💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
Three years ago we installed an access control system at our pool that allowed the use of either individual key codes (think PIN) or key cards. At the time we chose to go with key codes because that would be easier for homeowners to use. Unfortunately it turned out to be too easy, and last year we had several codes get passed around to people who should not have been allowed to have access.

This year we decided to go to key cards. At the homeowners meeting in November we announced the change, and told everyone that there would be a $20 refundable security deposit required in order to receive a key card. In the February newsletter we again announced that because of the problems we had last year we would be switching to key cards and repeated the $20 REFUNDABLE security deposit. Last month I posted on the website that there would be a $20 REFUNDABLE security deposit for the key cards. In the newsletter that went out last week along with the annual pool registration form we again reiterated that there would be a $20 REFUNDABLE security deposit. All anyone has to do is turn in their key card and they will get a full refund.

Tonight I received an email from a homeowner demanding to know why we are charging him $20 for a pool key when he just paid (late) his $400 annual assessment.

Do I really need to respond to him?
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
You probably wouldn't have this problem if the $20 were refundable. . . .

JUST kidding!

I would make it a short and sweet reply along the lines something like this:

Dear Resident:

Thank you for your recent question regarding the $20 REFUNDABLE fee for the pool access key cards.

The $20 REFUNDABLE fee for the key card is not tied to the annual budget, but is a control mechanism for the key cards to encourage homeowners to maintain and return them.

Homeowners are not obligated or required to obtain key cards, in which case we would not charge them a $20 REFUNDABLE fee for something they are not getting.

On the other hand, if a homeowner decides to use the pool, when he receives his key access card in exchange for a $20 REFUNDABLE fee, that $20 REFUNDABLE fee for the cards will be REFUNDED, as in RETURNED, to the resident when the key cards are turned back into The Office.

Again, thanks for your question and should you have any additional questions, please do not hesitate to call 1-800-CAN-JOHNNY-READ?

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
The Key Cards would be considered property of the HOA and subject to all rules and regulations established by the Association, correct?
KathrynM5 (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Michele....just had to comment on your post to this question. THAT MADE MY DAY! lol
DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
Thanks Michele. I think you "get it". I've always prided myself on being able to respond to every homeowner query or complaint. But maybe because to the long week I've had, every time I started to respond to this one, it started out along the lines of "What part of REFUNDABLE do you not understand?" Your suggested response is almost perfect and I'm going to liberally plagiarize it (except maybe the last line, even though I would really really like to include it).

Kevin - I like where you are going. Yes, we can consider the key cards to be the property of the HOA since they will only work with our system and the HOA purchased the cards. Since they do belong to us, Michele's line about the $20 being "a control mechanism ... to encourage homeowners to maintain and return them" makes even more sense. In fact, I think I'll mark the cards as "Property of XXXXXXXX HOA" just to reinforce that thought.

Thanks guys. You came through again, even though I was somewhat just venting.
PeterB1 (Florida)
Posts: 257
Posted:
Dwight,

I tend to reply to this type of situation with a note that says... As we wrote in the newsletter: and then quote what you previously wrote.

People like this don't deserve your time.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
I would reply something like this:
As previously communicated there is a $20 deposit on the key card. This is refundable when turned back in.

All the same, I wonder why you are asking so much for the cards. I know they aren't free and money doesn't grow on trees. But $5 would probably cover the costs and residents would be quicker to come get a replacement for a lost card. As you are already aware the key only does its function if it is strictly in the possession of those who should have it.

Having worked several jobs where key cards were used, I don't think that high fees cause fewer cards to be lost. But they certainly slow the speed at which lost cards are reported.
DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
Kirk -
That is a valid question, and it was the subject of a fairly lively debate involving the Board, the Pool committee, and some homeowners. Some wanted a higher fee, some wanted a lower fee, some wanted no fee at all. We finally settled on $20 as the best compromise.

The cards cost us $5 each in bulk, so that would be the minimum fee. But since homeowners will not be required to return their keys at the end of the season (they can just keep their card for use next year), we decided that once we set the amount of the fee we would pretty much never want change it: if it's $5 this year, but next year the cost of the cards goes up to $10, we would end up with an administrative headache trying to keep track of who paid how much for which card. Yes it would be possible to track it by the card #, but we decided to set the amount and be done with it.

As to $20 being a disincentive for reporting lost cards, that is a possibility. We felt that it wasn't that bad, and could be an incentive for homeowners keep track of their card. If we do find someone in the pool area using a card that they are not authorized to use (and trust me, the other homeowners will report them), we can disable the card and contact the homeowner.

In the end it is a judgment call. Some HOAs may settle on a lower fee, some higher. We felt that for our neighborhood, $20 was not unreasonable.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Dwight,
I am surprized to detect a little timidness in your comfort level of a Board decision. In this INSTANCE it is not reasonable for the board to have to explain how this decision was reached. You said it.......it was a judgement call.......over and done with......no further explanation warranted.
DavidS3 (Maryland)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Dwight

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think what the member wants to know is why you do not budget the initial cost of the keys from the $400 general assessment and then charge individuals for the replacement of any keys that they have lost. I'm sure you have a good answer for that although it isn't obvious to me what it is. "Refundable", in any font or type size has nothing to do with it. One can wish that the member would follow the Board's pronouncements and ask questions in a more timely way, but in general they don't, and every Board member should learn to live with it.

DaveS
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Can I get 15.00 back if I lose my key?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

DJ,

NOPE, now you owe another $20.00 God, that's cheap. My rental place charges $45.00 because the keys are "special"
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidS3 on 05/16/2009 11:54 AM
Dwight

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think what the member wants to know is why you do not budget the initial cost of the keys from the $400 general assessment and then charge individuals for the replacement of any keys that they have lost. I'm sure you have a good answer for that although it isn't obvious to me what it is. "Refundable", in any font or type size has nothing to do with it. One can wish that the member would follow the Board's pronouncements and ask questions in a more timely way, but in general they don't, and every Board member should learn to live with it.

DaveS

Because it's a control mechanism and not a budget issue.

There's bad behavior that is also trying to be corrected.

If people end up giving out their key card, then they risk losing $20, and then will have to cough up an additional (refundable) $20 to get another one.

It's not about the budget it's about making unauthorized access "cost" the irresponsible homeowner in some way.

Call it a "motivation" fee.

Personally, I'd make the first issued card come with a $20 REFUNDABLE fee, and INCREASE that "refundable" fee for subsequent (replacement) cards.

$20 for the first card; $45 for the second; $75 for the third, etc etc etc. (call it a "slow learners" fee).
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Unbelievable that some thing $20 is too much for the use of a pool for one year. Let's see that's how much per day. I would just tell them it's their choice whether they want or do not want access to the pool.
TomW6 (Texas)
Posts: 1
Posted:
The idea of a key card for the pool area seems like a great way to allow legitimate pool access and yet be able to quickly revoke unauthorized use. I like it a lot.

Your disgruntled homeowner probably assumed the $400 HOA assessment more than likely included support for the pool in the form of, but not limited to daily maintenance, repairs, supplies, insurance, and life-guard personnel salaries. If this is correct, then the homeowner could properly presume that the cost of the access control card would also be paid from the assessment. Why another $20?

It's a legitimate question. A current HOA member should have access to the pool without further cost. You (the BOD), on the other hand, have the responsibility to limit use of the pool to authorized HOA members and their legitimate guests. Enter the key card. It seems to me a reasonable expectation that a key card should be issued to each requesting HOA member free of charge since they have already paid for the privilege of using the pool with the $400 assessment. Include the costs of the cards in next year's pool budget and the disgruntled homeowner's complaint is settled.

The problem here appears to be restricting the use of the key card to authorized HOA members. It has been pointed out that unauthorized use of the pool can be quickly identified by legitimate pool users. Whether this unauthorized use can be traced to a particular key card is problematical, but if it can be tied to a particular key card, then card cancellation can be speedily effected. The HOA member responsible for that key card no longer has access to the pool without a replacement card. Here is where the penalty for loaning out the key card is imposed. When an HOA member requests a replacement for the initial free key card is where you collect the $20 key card "replacement charge", and this time it's not ever refundable. This changes the "fee" to a "penalty" where a penalty is clearly needed. and offers the opportunity to increase subsequent "lost key card" penalties, make that charges progressively higher. It further relieves the HOA of the burden of tracking the amount of a fee refund when the key card is returned since the card was free to begin with. Monies paid in penalties are not refundable.

This gives the HOA members their expected use of the pool without further costs. It also provides the HOA an increasingly higher penalty as a tool to fulfill their responsibility to limit pool use to legitimate HOA members.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here