of $270/month people are paying on property that is decreasing in value? Why is it such a bad thing to want to help the hard working people save a little money each month? Are you guys so rich that you do not care about others?

So I am sorry that I do not have all the information. I have been asking the board and the management company for one year and received nothing. I tried being nice and sweet - got nothing. I tried being an jerk - got nothing. Go to the meetings - got nothing. I am asking you guy who are supposedly the experts what to do but instead you bash and say it is my fault for not getting involved even though I go to all the meetings, ask for the financials, make suggestions, and then after 13 months of frustration someone directs me to this venue to ask for help and all you ladies done to me is bash.

EvaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 190

Posted:

Ron,

we both know asking and getting are two different things. Ha. LOL. I wish I could help, but I cannot. I do not know your community and I will not speculate. Hope you understand.

But I do sympathize with your concerns. Perhaps, the management company may suggest some ways when the Association can save money. BTW, why do you have a management company to begin with? Did you not say that you have no grounds to maintain, just the ‘precious’ pool?

I am surprised that your pool is not covered for instance. If the pool is heated 24 hours for several consecutive months then it is a huge waste. We use el-cheapo plastic bubble cover but it lasts only two years.
Your Power Company may have a number extensive guidelines on saving money on pool electricity, i.e. heating, pump, etc. Our Power Company does. But again, it all depends on the size of the pool, pump, the filters you are using etc.

A written proposal may go a long way, if you think your community may go along with it. But any $ savings analyses do take a lot of time and effort to be accurate and convincing. We have the same problem. Our sprinkle system is old, the underground pipes are cracking and we pay a ton of money for water. Forget the money, I just hate to see anybody wasting water. But do you think anyone ever took the time to get quotes and do financial analyses to see if new sprinkle system would be more cost effective in years to come? No. We just keep patching the old system up. We have no resources to do all this work and have a huge amount of grounds to take care of. So, we all pay for our negligence at the end.

I have no clue what the security system cost, so I cannot comment on that. But I know the association operating expenses quite well and can tell you that there are some expenses you just have to live with. In our case it is insurance. We pay a lot, because of hurricanes. But there are many expenses one can control. Your monthly fees seem a little high but again, I do not know what your Association is responsible for and where the money is going. In closing, if you shut the pool down, your property values may go down if this is the only recreatioanl area you have. You have 10 empty homes, right? So,you may also want to think how to make your development more attractive. It is a fine balancing act. And this is why it is soooo difficult to have any useful opinion without seeing your property.

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Thank you.

Well I can not say what community we are because that is not fair to the other people here but I get your message.

Management company - It might be a California thing but I think we have to have a management company. There are tons of regulations and changes always happening here. People tell me that to keep up with the changes is a full time job. I don't think I have ever known anyone in California who owns and didn't have an HOA and management company. California, it might look good but it is a pain in the daisy.

Pool - Yes it is not covered. Now I know that when you have a heated pool you are to cover it but they do not want to. I have suggested it. You have given me a fantastic suggestion. I will contact PG&E about other possible power saving for heating. Personally I would suggest a solar panel system. Just for the pool heat might be good. A big first investment but a good way to save electricity. But still might be too much of an expense for us.

I like the sprinkler story. That can go through a lot of water. That is a tough situation. Fixing it is best but if there is no budget for it what can you do?

I will continue to try and get financial information and then making a proposal could be very helpful.

Security Cameras - Well it gets expensive but I think the people on the board are not into security. We have had some questionable things happen with ex boyfriends coming on the property and breaking into the former girl friends apartment. Happened recently... twice. But the two members on the board just seem to say "well that is her problem." Then the guy that came to my door they say "well, call the police" when I ask them for advice. But when the pool comes up in conversation they say they want cameras so they can catch the teenagers from the section 8 housing next door sneaking in. I am not sure what to think about that.

Insurance - A biggie for us too. Can not go with out it but that is probably everywhere.

So yes I am looking for what is reasonable to make cuts and I think you cleared that up for me. Personally I like heated pools but I also know more and more residents are having a hard time covering the costs. Another foreclosure wouldn't help.

I am not good at negotiating. I wish I was better. I am spuratic and jump from topic to topic. I don't mean to. Thank you, this last round was very helpful and I think I can do better for my community thanks to this forum.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

. . . And again. . . we get the run-around.

We are even less likely to be able to help you in any constructive way since we have no more knowledge of your particulars than you do.

Of course you can ask the questions.

But then again, it seems we are getting weird timelines from you, anyway.

You are conflating "The Board" as a singular entity that existed in time in its same incarnation, and then you tell us that this particular board is only 3 months old...but you are blaming them for things (lack of communication) that occurred several years ago.

One board member may (or may not?) be a carry over.

If you had approached us with questions such as:

I cannot get financial information from my board. How can I get it?

Then several on here could give you constructive information on how to go about that.

Instead you want to bash them, ask us to be your BFF regarding scenarios about which we can have no earthly way of knowing anything about, and then claim that it's all them and not you.

And then you don't like the answer we give you.

If you like, we can start over with your real questions. Would that be helpful?

By the way, Eva, there is no way we can say that his HOA should or should not be heating the pool, or even how they should be heating it.

We don't know his climate, we don't know the details of the pool heating system or how they contracted it out or how the thing even works, much less the size of the pool, the load (usage), among many other things.

For all we know the pool heating gambit may be one of the best darn things that's been done by the board in years.

We just don't have enough information.

But we can tell him how to request the financials.

That we can do.

I will defer to all the relative experts on here who are familiar with California's HOA laws.

Just keep in mind, we already told you the answer to your very first question:

What can I do? I am not political enough to influence people. I am not a smooth talker either. I tried being nice, I tried being mean, nothing works. What can I do to stop the boards reckless spending?

What can you do to stop the boards (sic) reckless spending?

Again, work the neighbors OR run for the board.

Being nice and being mean already didn't work.

Opps. I did it again, didn't I? Sorry. I keep forgetting that you don't want to get that involved. . .

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Mary and Eva

Your replies have been very helpful. Now I think I can ask the questions I need to ask at the board meetings. It is very likely I am asking the wrong questions so having a better idea of how to approach the board and asking the right questions might help. Thanks to you I think I can do that now. It will very likely clear up the confusion. This is pretty new for me so your knowledge and willingness to share it with me is very appreciated. Your patients with me is appreciated as well.

Everyone else

You were helpful too but I think this all became emotional or angry. Was not my intention so I apologize. I assume you are all outstanding members of your community and a true asset to your respective associations. So instead of going back and forth let me just say thank you to everyone. We might not all agree with each other but that is to be expected. My I suggest in the future when someone is asking for help and admits they are new and do not know what to do or how to do it instead of being defensive and then attacking them maybe take a step back and think that perhaps this person just does not know. Also it is difficult for some to communicate in this medium. I am getting better at it but probably not as good at it as some of you. So if something does not make sense maybe asking follow up questions would be better. You kind of did but this got out of hand fairly quick. I would love to provide you with more details but I do not have them. For so much to be so secretive in a condo association makes me a little nervous. But maybe it is supposed to be that way. We all need to remember that we are all people with feelings. Thank you for your help. I think we can get on to the next subject and let this one go. Thanks to everyone's input I have a better idea of how to do better.

EvaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 190

Posted:

Ron,

do not worry you will do just fine. What you are trying to accomplish is a hard nut to crack. Do come back if any more question. I do wish you the best.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Ron,

I am going to close with a basic game plan, one that I used here and that I feel that would work for you.

Obtain a copy of your documents (CC&R's, master deed), whatever they are called in California and read them.

Next, California must have their own documents (rules) that over-ride yours.........get a copy and read them.

In your condo's docs it will say all the items of the association that are available to be viewed, copied(most likely at a cost to you) at the management office. At each annual owners meeting "I would assume" that your documents state that the board(old, new, whatever) has to supply owners with a breakdown of the budget. A line by line document that says how much money comes(or should be) coming in and what each expense going out will be. Since you have a board of 3 then one per annual meeting should be getting re-elected or a new person elected(if you have a warm body to put in).

Since "you" found the new management company then you should know more than anyone what they are provding(or should be providing)to both your board and the assocation members for their monthly fee. Are they paying bills, how often will the manager be onsite(once a week, once a month), do they have their own maintenance company, what do they charge for extra services, what are they, etc., etc., etc.? You stated you hired them at a savings of over $1,000 per month, what are you getting? What did you get before?

Once you know what the state and you documents say as far as what the board legally has to be telling owners, is in fact your board doing this? You have a relatively new board that is quite likely inheriting a mess and now needs to clean it up. We don't know if the three people on the board are even capable of doing this! Maybe they are. But as Michele said they need ramp up time.

The major jist here with your condo is............ you have owners supposedly not paying, so your assocation has to do what it legally can to get those funds; you need to know if this is being done and by who, does the assocation have an attorney and are they using him?

When you go to board meetings your board should be discussing at said meeting what they should be "openly" discussing and "openly" making motions on(voting on) what they are doing. Motion made to buy a new heater for the pool, those that voted yes, those that voted no, should be listed in the minutes of the meeting. And so on. What do your documents state about owners either receiving minutes or the minutes being available to them from the management company at a fee?

When the board at the meeting discusses specifics of those units in arrears that would most likely, in your state, fall under executive session wherein only the board members are present in the room to here it.

You need to know how much is supposed to come in, how much is coming in, what the budget is, what the reserve account has in it, is the board borrowing from reserves on a monthly basis to cover the budget?

Start with what your documents say you have the legal right to know and ask for it, if your board is running around in circles and they can't, or the manager can't, give you any information that you have a right to then it's time to get your neighbors involved and find some people that know what they are doing that can run your association.

Your board needs to be focusing on ways to keep the most important items maintained and the association afloat with the limited funds that they have and will be getting from the owners.

Your board needs to communicate to the owners the physical status of the buildings, landscaping, security issues, pool problems, what the new management company is achieving, etc.

If after you read all you documents you ask questions that they should know and legally give you and they don't have a clue? It's time then for you and your neighbors to take action and put owners in charge(if you can find any) that will have the wherewithal to lead your association.

These are difficult times and every board needs to be very savy at cutting costs, keeping fees high enough to support the expenses, and to keep funding the reserve budget for major items. Depending on how old your condo is you should have x amount in reserves going towards, siding, roofing, paving, etc. Is there money there or have past(and current?) boards been taking from that to make up for income shortfalls?

Time for the legwork and if in the end, the majority of your neighbors feel that the board is spending on frivolous items and wasting funds, then remove them, but you need people to fill their spots.

Sorry for the lenght but you have many issues and there is a lot of ground to cover.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

I didn't proof read previous post as it is 2:30 in the morning here.......sorry.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RonH5 on 06/08/2009 10:22 PM
Everyone else

You were helpful too but I think this all became emotional or angry. Was not my intention so I apologize. I assume you are all outstanding members of your community and a true asset to your respective associations. So instead of going back and forth let me just say thank you to everyone. We might not all agree with each other but that is to be expected. My I suggest in the future when someone is asking for help and admits they are new and do not know what to do or how to do it instead of being defensive and then attacking them maybe take a step back and think that perhaps this person just does not know. Also it is difficult for some to communicate in this medium. I am getting better at it but probably not as good at it as some of you. So if something does not make sense maybe asking follow up questions would be better. You kind of did but this got out of hand fairly quick. I would love to provide you with more details but I do not have them. For so much to be so secretive in a condo association makes me a little nervous. But maybe it is supposed to be that way. We all need to remember that we are all people with feelings. Thank you for your help. I think we can get on to the next subject and let this one go. Thanks to everyone's input I have a better idea of how to do better.

I think you need to go back and re-read your own comments, beginning with the very first post.

It might be helpful and improve your chances of not getting blowback when you go "newbie" into forums in the future.

It's possible you thought this was a forum where fellow wronged HOA residents can go and bash HOA leadership.

It happens. I'd like to bash my own HOA's leadership sometimes, and I'm part of it.

But if you re-read your own comments, (and I really do recommend it) you might see where some of the push to the shove came from.

Just sayin'.

RonH5 (California)
Posts: 20

Posted:

Dana no worries on proof reading. This is fantastic. I am going to print it an do everything you said. Super Duper thank you so much.

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