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TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
I have a unit in our townhome association that is unoccupied, and has been unoccupied for at least 18 months while the owner has it up for sale.

Last week (Friday), I got a call from the listing agent on that unit that there was water damage inside *probably* from the water heater leaking. The owner has initiated a claim with his insurance company, and he's requested that I get an adjuster to the unit to see if any damage would be covered by our policy.

So...fast forward to today... My *assumption* (yes, I know, always dangerous) was that our HOA insurance covers the structure, but not possessions or furnishings in the unit. My personal insurance policy covers both my possessions and the "mercantile" for my unit.

His insurance agent called me today to say that the owner thought that our policy included things like carpet/pad/paint/trim/etc. This is NOT what I thought it included.

Good thing I have both a copy of my policy AND a copy of our CCR (Declaration).

Description of Premises on our insurance policy: Condominium Building - Residential without mercantile.

From Insurance Policy - Section 1 - Property Coverage: We will pay for direct physical loss of or damage to Covered Property at the premises described in the Declarations caused by or resulting from any Covered Cause of Loss. Blah, blah, blah...INCLUDING Completed additions, fixtures, including outdoor fixtures.

Ok, so that's brief info from my policy, which I have sitting on my desk. I'm meeting with our insurance guy today, so I'll get the questions answered completely.

What I'm interested in is our documents. The owner thought we covered the paint/carpet/etc. In our CCR, we have a section on Insurance... and here it is...

Section 12. Insurance. Casualty Insurance on Insurable Common Area The Association shall keep all insurable improvements and fixtures of the Common Area insured against loss or damage by fire for the full insurance replacement cost thereof, and may obtain insurance against such other hazards and casualties as the Association may deem desirable. The Association may also insure any other property whether real or personal, owned by the Association, against loss or damage by fire and other hazards as the Association may deem desirable, with the Association as the owner and beneficiary of such insurance. The insurance coverage with respect to the Common Area shall be written in the name of, and the proceeds thereof shall be payable to, the Association. Insurance proceeds shall be used by the Association for the repair or replacement of the property for which the insurance was carried. Premiums for all insurance carried by the Association are common expenses included in the annual assessments made by the Association.

In addition to casualty insurance on the Common Area, the Association, through the Board of Directors, may elect to obtain and continue to effect, on behalf of all Owners, adequate blanket casualty and fire insurance in such form as the Board of Directors deems appropriate in an amount equal to the full replacement value, without deduction for depreciation or coinsurance, of all of the Units, including the structural portions and fixtures thereof, owned by such Owners. Insurance premiums from any such blanket insurance coverage, and any other insurance premiums paid by the Association shall be a common expense of the Association to be included in the regular annual assessments of the Owners, as levied by the Association. The insurance coverage with respect to the Units shall be written in the name of, and the proceeds thereof shall be payable to, the Association as Trustee for the Owners.

Section 13. Replacement or Repair of Property In the event of damage to or destruction of any part of the Common Area improvements, the Association shall repair or replace the same from the insurance proceeds available. If such insurance proceeds are insufficient to cover the costs of repair or replacement of the property damaged or destroyed, the Association may make a Reconstruction Assessment against all Owners to cover the additional cost of repair or replacement not covered by the insurance proceeds, in addition to any other annual or special assessments made against such Owner.

In the event that the Association is maintaining blanket casualty and fire insurance on the Units on the lots in the Properties, the Association shall repair or replace the same from the Insurance proceeds available.

So....what do you think? Did I misinterpret the HOA insurance obligation? I almost hope so, then I can drop a small part of my own personal unit insurance!

Any thoughts...greatly appreciated!
EvaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 190
Posted:
I have not read anything in the covenants that would obligate your HOA to cover the inside of the townhouse unit. Nor does the insurance statement imply it does. Actually it would be very unusual if it did, in my opinion.
It appears that your association is responsible for maintaining/insuring the exterior of the units which may include light fixtures as well. Not sure about the rest of it, i.e. doors, frames, glass windows, etc.. but that is not relevant here.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
It's also not defined in our CCR where the HOA obligation begins or ends (studs in or paint in...).

I appreciate the comment. I thought I was pretty close to accurate here...

EvaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 190
Posted:
Last week (Friday), I got a call from the listing agent on that unit that there was water damage inside *probably* from the water heater leaking.
__

You ought to find out what *exactly* happened and perhaps inspect the unit for damage asap and take photos. If the unit was damaged by the owner's water heater - which is maintained by the owner - then it is not the association responsibility.
But if the roof leaked and damaged his unit - and the association is responsible for the maintenance of the roof- then the association may be responsible. If not sure, you may want to ask your insurance company.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Thanks, Eva, that is just what I'm planning on doing. I was hoping no one would focus on the fact that it's water damage... Since no one has lived in the unit for so long, even the owner/agent don't know exactly what happened yet. They're still investigating and contracting with a flood/water restoration company.

I'm pretty sure our association is off the hook because our policy seems to exclude this type of damage...

Limitations..."We will not pay for loss of or damage to:
(2) Hot water boilers or other water heating equipment caused by or resulting from any condition or event inside such boilers or equipment, other than an explosion.

I'm pretty sure his hot water heater didn't explode...

Also, my hot water heater died a year and a half ago, and it caused a small amount of flooding. I just took care of it through my own insurance... Of course, mine wasn't leaking for days at a time...

Thanks, though! I had to call his insurance agent back, and I wanted to be able to have a reasonable conversation before I meet with our agent later today.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
So they leave the place vacant and unoccupied, and don't cut the water off.. Great. Brainiacs! We had one of these scenarios take place in my Condo building and one unit next to mine was vacant and the toilet valve stuck, flooded out the unoccupied unit as well as my unit. Their insurance paid for all my damages. Wouldn't the "reasonable and prudent person" cut the water off? if the property was vacant for so long?
EvaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 190
Posted:
We had a case when a pipe did burst undeground as well.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
May not matter what the insurance policy covers if he hasn't had someone checking the unit periodically. My insurance says once a week minimum or forget getting a claim honoured.
EvaM1 (Florida)
Posts: 190
Posted:
DJ1 .. excellent point.. can you please elaborate? Is it your insurance or the Association insurance? We have so many absentee owners and I hate for the Association to be responsible for owners' negligence.
Most absentee owners do not have their units checked at all. On the other hand amending the covenants to impose more responsibilities on the owners may be impossible.. they will not approve it.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
I just got back from a meeting with my HOA insurance agent. He said that they "might" pay part of the claim, because the damage would actually be something that's covered by our policy BUT... and this is a BIG but... My agent said that if they do have to pay out, they might go after the owner's insurance for reimbursement because the damage was due to his negligence.

I'll keep you posted, but I think I'm on the right track for insurance. Now, workers comp...that's another issue!!! Oh, my barrel of worms just keep getting more confused!
AnnJ2 (Colorado)
Posts: 120
Posted:
Tracie,

If you have what is called an "all-in" policy then it is likely that the association policy will payout for the "resultant damage" to the unit but not for any work to the hot water heater or to personal property. If there is the potential for building damage that could at some point in time if not taken care of correctly cause further damage that the association will ahve to correct, let your policy respond so that you have some control over the repairs. It is also probable that your policy will then go after the owners policy to reimburse them or "subrogate". It is also the best method to back bill your owner with the amount of the deductible on your policy with the argument that the hot water heater is not and could not ever be an association resposnbility. Do this notice to the owner immediately and if they dont' pay add it to the account so it gets paid when the property sells. Once you tell the owner that they will have to personally cover the dedutible, if they do not have a rider on their personal insurance "HO6" policy to cover that, then they will most likely not want to file the claim under the association insurance. The owner's insurance agent is looking for any way to not pay the claim on the policy period and is hoping that the association does not know enough to realize this. the owner's agent needs to be educated as well. You also need to be sure that your agent is aware that the association (read the board) reserves the right to accept or reject any claim and the state laws now support that action.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I don't know if it's still available, but shortly after I discovered this website, we had a fire in one of the townhomes in our communities and faced the same problem. Basically, we learned that the Association's insurance covers the building structure, not things from the drywall in. We also cover plumbing and electrical lines up to the point they enter the home. If the damage originated within one unit and spread to adjoining units, the owner of the first unit has to to pay the Association's deductible. I put the question to the folks on this website and got some interesting responses - try searching the archives to see if it's still there.

We put an article in our newsletter last year with all of this information, so I hope everyone adjusted their insurance accordingly. I also reviewed it (twice) with my insurance agent and learned the deductible would be covered under my liability coverage. Of course, some people tried to say they'd never heard such a thing - until I found an old letter in our association's records that had been sent to the homeowners saying the exact same thing.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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