Who Knows Who Owes Money

There have been several threads recently concerning records of unpaid dues. It seems there are two very different views by those expressing opinions here.

One group seems to believe that those who owe the association is confidential information and is not (and should not) be available to the membership.

Another group seems to think that association records are (should be) available to the membership.

I strongly fall into the second group! And my frame of reference is Florida laws. Donna pointed specifically to the Florida (HOA) that says each member of the association may review the records of the association. I am not aware of any other state prohibiting access to records (nor am I an expert!).

I think a lot of people get hung up on the idea that not everyone should know who has not paid their dues. These people think that lists should not be created or published. However, think about how the Treasurer works. If there were no clear records of financial transactions, the association would fall apart quickly. If you ask the Treasurer 'how many people are behind in their dues', he/she should know instantly.

While it may be risky (from a legal viewpoint) to publish a list of members who owe monies, there is every reason for that information to be presented in Board of Directors meetings. As the Treasurer for my HOA, that is exactly what I do! The meetings are open and should an association member attend the meeting, he/she would become aware of the dues owed and by whom.

Your thoughts?

Peter, most states with detailed HOA/Condo laws also have protections in place to protect someone's privacy during enforcement actions, check your states laws. For example collecting assessments, the CC&R's say you must pay them, if you don't you are in violation and the BOD moves to collect. I'm not an attorney so the usual caveats apply but our CC&R's allow any member the right to inspect their account not the account of their neighbor. Further while Ohio condo law does give members the right to examine the COA's records there are limitations to those rights:

5311.091 (B) The unit owners association is not required to permit the examination and copying of any of the following from books, records, and minutes:

(1) Information that pertains to condominium property-related personnel matters;

(2) Communications with legal counsel or attorney work product pertaining to pending litigation or other condominium property-related matters;

(3) Information that pertains to contracts or transactions currently under negotiation, or information that is contained in a contract or other agreement containing confidentiality requirements and that is subject to those requirements;

(4) Information that relates to the enforcement of the declaration, bylaws, or rules of the unit owners association against unit owners;

(5) Information the disclosure of which is prohibited by state or federal law.

IMHO even a late notice would constitute enforcement and therefore not be subject to review by members not party to the action. Even when a lien has been filed or a foreclosure action this would be covered by the enforcement clause and the attorney privilege clause which is why we tell H/O if they want to know who we've taken action against to visit the County's website where that information is public record. We do however provide copies of the past months financials to anyone who attends a BOD meeting or requests them; included in the financials is an aggregate total of the current delinquencies with all identifying information redacted.

Peter,

Some states have open meeting laws which prohibit certain types of records from being open to the membership. FL and AZ are two such states. I know the AZ open meeting law regards this type info as confidential; however, I believe the FL law does not.

Of course board members are privy to this information, that goes without saying. By information I mean the names of the delinquent members and the amount delinquent. Members can be given the amount of delinquencies being carried by the assn, but they cannot be given the names of the delinquent members. Why would an individual member need that info anyhow? All a member needs to know is the total amount of delinquencies. I agree this info should be presented at a board meeting, that is the CLOSED portion of a board meeting. OF course if the FL statute does not regard this as confidential info then it cannot be discussed in a closed session and should not be withheld from any member requesting it.

Bottom line. . .

State law rules!

Steve,

"C. Receive Notice of an alleged default by any unit owner, for whom such mortgagee holds a mortgage, . . ."

By saying, "for whom such mortgagee holds a mortgage" is explict in saying they are only concerned about delinquencies on properties on which they hold a mortgage.

If "examining the books" means looking at financial statements it also means not seeing who paid and who didn't. If "examining the books" means looking at each member's individual account, then you would know who paid and who didn't. I can't imagine a mortgage co that would want to examine an HOAs books at all, much less to that extent.

Steve,

The "mortgagee" is the lender; the "mortgagor" is the borrower.

We send a status list to all members listing the status of all assessments once a year.

That includes whether paid or unpaid for the year as of the date of the production of the list.

The list includes the address only.

Barb asks:

>>>So again, what is wrong with publishing/posting lot/unit number and delinquent amount?<<<

I'd ask:

What good does it accomplish vs. the harm it (could) cause among Membership?

I'm fine with informing Membership of amounts in arrears (a problem our HOA does not have), but the Who's A Deadbeat part? Why?

I have been the TREAS for several years (12) and many times I have wanted to do that but why start a war over what? paper!
We have a rule 2 months behind and we throw you under the bus.
You are sent to our Foreclosure Dept after a final warning letter. They send you a 30 day last warning letter and at the end of 30 days ( actually 90 days total ) a additional fee of $1500 is added to you amount owed and a lien for the total amount is placed on the home.

Say what you wish but we are running a business not some social organization. Do people get sent to the agency more than once? yes I have 3 out of 307 owners in that situation, I also have 18 empty homes. Before you ask the answer is I go AFTER THE BANKS AS FAST AS THE MEMBERS. After foreclosure I send the Banks a warning letter at 60 days I send them to the agency also. How muxh does it cost the HOA $300 a unit and when the unit is sold we get all our money down to the dime...............Right now there is a bill before the Florida Legislature forcing Banks to pay from the date of foreclosure on.

My BOD feels if you foreclose on a home in our HOA you are according to our CCRS a member of the HOA hence you owe us money...........
With 18 empty homes I have no owner bad debt on the books.............

Barbara,

There have been a few Florida lawyers on different T.V shows and seminars who have stated that IN FLORIDA, it is illegal to publish the names of delinquent owners UNTIL the leins or forclosures are for public record.

Maybe it is a State thing but that is what I have seen. My association down there puts a item or case number on a delinquency for use at Board meetings. Not the addresses but a case number. That way a members name is not used.

Once the lein or forclosure is filed, it is the PUBLIC RECORD, thus the name can be used. We have hashed this over a hundred times here and many, of which I am one, want to know what good it does to make the identity known until either it gets taken care of or it goes to a legal process? Making someone feel like low life because they may have gotten laid off or maybe worse is just not the right thing to do.

Mary,
I am aware that the board members receive all of the information regarding delinquencies.....but do the members? We have 20-25 people out of 465 attend the board meetings. We are a vacation community and most members only zip in on a Friday evening and leave on Sunday evening once a month or so.
If an association has a high delinquency rate the paying members have to pick up the slack with a higher assessment or worse yet a special assesment. Why then shouldn't they know who has not paid and how much? I would like to know about the guy down the street who rents out his three units and brings in a good monthly rental income and does not pay his assessments. If I met up with him, I would ask him! I would not ask Mr and Mrs XYZ. I trust the BOD to follow the proper procedure for collections. I feel that when the non-payers affect the paying members pocketbooks, they need to know to who, what, when and why....that's the transparency I am referring to.

Barb

Barbara,

Do your docs require that the members be informed about delinquencies? Perhaps your board is not much on communication, but if assessments are being raised to offset these delinquencies that information should be made available to the members. However, the only info that needs to be given is what action is being taken to collect the delinquent assessments; the names of the delinquent h/o's don't need to be given out. And, really, just what would you do with the info? Go ahead a confront the guy who rents his property but doesn't pay, he's likely to tell you "It's none of your G-D business!" So what have you accomplished, except to have gained a new found enemy? Not giving out these names has nothing to do with transparency; but not letting the members know what actions are being taken to collect IS a matter of transparency.