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copies of tape recordings of meetings

Started by GraceH • 30 replies • 2205 views

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GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Hello again!
I would like to know if anyone has had experience with the tape recording of board meetings.

I have been taping our board meetings for the past 6 months and today was given a letter from the PM stating " It has been requested that I ask you to provide copies of the tapes of the meetings you have recorded."

Does anyone know if this request needs to be complied with?

Thank you all for any help you can provide.
Grace
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Grace,
I don't now Virginia HOA laws but Florida requires copies of any HOA meeting procedings and documents be provided to any member upon a written request. Copies of tapes would be included. You may charge the member for the copies and because this will take some time, charge them well.You also may set up a time that is convenient for you to copy the tapes.

But we erased the tapes AFTER the minutes had been transcribed off of them and the minutes were approved at the next Board meeting. Don't you just hate such a request? What are they trying to find? I think that would be an easier request to fulfill.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Donna,
Thank you so much for your response.
I should have clarified that I am not a board member, but a Home Owner that had started taping the meetings because our PM tends to deny what she has said at previous meetings. Under these circumstances, do I need to furnish these copies?
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Grace,

I'll doubt you're "required" to hand them over. But if you decide to, I'd have the PM do the leg work re: obtaining, copying and paying. ON YOUR TERMS and AT YOUR CONVENIENCE.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Grace,

As John said, you can but you don't have to. It depends on whether you want to be nice to her.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Grace,

I agree with John. You may want to check out state law on this. In AZ anyone has the right to tape record a meeting w/o the approval of the person(s) conducting the meeting. One thing you could do is tell the BOD that you didn't keep copies of tapes of the meetings. Just say you made notes and just recorded over the previous meeting. IMO, they most likely have no legal reason to require that you provide them with these tapes. If they try to become forceful, just ask them to cite the State law which says you are obliged to comply with their request. That should make them back down. Frankly, I wouldn't give them anything!
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
You guys are the BEST!!!!

John, I do not trust that the PM would not destroy the tapes.

Donna, if you only knew half of the crap the PM has put me through - There is no being nice anymore.

Mary, I read the Condominium Act and it does not say anything about providing copies of the recordings.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Mary and Grace,

Exactly my opinion as well. It's her job to keep the minutes and if she has a memory problem, your tapes are yours and she should not even have the alls to ask for them.
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Grace writes:

>>>You guys are the BEST!!!!<<<

Certainly, Donna and Mary are. I'm happy to be included, though.

>>>John, I do not trust that the PM would not destroy the tapes.<<<

Perhaps make a copy for yourself before transfer? Or arrange for a professional service to make the dupes, prepaid by PM? Or as D&M optioned, just say NO.

My best case scenario is keeping a spare and PM not returning the set you loan out. Great ammo for future battles.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
The minutes are the oficial record of the HOA, so these tapes are just the "show" What the PM said or didn't say is not important unless it is the basis of a motion or action.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
John,
Thank you again, I think I will just say NO.
The more I think about it, everyone that attends these meetings, knows that I am the kind of person that would share any information I have, and they also know that the PM is the last person I would want the request to come from. Although there are a couple of board members that would not approach me because I am seeking their removal. : )
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Hey,
I know that this is off subject but I have to share it.

2 friends are talking when 1 says to the other "What happened to your car? It's all full of blood, grass, mud and bushes. The friend says "I just hit a lawyer"

Friend 1 says, "I can understand all of the blood but what about the grass, mud and bushes?" Friend 2 says " I HAD TO CHASE HIM THRU THE PARK"
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Susan,
Thank you for your response.
Although, it should not matter what the PM said, our PM has run the association without any accountability. A group of Home Owners and myself have been persistent in attending meetings and enlightening the board of their responsibilities. Little by little, we are getting there however, the PM still has quite a bit of control.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
A little humor to lighten things up!
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 05/28/2009 11:17 AM

Hey,
I know that this is off subject but I have to share it.

2 friends are talking when 1 says to the other "What happened to your car? It's all full of blood, grass, mud and bushes. The friend says "I just hit a lawyer"

Friend 1 says, "I can understand all of the blood but what about the grass, mud and bushes?" Friend 2 says " I HAD TO CHASE HIM THRU THE PARK"

Hehe. By George, that's pretty humorous.

I agree. I would not turn over the tapes.

And, with all due respect, Susan, I think you are incorrect on this one. It does matter what is said on the tape -- if someone at a later date claims to have not said something.

Anyway, the tapes are your property and you can do with them what you wish, as long as it's within the law.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Michele,

Thank you also, I do believe that it is within the law as the Virginia Condominium Act does not say that copies of the tapes must be provided. However it does state that the board may adopt rules (1) governing the placement and use of equipment necessary for recording a meeting to prevent interference with the proceedings and (2) requiring the member recording the meeting to provide notice that the meeting is being recorded.
So in the future, I am sure that they will try to make it more difficult. But that is okay, with the help from all of you, I am ready for whatever they can throw my way!
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

MICHELLE,

BY GEORGE???? Love your humor
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Donna,

You beat me to the punch. I was thinking the same thing! LOL
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 05/28/2009 12:05 PM

MICHELLE,

BY GEORGE???? Love your humor

Hey, it was your joke,
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Because I do not want to ignore a request that I have been given, as the PM has done to me, the following is my response that I am submitting today. Now keep in mind that when I sent my first request for documents Certified mail, the PM did not even pick it up from the Post Office, my second request was also disregarded, my third request was partially honored after bringing the previous attempts to the board meetings. In addition, because I had angered the PM there was also a $25.00 admin fee per association and a $2.00 a page copy charge that did not previously exist which I have now gotten reduced to $0. for Condo for documents that we are entitled to, and $.25 a page for HOA both without an administrative fee except for duplicate copies.

This letter is in response to the request for me to provide copies of the tapes of the Condominium and HOA meetings I have recorded.

In your letter, you stated that it had been requested that you ask me to provide copies of the tapes of the meetings that I have recorded. Before I will consider such request, I would like to know by whom this request was made and the reason that they have for wanting these copies.

I do believe that I have 6 tapes averaging anywhere from 90 to 180 minutes. I will be happy to provide copies of the tapes with the understanding that there will be an Owner Origination fee of $50.00 per association, a $7.00 per tape fee and a processing fee of $10.00 per fifteen (15) minute interval, half of which is due prior to commencement, leaving the remainder due upon your receipt of tapes.

Please also note that I am not a professional tape processor therefore, I cannot guarantee the clarity or quality of these tapes.

Sincerely,
Grace
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Donna and Michele,

How do you make the smiley face again?
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Gracie:

Type a colon : and a capital D right next to each other with no spaces

I have a couple comments about your letter.

First, I would shorten it to only the request regarding "who wants to know" and a short reply as follows:

I have received your request to produce copies of my own personal recordings of recent meetings.

As these are my own personal recordings, taken for my own personal use, I would need to know who is requesting copies of them and for what purpose.

I will give some thought to your request once I receive that information.

-------------------------------------------

Second, I don't think I would offer up any payment options or requirements until I was sure that I was going to provide any copies. She may take your bluff and then you would have to backtrack, if you weren't initially actually inclined to provide copies of them.

At any rate, I would repeatedly refer to the tapes as your own "personal recordings" so that there is clear understanding that these are your private property, produced by you personally, and are solely for your own private use, as you deem necessary.

RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Michele beat me. I as going to suggest the same thing. Why offer something when you don't have to. Unless a law enforcement person came to get them with a legal document in hand, I would wait to see and determine how cooperative I would want to be. You can always send the second half of the letter later if so inclined, but you can never get it back if you change your mind.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Thank you guys so much!

I thought that I was reserving the right to not provide the copies by stating that I would consider after knowing who and why they wanted them. I could not resist the spiteful charges after paying over $70.00 for a copy of the PMs contract.

I do not think they could send any law enforcement however just incase, wouldn't it be better on my end if I had the charges already in place?
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GraceH on 05/29/2009 10:28 AM
Thank you guys so much!

I thought that I was reserving the right to not provide the copies by stating that I would consider after knowing who and why they wanted them. I could not resist the spiteful charges after paying over $70.00 for a copy of the PMs contract.

I do not think they could send any law enforcement however just incase, wouldn't it be better on my end if I had the charges already in place?

As Michelle said, why set yourself up for a situation that the PM will say ok and you really didn't want to do it. I believe most posters are saying that you don't have to comply in the first place so why make it easy. Remember, the PM would probably just charge back the $70 to the HOA which will end up you having to pay for a portion.

Who knows, there might be a very good reason to turn over 1 or more of the tapes. Then you can be generous and do it for a small amount and come out looking like a wonderful person.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:

You are right. I need to put my petty attitude aside. It is hard sometimes though!

I know that I've said it before, however, YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Grace,

I haven't been following all the messages on this thread, but I thought you were going to ignore the request. However if you have changed your mind, I would certainly agree with Michele's drafted response. Don't state you will be charging for the tapes, just ask why they want them for now. Franklly I might be inclined to copy the tapes and erase every 2nd or 3rd sentence on the copied tape. Charge them $50 for the tape that they won't be able to decipher! LOL
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Mary,
It sounds like you may have a little spiteful side also (erase every 2nd or 3rd sentence).
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Grace,

Sometimes you just have to fight fire with fire! Being a natural redhead and also Italian, I can be fiesty!!
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Uggg... dont keep tapes of meetings. It will only be used for litigation.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posted:
Steve,
Thank you for your response, however that is exactly why I want the tapes. If you have not read any other of my threads, you would see how the PM has denied what she has previously said on a number of occasions. I think she wants to see if she has backtracked on anything recently.

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