Enforce CC&R regulations during drought in FL

Started by HankD • 35 replies • 3882 views

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HankD (Florida)
Posts: 10

Posted:

I'm on the BOD in a central Florida HMO and we have about 15 homeowners (out of 180) who stopped watering their lawn due to the bad economy and the high cost of watering. Compounding this is that central Florida is experiencing a drought so many homes have yellow if not dead grass.

Should the ARC be lenient and not send violations to these homeowners until the rainy season starts (maybe June) ?

Hank

JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967

Posted:

Hank,

What do your docs state re: watering, esp. what is considered proper or enough, and what are the penalties for not doing so?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Hank,
I am afraid that this is out of the hands of the HOA and enforcement. Many counties already are under water restrictions and the couple of hours allowed once a week are not going to make the grass green. Is your County not under estrictions? Be prepaired to see brown lawns until the Hurricanes come thru and hopefully refill Lake "O". Until then, the Board will have to adopt a temporary watering policy. I'v paid huge watering bills in S. Florida and they can be overwhelming so why add hardships to an already hard situation. If you have Flortam, it will look dead and come back once it is watered.

HankD (Florida)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Our docs state homeowners must maintain lawns up to standards (ie, green grass, no dead spots, no damaged lawn due to bugs, etc...). The ARC sends 3 violations over a 45 day period before a final notice is sent with a threat of legal action if the problem is not remedied. No fines are imposed, though it is allowed according to Bylaws, because a prior Board felt collecting fines was too much of a problem.

Hank

Hank

JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967

Posted:

I'm with Donna. Though I'm not a Master Gardener as our respected colleague, in a single season, I believe, grass won't die for lack of water. It just goes dormant when stressed. Maybe not pretty, but the stress on some of your Membership may be greater. Take a deep breath and wait for Mother Nature to straighten things out.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

John and Hank,

From the Master Gardener handbook

"Proper lawn watering is 1 inch, once a week" That's alot of water and with the shoddy sprinkler systems that they install in homes, even watering a couple of times a week does not give you the 1 inch. It only promotes shallow root growth, which dry out after a little bit of heat.

P.S. Ever notice how the grass along the curb area is dryer than the other areas? Concrete!! It can heat up the soil to over 90* as far in a 20 or more inches.

My vote goes for letting it dry out temporarily. Check with your County for water restrictions as well.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Actually, I am in big trouble with the spouse right now. We are installing a "Rain Garden" to prevent all of the streaming of water off of the lot.(and I am on the computer) These will be restrictions in the near future from our State so we thought that we would start today as long as last weeks 6 inches of rain made digging possible. Keeping the water out of the storm sewers will also help the health of our waterways. (fertilizers and yard chemicals)

JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967

Posted:

DOCTOR
What was the message, Mr. Gard(en)er?

CHAUNCY
Now get this, honky. You tell Rapahel that I ain't takin' no jive from no Western Union messanger. You tell that asshole if he got something to tell me, to get his ass down here himself. Then he said I should get my white ass out of there, or he'd cut it.

(Hilarious outtake from "Being There" shown under the end credits, part of a scene which did not appear in the movie. Peter Sellers was incensed about this addition to the final cut, and director Hal Ashby was not, and never has been, paid for this great directorial accomplishment, as the outtake's inclusion was deemed a breach of contract).

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

John,
The message was that I got 6 inches of rain that I don't know what to do with. Florida has none. I'm just trying to figure out how to send it down to Hank.

JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967

Posted:

Donna,

Seeing the postage rates went up today, shipping 6 inches x area of water could prove to be quite expensive.

Returning to "Being There", Sir (later Lord) Laurence Olivier (I saw his tomb at Westminster Abbey, BTW) was offered the part of Benjamin Rand, for which Melvyn Douglas won an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor. But Larry refused the gig, saying that he would not appear in a film in which Shirley McClaine would be shown masturbating.

Larry? Having been married to Viv Leigh?

Go figger.

PeterB1 (Florida)
Posts: 257

Posted:

Disagree with most.

We are in SW Florida - one of the driest counties in the State. We have water restrictions. Our CCRs say that you must maintain a green lawn.

About 95% of our residents are doing the best they can - and their lawns show some green. Some of our residents turned off their sprinklers because of the dry weather.

We are going after those who obviously don't care about the appearance of their yards. We are NOT going after those who water, but there are still brown areas in their lawn.

WHY? We have a number of homes for sale here and the quickest way to turn people off is a dead lawn. As trivial as it may seem, we are in fact trying to maintain property values and encourage sales. And it is working!

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Peter,
Been there, done that. But I do wonder just how you can feel right about enforcing the covenants when it does not work to go against what nature is doing. Up to a point, okay, like trimming, keeping the yard neat and picked up but green grass may not be practical and enforceable with what is happening now. What happens when your Water District says NO MORE LAWN WATERING? It may happen. Look at Atlanta last year. Their water source dried up in Lake Altonia

HankD (Florida)
Posts: 10

Posted:

JohnK3,

Yes, grass in PA will lie dormant for a while before it dies but that's not the case here - with St Augustine grass. And furthermore, you should be sanctioned from this board for including innapropriate language and subjects that have nothing to do with the issue here.

HankD

Hank

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

I'm in Pasco county florida and we have water restrictions. One neighboring HOA was featured on the news for fining a owner for not cleaning her house. WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THE WATER. You have to follow the law.
Barbara

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Peter,

My best friend lives in Bonita Springs and they are in a high end developement there. That whole area is more high end than much of Florida but when the water gets shut off, it will all be the same and that is dry. You won't be able to sell lush Florida then.

When I lived down there I was involved in the Everglades Restoration Project. You should attend one of their meetings and your lawns for sale won't seem so significent anymore. Sorry but in reality unless something is done to restrict and restore water usage, you might be looking at rock lawns and cactus gardens.

PeterB1 (Florida)
Posts: 257

Posted:

Donna,

I hear you and consider myself 'pro-environment'. But, we try to run the HOA to please the most people, most of the time. When the water district says water only 2 days, that's what we do. If they say cut off the water, we will.

However, there are always a few who try to take advantage of any situation. Here is a case of a very few who will neglect the appearance of their yard - because they think they can.

We remain flexible in our positions. Today, we ask that you do your best to maintain your lawn. Next week, we might soften our position.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Peter,
Gotcha!. Good attitude.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

If the county or town has water restrictions, those rules are above your CCRs. So you wouldn't be able to enforce the CCRs in that particular case.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

First a shout-out to John:

"Being There" is one of my top-ten favorite movies of all time! My husband and I often have to just turn to each other and say, "You tell Ra-fi-ell. . ." and we both bust a gut. (I spelled it phonetically because that's where the humor lies, for us! In the way Chance says it!)

One of Sellers' more genius flicks.

Next, re: this topic:

I have a question for Hank, the CC&Rs say this: "Our docs state homeowners must maintain lawns up to standards"

Does it specifically say "must be green" or just have a vague "be maintained" or "be up to standards," because if that is the case, the ARC COMM can define what "up to standards" is during a dry season.

In which case, making allowances as Donna pointed out would be quite acceptable and within your governing documents and enforceable.

Just sayin'

DarleneL1 (Florida)
Posts: 97

Posted:

I'm also in Pasco County, Florida and we are only allowed to water one MORNING a week and all of my landscaping has died in addition to the grass. We are allowed no car washing, hand watering only in some instances and no water features running without a good reason. With that being said, we follow the laws because we are all on wells and would not want to see the wells dry up because the HOA's are being ridiculous and worring about green grass when it will all change in a couple of weeks when the rainy season arrives. Several of the neighbors have gotten fines from the County and I know that if the HOA forces and kind of watering, AT ALL, they will be paying these fines. I think that the HOA should give a little with regard to green lawns in this situation unless they want to be taken to court as well.

JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MicheleD on 05/12/2009 7:03 AM
First a shout-out to John:

"Being There" is one of my top-ten favorite movies of all time! My husband and I often have to just turn to each other and say, "You tell Ra-fi-ell. . ." and we both bust a gut. (I spelled it phonetically because that's where the humor lies, for us! In the way Chance says it!)

One of Sellers' more genius flicks.

Just sayin'

Mich,

I'd put it my top 20, and me & Mrs. JohnK also use that line when suggesting someone be told to stuff it.

However, as you've seen, 8 post Hank has cautioned me:

>>>you should be sanctioned from this board for including innapropriate language and subjects that have nothing to do with the issue here.<<<

I'll guess that will now apply to you, too. And as 9 post GeorgeR3 is getting in your face on another thread, "innapropriate" (sic) behavior could lead to your downfall (as it could mine), so please be careful, girl.

Yeah, right. Around the time the Cubs win a World Series, eh?

HankD (Florida)
Posts: 10

Posted:

I'd like to thank everyone who responded to the issue I brought up. We have decided to wait another month for the rain to start, then go after those who still ignore the responsibilities they've accepted by buying into a deed restricted community.

Hank

Hank

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Hank,
That's probably the most sensable route to take. Up here we have some developements that had allowed Bermuda grass to be planted. It completely browns out in the winter and does not need cutting then.Actually we get used to seeing the brown lawns. This is sort of what you are dealing with, only a little different

Next door in my developement, we are required to have Tall Fescue which stays green all winter long. It looks great but requires more water and cuttingand more fertilizer than the Bermuda. So who is smarter here? ???????

TracyT (Maryland)
Posts: 228

Posted:

Wow I haven't been here in quite a while - forgot how fun it could be.

My "out-laws" live in Vero Beach, they were just up here last week-end and we happened to discuss their HOA rules (not CCR). One of which requires 2/3 of lawn to be visible (I'm sure it has to be green as well since all homes have sprinklers). I just don't think that's very responsible for longevity of ecology. We hear all the time about droughts FL and throughout the US.

Here in MD everybodies grass goes dormant in the winter so we all have brown lawns even if we its a mild and have enough rain or snow. We also get brown/splotchy during our many summer droughts. It is what it is and we're all in the same boat.

The only time I've ever water my lawn or landscaping was the very first season they were installed. The landscaping selected/installed is appropriate for our climate conditions and looks great all of the time.

I just hope this [string] will help all HOAs to reconsider rules lawns and landscaping.

T

DarleneL1 (Florida)
Posts: 97

Posted:

Hank,
I think that whatever HOA you're living in is being extremely ridiculous with wanting people to have green lawns in Florida after 3 1/2 years of drought conditions!! If the county and government states there is a water restriction, one month is not going to make a difference here!! I live here in Florida, and it is extremely insensitive of you as a person on the BOD to not take into account the reason Florida has put a ban on watering. We need the water for other more important purposes like drinking, bathing, etc. I think you should lighten up a bit with the strict rules. Yes, people bought into a CC&R community, but it is also their responsibility to consider the environment and the need for water for other purposes here in Florida. Again, we are on a well and I would hate to see it dry up because some people think that their grass is more important than our having drinking water. I hate to say it, but I would be the first to turn in anyone not following the watering restrictions with the sink hole problems here as well. You wonder why people don't like HOA's.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

I believe that your approach to the situation seems reasonable but I would have to agree with Darlene that expecting the grass to be green during these environmental conditions seems unreasonable. I would find such covenants or expectations of the HOA to be much like those banning clotheslines... obsolete.

I used to have St. Augustine grass, but with the water restrictions, I had to stop. Now most of my lawn is Bahia grass, but even with watering a couple days, its only green for one afternoon, and then goes back to dry!

If you're really concerned about property values, only water the lawns before a realtor holds an open house

MicheleS3 (Florida)
Posts: 30

Posted:

This is a big problem in our community on the east coast of Florida. We do have water restrictions; twice weekly, but we also have 15-20 homeowners who just don't water at all. I don't it has anything to do with the restrictions and more with laziness or just don't care about their property. Unfortunately, for us, the only restriction regarding lawns that we have in our CCR's is about grass that is too long. Nothing about brown or dead grass. This completely baffles me as the water is at no cost to them and the power to run an irrigation pump a couple times of week is pretty minimal. Honestly, you just can't fix stupid.

MicheleS3 (Florida)
Posts: 30

Posted:

Donna, you couldn't be more wrong! St. Augustine and / or Floratam do not come back after weeks of no watering. After a few days you can usually get it back, but after about 2 weeks you can forget that. And you can absolutely keep your St. Augustine green watering two times weekly. We do -

DarleneL1 (Florida)
Posts: 97

Posted:

Michael,
I'm sorry, but in Florida, you are only allowed to water once a week now and only during certain morning hours and believe me they are enforcing that law! So whether 2 times a week works or not it's not allowed.

MicheleS3 (Florida)
Posts: 30

Posted:

I believe that currently that only applies to Dade and Monroe Counties (South FL). Here on the east coast we can still water twice weekly between 8 PM and 10 AM. But I'm going to check that out, just in case!

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Michelle,

Martin Co is once a week. And we had Flortam which dried out, not died out but it came back each and every time that we went thru the watering restrictions. Flortam was bred by U. of Fl for this very reason.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Michelle,

Maybe what you see as dead lawn might be the dreaded chinch bug which will kill the Flortam when it is stressed-aka-no watering. When that hits, it really becomes dead and there is no saving it. Most of the sods planted on both coasts are laid ontop of sand and garbage silt from digging out the palmatto and garbage preserve vegetation. Now that's hard to grow grass in those conditions and no amount of watering will save it.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343

Posted:

I'm dead in the center of Florida and underneath my lawn is nice gray sand! Dig a little deeper and you get to a mix of clay. The past couple years my neighbors installed new St. Augustine grass. They watered it according to their restrictions, and it still wound up dying so they had to re sod after the drought.

On the other hand, my other house has nice dirt, and St. Augustine grass. Watered twice a week in the morning, and I still have brown spots...

DarleneL1 (Florida)
Posts: 97

Posted:

Micahel, you may be correct, but it applies to Citrus, Hernando, Pasco, Hillsborough and maybe more. I think with all of these counties are putting restrictions on the watering, the HOA's in all counties should be more conscious of the water problems and try to help out by not wasting water with watering lawns unless it is absolutely necessary and that doesn't mean for looks.

BobN2 (Florida)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonnaS on 05/11/2009 3:51 PM

Peter,

My best friend lives in Bonita Springs and they are in a high end developement there. That whole area is more high end than much of Florida but when the water gets shut off, it will all be the same and that is dry. You won't be able to sell lush Florida then.

When I lived down there I was involved in the Everglades Restoration Project. You should attend one of their meetings and your lawns for sale won't seem so significent anymore. Sorry but in reality unless something is done to restrict and restore water usage, you might be looking at rock lawns and cactus gardens.

If the water shorted is that bad then why would Lake County let a bottle water company open up and pull 1 million gallons out a day?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

3 reasons,

#1, Someone in govt on the take,

#2, No common sense

#3 Not in S. Florida where there is no water.

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