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JayM7 (Arizona)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Greetings from Arizona.

Recently I was elected to the board of our new community which we just received from the builder.

I have a question on Golf courses.

One of our board members works as a course Marshall volunteer at the course that runs through the community. He has begun a campaign to seal off all all access points(Which are actually storm runoff areas) claiming legal concerns. We cannot afford this since it would be an extensive program and would really be stupid since the roads and cart paths are accessible in a dozen or more places other then the runoff areas. He states the course is getting tired of people on the golf course. He also states vandalism inside these corridors. I checked with the owner and developer who, by the way, owns four other golf courses in the area in larger communities. He stated their only concern was night access but they have no way of knowing just how many people at night access the course since they have no one there after dark.

They do get some on during the day now and then, but really not anymore then any other Golf course does they own and it has not been a real concern or issue.

He(Board member) then stated that the irrigation water lake located on the course would be our liability if someone drowns. Here again I checked and there has been no one around these ponds. I also checked other golf courses and they stated the same thing and that it has never been an issue.

I guess my question is do we as a HOA have the responsibility now to make the Golf course "Safe" from our members? Myself I bought the house because of how open things were. Placing Block walls everywhere will make it look like a prison. It seems to me that the developer should be on the hook for any of these modifications not us if they are in fact now a liability for us. If anyone has dealt with this before I would sure like to know. We would be the only Golf course in the area and maybe anywhere that has taken these types of measures. I have attached the pond in question from one of our greenways. Each home facing the golf Course has a combo Block and Iron Fence.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Just a couple of points, for clarification:

Does your HOA "own" or is it expected to maintain the pond in question? If not, then I'm not sure how it could be your HOA's liability.

Is the golf course owned by the HOA?

If yes to either, does the HOA maintain insurance on those areas?

If no, then, again, not sure how either would be your HOA's liability - or responsibility.

And finally, this board member is just one vote.

Unless he can communicate a concern that others buy into, then he will probably always just have the one vote.

However, it might be prudent to do just what you are doing, finding out all the correct answers to compile a list of counter-talking points when and if he ever gets a legitimate campaign going.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
This one person's "campaign" has no real power and the board should caution him from speaking or acting as an agent of the HOA. ALL decisions will be decided by the entire board - perhaps even by the Membership - so he should be reminded that all his efforts are in the "speculation" phase. He can gather his facts and make a presentaion to the powers that be . . .
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Jay,

I also live in a golf course community but ours is privately owned. Based upon your message, I'm under the impression your golf course is owned by the developer and not the HOA. If this is correct, then the HOA cannot seal off access points and shouldn't be concerned about vandalism or any other issue that is a problem for the golf course or the lake located on the golf course. BTW, there are 12 lakes in my HOA and I've never heard of any accidents occuring at any lake and there have certainly been no drownings. My community is going on 20 yrs old!

Regarding sealing off access points that are actually storm runoff areas, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. The City/county most likely required these storm runoff areas. They are referred to as water retention areas and are mandated by the County as part of their 100 year flood plan. At least that is the case here in Maricopa County and I've been told all counties in AZ should have the same requirements. Where does this guy think the water will go if these areas are blocked off? IMO, his proposal is just NOT something that can take place, no matter who owns the golf course.

I really feel for you and the other board members having to deal with this guy who appears to be a real idiot! It's bad enough when board members have to deal with a member like this, but IMO, it's ten times worse when that idiot is a board member. I shudder to think how he's going to handle the real issues facing the BOD. Please tell me he's not the Pres.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
And to your point, Mary, and the OP's regarding drowning or injury at the ponds, it's not so much that nothing horrible has happened in 20 years (or 2 years) but that on the apparently off chance that something would happen, the HOA would not be liable.

At least that's what I'm understanding you two as saying, correct?

I know we have never had an incident of personal injury at our pond/lake, but I still would not risk not having insurance on it.

As long as the proper insurance is in place, by the owners of the property, then the HOA should have nothing to worry about should something awful happen.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michele,

Agreed!

Of course we don't know who owns the golf course and the lake in question. I'm thinking it's the developer. I believe in most instances the HOA does not own the golf course, but I know there are some that do.
JayM7 (Arizona)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Thanks to all of you for your reply's.

Every comment made by you folks verified
what I have been getting from others.

The Pond is not on HOA property and is not owned by us at all. The storm Drains in question according to the developer of record, could not be altered in anyway shape or form without being engineered and approved by them.

Thanks for the info on the liability issue as the Owner of the course has others near and around the valley and I am sure, given the size of the Corporation that they have sufficient liability.

Thanks again to all.

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