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MarshaF (Oregon)
Posts: 36
Posted:
We are a very small HOA in a gated community of single family homes in Oregon. One of the owners decided to rent his home as a nightly rental to make money. We found out we could not stop him. We have asked him not to give out the gate code but instead use the electronic gate remotes, but he refuses to do this. He says he hands out the CC&R's to all renters, but he is not overseeing whether they are abiding by the rules. His home uses more water than anyone due to the number of people renting it at one time, yet we can't charge extra for water (his lawyer said that would be discrimination). Now his renters have caused damage to the gate and because no one visually witnessed this, we cannot do anything about it. We don't have the funds to hire lawyers, video equipment, etc. Is there anything that can be done about this ? It is tearing our HOA apart. No one ever expected that our gated community would be "open" to the public. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Check with your civic authorities to see what is required for motels. If this person is doing nightly rentals I am certain they are not complying with the regulations. Report this owner. Don't your covenats state something to the effect that the properties are for residential purposes and not to have businesses conducted in the hoa? For starters a business must be licensed..look into it.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Marsha,

The "rental" is NOT ruining your HOA. The owner IS ruining your HOA. Do you have fining allowed in your documents? There must be some sort of enforcement in order to go after this jerk owner who is allowing rules to be broken. It is HIM that you must go after unless the tenants are breaking some laws and the the police can become involved. You must have physical proof that one of these tenants broke the gate, not just an assumption that one of them did it.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
"nightly" rentals? With a high number of people at one time?

Yup, sounds like a business (motel? B&B?) and is probably not zoned for it.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Do you have a fine structure for violations in place?

Then use it.

Once the cost of the fines exceeds the income from the rentals the owner will have to make a decision.

Do the individual homes have their own meter for water?
If not how do you know the usage for this one is high?

If the water usage is out of line with the other properties and you can prove it they should be charged the difference.

One last thought and I agree with the suggestion to report his "business".
Is he paying taxes on this income from his business? Perhaps your town or local government has restrictions on this type of property rentals.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Marsha,
You have some awful good advice here, primary is how much do you know about your documents, the state statutes and any applicable city of local laws.

The rest of your owners are not stepping up to the plate. The Board is not stepping up to the plate. If your by-laws read that no disturbance can be created that impacts on the community, there should be penalties. This should be a community involvement issue, and if the community don't like the conditions, change the conditions. As long as you are not disregarding state or federal law you can be very restrictive in your community. I say again, learn your documents, and if you are unwilling to do that hire a professional. I will cost you all and the wayward owner an equal share, maybe he will get to see the light if the association starts assessing him to look for ways to stop his uncooperative actions.

I would assume (always a danger) you have tried the friendly sit down and talk method. I would try it again and record and keep records of the meetings. The object being that if this goes to court, you want to show good faith in trying to solve the problem.
Donna says it is not the renters. she may know something I don't but I would not ignore it could be the renters and the owners. Also the renters have to live under the same covenants as the owners. You can cite the owner and the renter for breaching the rules and covenants.
PeterV1 (Virginia)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Never heard of nightly rentals. We have a restriction against running a business in our POA. This might fit the definition of a business and might be worth asking a lawyer about. I agree that nightly rentals fit the definition of a hotel more then a residence.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Marsha,

What the board needs to do immediately is to adopt a rental policy. In the policy state that rentals must be for 6 mos or 1 year. FYI, below is the rental policy of my HOA.

RENTALRULES
Preamble: The Board of Directors sets high standards for the Association's
appearance in Arrowhead Ranch Phase Ill Community Association
("Association"). The goals for the appearance of the properties are wellmaintained homes and common areas and to implement regulations to
secure a crime free neighborhood for families and their guests. Residents in
the Association take pride in their community. Customarily, investment
properties are less attended to than owner occupied homes. Tenants do not
always share the communities high standards created to improve and protect
property values. In an effort to maintain these standards, the Board of
Directors has implemented the following rules for rental units. Owners and
their Tenants shall also comply with all the Association's rules and other
Community Documents. The Association shall impose monetary penalties
assessed against the Owner's unit for violations of the Rules and the
Community Documents. Compliance with these Rental Rules and Community
Documents is a vital part of the Association's success as a crime free
neighborhood. Each Owner who rents a unit within the Association must
comply with the Rental Rules and assist in our goal of a crime free
neighborhood. The Association seeks everyone's cooperation in making the
community a desirable place to live.
1. The Owner shall notify the Board of Directors ("Board") in writing within five (5)days of the effective date of executing or renewing a lease.
2. The Owner shall furnish the Board with a copy of the signed lease and any
renewals or revisions within fifteen (15) days of signing the lease, renewal or revision.
3. Written leases are required.
4. All leases must restrict occupancy to no more than three unrelated persons or a single family.
5. The Owner shall furnish the Board with a Rental Control Agreement Form
certifying that the Owner has furnished the tenant with copies of the Community
Documents; that the tenant has agreed to be bound by the Community
Documents; and that the Owner accepts responsibility for the tenants' violations of the Community Documents. A copy of the Residential Control Agreement Form is included in the Rental Packet available through the Associations Management Company. The Community Documents consist of the CC&Rs,
Rules and Architectural Guidelines. The Owner may contact the Associations
Management Company for a complete Rental Packet containing these
documents.
6. Owners are required to provide the Board with a Crime Free Lease Addendum,
signed by the Owner and the tenant. A copy of the Crime Free Addendum is
included in the Rental Packet available through the Associations Management
Company.
7. In Compliance with City of Glendale, Section 21, an Owner must have a City of Glendale sales tax license for Residential Rental Properties.
8. In Compliance with the State of Arizona, Notification of Arizona Residential
Rental Property - pursuant to A.R.S. 33-1901 and 33-1902, an owner of a
residential rental property shall maintain with the Assessor in the County where the property is located the following
a.If the property is owned by a corporation, limited liability company,
partnership, limited partnership, trust or real estate investment trust you
must advise the Assessor of the name, address and telephone number
of the business entity and the statutory agent, if applicable.
b. If you are an out-of-state owner of a residential property, you shall
designate and record with the County Assessor a statutory agent who
lives in this state and who will accept legal service on behalf of the
owner. Per the State of Arizona, a person who fails to comply with
any provision of this shall be assessed a civil penaltv of one
thousand dollars, plus an additional one hundred dollars for each
month after the date of the original violation until compliance
occurs.
c. The State Application for "Notification of Arizona Residential Rental
Property" is included in the Rental Packet available through the
Associations Management Company or via www.maricopa.gov
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
You might consider switching off the key code system towards a keyless entry using cards or remote controls that don't require a static password/passcode. New systems can allow you to literally turn "on" and "off" access keys and fobs for people with no more business having access to your neighborhood. It's done by computer and as little as dial-up connections and a phone line. Imagine the guy having to purchase a replacement keycard for every nightly renter.

Of course, this is extremely passive in responding to a property owner who has no regard for your security and right of enjoyment of your property and probably should be confronted in some way.

It's not always easy to pass new policies but if the whole neighborhood is fed up, you can do what you like!
AnnJ2 (Colorado)
Posts: 120
Posted:
In addition to switching to a different entry system, why not simply turn off the keyless entry so it is non-functional, pass a resolution that no one owner may have more than say one remote per vehicle owned. This would need the cooperation of the residents of course but woudl maybe limit this person's ability to provide access to multiple people on a nightly basis.

and can you clarify what you mean by a nightly rental? Meaning one night at a time?
DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarshaF on 06/01/2009 5:13 PM
We are a very small HOA in a gated community of single family homes in Oregon. One of the owners decided to rent his home as a nightly rental to make money. We found out we could not stop him. We have asked him not to give out the gate code but instead use the electronic gate remotes, but he refuses to do this. He says he hands out the CC&R's to all renters, but he is not overseeing whether they are abiding by the rules. His home uses more water than anyone due to the number of people renting it at one time, yet we can't charge extra for water (his lawyer said that would be discrimination). Now his renters have caused damage to the gate and because no one visually witnessed this, we cannot do anything about it. We don't have the funds to hire lawyers, video equipment, etc. Is there anything that can be done about this ? It is tearing our HOA apart. No one ever expected that our gated community would be "open" to the public. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you.

Marsha,

You've gotten some great advice. Do you really mean to say that it is entirely different people every night? Old/young? Do you think it's turned into a brothel or drug house? If so, call the cops. Are they disturbing neighbors with boisterous behavior? Fine the owner. (I also like the idea of updating your gate access that was mentioned.)

What does the association attorney say? Do you have a management company and if so what do they say? I notice you state that "his" attorney is already involved; is the association's? Your statement, "we don't have funds to hire lwayers..." No association can afford not to have one!

How do you even know how much water they are using and why do you care? Or are you trying to come up with "any" type of reason, appropriate or not, to rid yourself of these near'dowells?
Are you on the board of directors?

How many of your homes are owner occupied?

Concerninng the gate; you are SOL unless you can prove they did it. Did you file a police report when the damage was found? Just what was the damage?
MarshaF (Oregon)
Posts: 36
Posted:
There are a lot of questions and I thank everyone for their response, so I will try to give a little more info. Our CC&R's were not restrictive enough, (very poorly written by the delarant's lawyer),so the wording is vague and Oregon has a case wherein the owners (in a gated community) won and were able to rent out their home as nightly lodging (since technically it is being used as a residence ie:people are residing there), so the state (and lawyers) now site that case. The county zoned us as residential, not business, but renting out your home is not considered a business here. The county won't stand up for us and take a stand on their own rules and zoning (they make the rules but don't enforce them!)because the state ruling on rentals will supercede the county. The owner now has remotes to hand out instead of the gate code, so this should stop any more gate damage. It is an expensive upscale home and he gets $500 per nite rental for it - so he has plenty of money and a very good lawyer to fight anything we might try to do. It's not being used as a drug house or brothel - just a destination resort ! We can clarify our CC&R's but not without the declarants help - because he has a majority of the votes since he still owns the most lots (poor economy). Even if we changed the CC&R's, to not allow short term rentals, the rental house would be grandfathered in. Also, we did hire a lawyer who advised us there is nothing we can do without spending alot of money (that we don't have). Our hands are tied ! I will look into him paying his transient/motel taxes and we do have a fine schedule in place but you have to prove the renters did damage! It is very frustrating to have an HOA and not be able to do anything to secure our properties and run our community as the majority of us wishes it to be run. Therefore tensions are very high. I suggested we dissolve the HOA since it is not affective at all. I think HOA's can work, but only if they have plenty of money to hire legal counsel for every issue or as long as everyone in the community agrees to abide by the same set of rules.....good luck on either one of those. Thank you all for your input.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Marsha,

Since you've shed more light on your HOA I will say that the owners don't have much authority as long as the declarant is in control. Just bide your time til he's out of the picture. If he doesn't see anything wrong with this owner renting him home for 1 day at a time, then there's not much, if anything, the members can do about it. As far as dissolving the assn, that's another matter that will just have to wait. Bottom line; for your own sanity, don't let things bother you that you have no control over.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Oh good grief.

You had me (my sympathies) until you got to the nuclear option: dissolve the HOA.

My teenage daughter used to cut her nose off to spite her face on numerous occasions, too, when she didn't get her way.

It seems that since it's hopeless, as in, nobody wants to do the really hard work to fix it or put forth the $$ to have someone else fix it, then my advice to the members of your community is: adjust your attitude and expectations. Because "wishing" won't work here.

But I do know that were it me, I would be working very hard to ensure that the governing documents were tightly enforced, against all owners, including the B&B guy, and start putting some energy into finding a good lawyer in the area who isn't chicken of the B&B guy's lawyer or the developer's lawyer.

MarshaF (Oregon)
Posts: 36
Posted:
Since we are so small, only 25 lots and our dues are only $200.00 annually - the money is a huge issue. I guess we could just do a special assessment for thousands to each owner to pay all those lawyers bills ? I'd like to do a special assessment just to the renter - but I'm sure he'd sue us for descrimination.

My point is, not every HOA has the money to run to the lawyers office every time an issue arises. Out of our 25 lots, 24 of us believed we read the CC&R's to mean we could not rent out our house...only 1 person saw it differently.

The majority should rule in this country but when it comes to HOA's the majority doesn't rule...the lawyers, laws, and the ones with the deep pockets rule! It's very hard to fight with no money - but we haven't given up yet. We will make headways, slowly but surely.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michele,

Your suggestions are very sound, IF it's a member board. But this assn is still under the control of the declarant. Even if Marsha has a group of h/o's with the same goals as she, it will be a tough road to hoe; almost an impossibility if she tries to do it alone. Finding a good attorney means Eva and her group, or Marsha alone, will be footing the bill. That, in itself, may be an impossibility.
DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarshaF on 06/02/2009 9:38 AM

The majority should rule in this country but when it comes to HOA's the majority doesn't rule...the lawyers, laws, and the ones with the deep pockets rule! It's very hard to fight with no money - but we haven't given up yet. We will make headways, slowly but surely.


I'm sorry but last I knew Oregon was part of the United States; wherein majority does rule. Majority rules in HOA's also. Problem is that right now the developer is the majority and it looks like a) you don't like his rules and b) you didn't understand the rules when you moved in thereby willing to play by them. I don't mean to pick on you or be mean but those are the facts Marsha; welcome to the "learning curve".

Mary, please educate me as to how things will change when the owners take over from the developer. It seems that even then it will cost money to improve the documents. Won't this particular owner still be grandfathered?

Michele, you really need to learn to open up and not hold back with your thoughts and feelings. :-) You crack me up. I love your moxy.

Dana
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
I missed it: where did we determine this HOA was still under declarant control?

secondly, you don't need a lawyer for everything. You do need to read your rules, and the statutes cited by everyone, so you understand them, perhaps better than the other party. Once you have read them twice, and understand them fully, THEN, you can go find a lawyer to do what you need. If you don't understand your own rules better than the enemy, spending money on a lawyer is a waste of money. You should pay a lawyer to do what YOU direct, not pay them to tell YOU what to do.

I believe there are a dozen ways to skin this cat, and many have been suggested: zoning, for one... despite some hear-say, I truly believe that no county or state will state, for the record, that a HOTEL is the same as a RESIDENTIAL HOME, and so, you do have some room to push the zoning boards to do their jobs. You should look into the suggestions about business licenses, taxes, perhaps the county health board (he provides a kitchen? cookware? cutting boards? Food? then perhaps the county should take an inspection look, eh?). How about the IRS? do they know he is running a business? Make a call to them, and perhaps an audit of his taxes will make him regret his undeclared (Potentially) income.

And those are just the LEGAL things you can do...
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Dana,

How will things change when the developer is gone? For one, the attorney will be paid with assn funds. The members will have better voting rights since there will no longer be one person with a majority vote.

Regarding grandfathering this particular member; I believe it would depend upon what the docs say now about rentals. If they are silent, then, IMO the board can adopt a rental policy that everyone would have to abide by. However, if there is a rental policy already in place that does not prevent daily rentals then this guy would have to be grandfathered.
MarshaF (Oregon)
Posts: 36
Posted:
To clarify a couple of points made:
The declarant has turned over possession to the HOA since he had sold 51% of the lots in the first phase but he has not sold the lots in the second phase, he still has voting rights but doesn't pay assessments on those lots (a little dittie his lawyer put in the docs).

Here is our exact wording of our CC&R's as far as rentals:
"No lot shall be used except for residential purposes. No commercial uses except home occupations approved by the county planning department are allowed."

Pretty vague huh ? Residential purposes ? Yes, people are residing there even when renting.

Reading and understanding this legalese - pure interpretation. Two lawyers can read the same thing and interpret it differently. Like I said, all of us read the above to mean we couldn't rent out our homes, except for 1 person!

And no, when I read the CC&R's, I thought I understood them, but obviously didn't. Guess I should have hired a lawyer to interpret it for me !
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 06/02/2009 9:46 AM
Finding a good attorney means Eva and her group, or Marsha alone, will be footing the bill. That, in itself, may be an impossibility.

I disagree.

Attorneys CAN get expensive, but to simply throw in the towel before this early, to me, is not the way to go.

If it's "worth" it to them to try to dissolve the HOA, then it's "worth" it to them to try to fix it first.

And yes, do a special assessment, the renter guy will have to pay it, too, so he will be paying you more to sue him.

Actually, I doubt it will even get to that part. I suggest reading Brian's very well-worded comments and advice.

One doesn't have to pay thousands of dollars to an attorney just to sit down and talk to one or two or three. . . .
DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 06/02/2009 10:43 AM
Dana,

Regarding grandfathering this particular member; I believe it would depend upon what the docs say now about rentals. If they are silent, then, IMO the board can adopt a rental policy that everyone would have to abide by. However, if there is a rental policy already in place that does not prevent daily rentals then this guy would have to be grandfathered.

Mary, I have certain issues at my condo that took place from previous boards, I'll have to investigate a few things based on your answer. I had come to the conclusion that these items would just have to be grandfathered.

Thanks.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michele,

Marsha stated they did hire an attorney and he told them it would cost a lot of money which they don't have.
AnnJ2 (Colorado)
Posts: 120
Posted:
One thing everyone has misseed. Just because there was a court ruling on a matter does not mean there can not be a different ruling in another case or that the original ruling can't be overturned. the parading out of past court rulings in favor of a particular activity is a scare tactic the lawyers and others use to good effect. At the risk of offending someone keep in mind at one time it was legal to own another person as personal property. Unless this case that has been touted as the authority has been through the US Supreme Court I doubt it is full proof against challenge. If one attorney says it is too expensive then he really does not want the case, find another one. Attorneys like to see their name in the paper defending the little guy and winning against the city/county/developer/ etc. and it wins them more clients.

Just random thoughts
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 06/02/2009 8:57 PM
Michele,

Marsha stated they did hire an attorney and he told them it would cost a lot of money which they don't have.

I understand she claimed to have "hired" an attorney: " Also, we did hire a lawyer who advised us there is nothing we can do without spending alot of money (that we don't have). "

But I simply don't believe her. Not that that means anything (my believing her or not).

She may have talked to one who told her that unless he got paid he couldn't help.

People don't generally "hire" an attorney to have him tell them he can't do the work for them. If she had hired an attorney, he would have at the very least said something along the lines of "this is what the problem is, this is where we have a standing, and this is how much it will cost to rectify."

So she would have still had some idea of whether it could be done, not that "nothing" could be done without spending a lot of money.

And I would have asked for the definition of "a lot of money" and then looked into how we (the board and/or the residents personally) could raise the money to get it done. Not that it "can't" be done.

Besides, I still think there really hasn't been a great deal of sweat equity devoted to this "problem."

I'm sure there are attorneys out there that could help them, or at least get them started or show them where they have some standing for a reasonable amount.

It's like my grandsons. They can't find their shoes. It happens all the times. Can't find them. It's hopeless. The shoes are no where to be found.

Where did you look, grandson?

Right there and there (pointing from his chair).

Did you get up off your chair and look in the other room or upstairs?

No, nana, but looked everywhere I could from still sitting in this chair and they just can't be found.

Just sayin' . . . sometimes you have to get up off your chair. And even then, sometimes you have to actually go into another room or up the stairs.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michele,

That's because, just like it's so much easier for your Grandson to say I can't see my shoes from where I'm sitting; it much easier for Marsha to say "let's just dissolve the HOA". This is NOT going to happen as long as the developer holds the majority of votes. So, I agree with you, if they want change it's up to them to come up with a plan that will result in change. I was not previously aware that the HOA has been turned over to the members. So, even though they may not have the majority vote, they do have a certain amount of control of the assn. I would be contacting an attorney to see what can be done even though the developer holds the majority of votes. Most assn docs state that after turnover occurs the developers Class B membership reverts to Class A. I wonder how Marsha's CCRs read. Also is section 2 a part of sectin 1 or will there be a separate HOA for that second section. Perhaps the developer's majority vote for section 2 has no bearing on section 1. These are questions that we do not know the answer to and if Marsha doesn't either then I would recommend she get answers now.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 06/03/2009 7:20 AM
These are questions that we do not know the answer to and if Marsha doesn't either then I would recommend she get answers now.

Here, here.

I have a feeling there's a lot of jaw-boning, but little real research, even into their own documents.

To be fair, I think they have a right to be concerned.

I'm just not sure what she thinks we can offer, besides co-complaining about the guy with the rental property.

What strikes me is that a gated community has so few funds.

If they put some feet on the ground, make a few visits to some association-savvy attorneys, even if they have to pay $150 for the first visit (or something similar), they will ultimately find someone who can help them within their means.

Dissolving the HOA will only further erode their values as everything else the association has to take care of falls by the wayside.

I do truly wish her and her fellow neighbors the best of luck.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Brian,

I love your suggestions. Go to elected officials with their concerns to see what they can do....go to the local news, whatever it takes. Let the city or county officials know you are mad as hell and will not take it anymore. Let them know there is an owner running a business and even better find out if the owner is paying taxes on the revenue by renting out a home as a motel.
EverettC (Maryland)
Posts: 90
Posted:
I haven't done any legal research, but I suggest looking at the definition of "resident" under Oregon laws. A nightly rental does not, in my opinion, makes the person an occupant but not a resident.

Also, regarding grandfathering, if you adopt a rental policy I suggest that you make the effective at a future date, e.g., "with respect to rentals entered into after [30 days from date of adoption],..." That may be a way around grandfathering the exception.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Everett,

If there is no rental policy now and the gov docs do not address daily rentals, there is no grandfathering with the newly adopted policy. Grandfathering only occurs when a rule is changed and results in some h/o's automatically being in violation. These h/o's are grandfathered because when they made whatever change there was no rule against it.
MargeS (Maryland)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Most covenants do not allow for a business. It sounds like this guy is running a business not renting out his unit as a homestead
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Marsha,

Sorry to say but dissolving your hoa will cost big bucks too.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Brian is right. I think some just assumed it was still under declarant control. I would follow his advice and if you have a problem with the zoning department contact your represetative, councilman or whomever wants your vote when they run. It is amazing how helpful they can be.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
MaryA,

This is getting confusing. You say the declarant has the majority of the votes but has sold 51 lots which would mean he has 49 votes...right?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Ellen,

This thread was started over a month ago and there have been no messages for a month until Marge posted hers a few days ago. Frankly I don't see the need to resurrect it since the OP is no longer interested.
MargeS (Maryland)
Posts: 9
Posted:
We created Rules and Regulations, that clarified our covenants. Our covenants are so out dated, vague and typically cookie cutter that they needed updating and more defined explanation. In the Rules it was spelled out that no business can be conducted in the community. Without a doubt we would have denied use of the property for over night use. We also limit the rental lease for 6 months initially. If the renters create a nuisance we do not allow the lease to renewed or the homeowner is fined. I doubt they would be able to get homeowners insurance if the insuring company knew how the home was being used.

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