failure to obey rules is considered trespassing

We're having pool problems again. Someone suggested that failure to obey the rules(which they pass by after they open the gate) will be considered trespassing. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this. We're a Florida townhouse community.
Barbara

I dunno.

I guess it all depends on how the information on the sign is written.

If it invites in only people who follow the rules and says something like, "by passing through this gate you agree to follow the above rules. Failure to follow rules will result in your invitation to enter the property null and void and you must leave the area immediately or be considered a trespasser."

In that case, then, yes.

Barbara, we're asking that question, too. Sort of. We have a couple of people who are blatantly violating the pool rules. One of them brings a carload of people from another neighborhood to swim on the weekends and they all swim in their street clothes; a rule violation. The rules are posted right next to the pool.

One attorney we talked to says we can "tresspass" the owner and the guests from the pool if they break the rules. Yet Florida Condo Statutes do not give us the right to ban them from the pool for non-payment of maintenance fees.

Maybe not so ridiculous. Assuming that the HOA has the authority to revoke a homeowner's privilege to use the pool for not following the posted rules, then once the homeowner has lost that privilege they no longer have the legal right to enter the pool area. If they continue to do so, they could be considered to be trespassing.

However, I don't think they could go from rule violation to trespassing in one step. I would think that the homeowner would need to be notified of the loss, and even given the ability to request a hearing first.

I agree that the BOD would have to start by sending a violation notice with the trespass warning, and there would probably be additional steps involved as well.

As to why call it trespassing, what else could be done? If the Board has revoked their privileges but they enter the pool area anyway, what recourse would the Board have? Revoke them again? Maybe assess a fine if the HOA is allowed to fine, but my guess is that they wouldn't pay without a battle, and in the meantime you still have the problem behavior. By removing their right to use the pool AND invoking trespass, the HOA would then have the ability to get the police involved if necessary and have them physically removed from the area.

BTW: this is actualy very timely for me. We received a complaint from a homeowner about some inappropriate behavior at our pool yesterday. Seems some teenagers started going way beyond what we used to call "heavy petting" while there where families with young children in the area. A member of the pool committee was called and he threw them out, but the homeowners who were at the pool want further steps taken. We'll start with a letter to the parent of the teen involved (identified through our access logs) and then go from there.

Maybe so, Mary, but his "guests" may be trespassing, especially if the rules state that people who disobey the rules must leave the pool area immediately.

You may well be able to ban people from the pool. You may have every legal right to do so. (I would say it would depend on a combination of state laws and your documents.)

As far as police involvement, your mileage will vary considerably. Some departments don't mind pushing people around with flimsy standing. Others are more cautious and often this is a function of the population level.

The thing is that until you have taken the proper steps, then the issue is a civil issue and not a criminal issue. (And to muddy the waters proper steps will vary with the state.)

As a note, the gentleman who was attacked should push for a protection order not a restraining order. A restraining order is again a civil matter and not a police matter. I would guess that you could get a protective order for yourself and a restraining order for the facilities (unless you can convince the judge he will attack others).

Keep in mind that the police will not respond if they believe you are simply trying to "get the resident's attention."

Thanks for your advice I mix the terms up din't I? In any event, I certainly appreciate your comments and this website!

I have read all of the nice comments but still does not answer the very very basic problem of characters who live in the condo area but invite in 20 of their friends from some other area.. How is that to be handled? The sign says that a resident my invite in two guests.... We canot cll the police.. our hands are, in reality, tied.

Alex - you enfoce against the property owner. If your rules say only two guests and the owner regularly brings in more than two guests, then you revoke the pool privileges of that owner. Now he can't bring in any guests.

This assumes of course that you have some sort of access control system that will allow you to disable access for individuals. On the other hand, if his pool privileges have been revoked and he shows up any way, then now he is considered to be trespassing and you should be able to have him (and his guests) removed. If you can't get the cooperation of the police for that, it might be worth attending a city council meeting or two.

Let's face it some homeowners seem to go out of the way to be a pain in the tuchas but before you slap them with a fine to punish them for annoying the BOD there are steps that need to be taken. These are required by statute in at least Florida, Ohio (COA) & California and possibly others. More importantly the BOD needs to treat those H/O's like they would want to be treated if the situations were reversed, as hard as it sometimes is. (After all we're all human or at least most of us are)

There has been talk of fining these miscreants and I have no problem with that but there needs to be a clearly defined rules and fine schedule which need to be in the hands of all of the H/O's before any fines are levied along with a manor to appeal it. You just can't make it up as you go unless you want to find yourself in court or on the news trying to explain that you are not selectively enforcing a covenant or rule. And you need to keep meticulous records to prove you aren't picking on someone or if you are that they're the only one to your knowledge that is in violation.

The point is not to raise money for the HOA but to get the H/O's to comply with what needs to be done in the easiest manor possible. I would suggest every HOA appoint a rules committee with as many H/O's on it as possible and follow the CC&R's and statues for making rules and have them vetted by an attorney. For instance our by-laws allow the BOD to propose rules but they aren't valid without 51% of the H/O's approving them. You also need to ask the attorney if you can lien for unpaid fines (some states don't allow it) or if you need to take the H/O through small claims court.

Examples:
Pool rule violation - Anyone who violates a posted pool rule is subject to the following: 1st offence - written warning. 2nd offense - $50.00 fine 3rd offense - suspension of all pool privileges for the balance of the season. If the violation is deemed serious enough to be a safety hazard the BOD may forgo the written warning and begin fining or suspend privledges.

Architectural violation - Anyone who builds or causes to be built or makes or causes to be made any modifications which requires prior ACC approval without ACC approval is subject to the following - Any structure or modification which complies with ACC guidelines and would have been approved $500.00 fine. Any structure or modification which does not comply with ACC guidelines and would have not been approved $500.00 fine and the homeowner must remove the structure or modification within 30 days or be subject to an additional monthly fine of $500.00 until the violation is cured plus attorney fees if the violation is not cured in 90 days and the Association must take legal action.

Pets - Anyone who walks their pet on common elements in violation of the approved pet rules is subject to the following:

Walking a pet off leash -1st offence - written warning. 2nd offense - $50.00 fine 3rd offense - the BOD will declare the animal a nuisance under Article ____ of the Convents and require that the animal be removed from Happy Acres HOA.

Failure to clean up animal feces -1st offence - written warning. 2nd offense - $50.00 fine 3rd offense - the BOD will declare the animal a nuisance under Article ____ of the Convents and require that the animal be removed from Happy Acres HOA.

Etc. etc. etc.