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Fl. notice of meeting to homeowners

Started by SteveP5 • 23 replies • 1480 views

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SteveP5 (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:

I have several problems with our new BOD so, I might have to start more than one thread.

1. Our BOD is holding homeowners meetings with only 2 days notice given in writing.

By given in writing, I mean they included notice of the meeting in maintance reminder that is stuck to the front door of each unit at the end of each month. My understanding of Florida law is that they have to provide 7 days notice in writing or 48 hour notice if the meeting is posted. does including the notice in the maintenance reminder constitute as posting?

2. They are also holding meeting that they exclude home owners from. One of the home owners attempted to attend such a meeting but was told that she was not allowed to attend and that the meeting was for BOD only.

I was not able to attend the Homeowners meeting as I had to be somewhere ells.
I spoke to one of the homeowners who did attend the meeting and was told that my dues have increased by 50 dollars. but the strange thing is that the BOD went back 3 months and retroactively changed the rate as from the beginning of the year meaning I have to pay in an additional 150 dollars this month. (I'm told by the other Homeowner)
as yet I have not received notice from the BOD that the rate has increased so I'm not sure what to pay this month.

Can they retroactively increase the dues back three months and do I have the right to ask for the minutes of the the BOD and Homeowners meetings to see who voted for this increase and why?

Not sure if this is important or not.
The new board is only a volunteer BOD as the last BOD resigned and apparently one of the BOD has made himself the president without anybody voting.
little confused over here.
Steve
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Steve,

This is a question for Donna but my understanding is that in Florida board meetings must be open to all owners. I wouldn't quibble about notice of the meetings if you received 48 hours notice. Doesn't your board meet at the same day every month?

Check you docs which should include increases in assessments. Ours allow for an increase of up to $5 percent. I doubt an increase can be retroactive. What if they decide to make it one year retroactive? Many hoas are experiencing owners not paying so perhaps they thought they could just float this by to make up for that.

All board members are volunteers. Our docs say members vote for the board members then the board appoints these members to serve in what capacity.

You can definitely see minutes of the board meetings.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Steve,

(NUMBER 1)---Fl Statute 303: "1. Notices of all board meetings must be posted in a conspicuous place in the community at least 48 hours in advance of a meeting, except in an emergency. In the alternative, if notice is not posted in a conspicuous place in the community, notice of each board meeting must be mailed or delivered to each member at least 7 days before the meeting, except in an emergency"

It is posted on every unit door on the maintenance notice. That's more direct than most associations would do so you should not complain about that.

(NUMBER 2). "They are also holding meeting that they exclude home owners from. One of the home owners attempted to attend such a meeting but was told that she was not allowed to attend and that the meeting was for BOD only.

"(2) BOARD MEETINGS.-
(a) A meeting of the board of directors of an association occurs whenever a quorum of the board gathers to conduct association business. All meetings of the board must be open to all members except for meetings between the board and its attorney with respect to proposed or pending litigation where the contents of the discussion would otherwise be governed by the attorney-client privilege." Your Board is holding illegal meetings.

As for the assessment, they cannot go retroactive on charging more for assessments. Do you know when the increase in dues was voted on? It could be that this Board is really poor at communicating with the members. You also got this information second hand. Wait until you get a bill for the assessment before you get upset.

Boards are elected by the members or appointed by standing Board members. The Board members decide amoung themselves who shall be the President and perhaps he was the only one who wanted to be President.

I hope that this helps. Run yourself a copy of the 720 Statutes as it sounds like you will need to become familiar with them . Lots of work ahead for you to become a vital, helpful member.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Another great informative post from Donna.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Steve,

Regarding the assessment increase. Thoroughly check out your gov docs; the assessment period should be stated. In many instances it is the calendar year; however it should be the same every year. Also check to see if more than one assessment can be levied in a year. Usually it's only one and its for the same period each year. It could be that the board is late in sending out the notices.
SteveP5 (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Hi Ellen
Thanks for your response.
No, our Board does not meet every month it only meets when something comes up. we are a small group with only 7 units. You would think that we would only have small problems but that is not the case at all.

Last year two of the units were not paying their dues and forced the board to hand them over to the attorneys. Two of the unit owners were out of state and did not want to be on the BOD leaving only three units available to be on the BOD. Of the three units one declined to be on the board leaving only two units to be on the BOD.

if you do the maths you will see that it left my unit and another so my wife agreed to be on the BOD and so did the other remaining unit owner. An election was held to decide who would be president and who would be the treasure. Ballads were given to all the units including the ones who had not paid their dues but only 4 ballads were returned as three units refused to take part in the election.

My wife was elected president and the other unit owner an elderly lady was elected treasurer. Soon after this one of the units that was owned by an out of state owner changed hands and was occupied by the new owners.

This is where it gets strange. One of the unit owners who was one year behind in his maintenance filed a complaint with the state saying that the BOD was acting illegally because it did not represent the majority of home owners.

Now bare in mind we are only homeowners and we don't know the law so the BOD decided the best thing to do was hire a management company.
According to our dockets this is a decision that the board can make without having to get the approval of all the home owners, but my wife held a meeting at our home that all were welcome to attend to explain as to why it was necessary to go to a management company.

All hell broke loose the two unit owners who were behind on their maintenance yelled obscenities cussing at my wife calling her names and threatened to sue if the BOD went ahead and hired the management company. There was no choice we had to ask them to leave as they would not allow anybody ells to speak at this meeting and they were upsetting our three young kids.

The management company was hired and finally we thought things would return to normal as the management company would be able to deal with the problem were were facing and that things would be done by the books so everybody would be happy.

Unfortunately not so. The two unit owners who were behind, the new owner and the owner who previously wanted noting to do with being a part of the BOD hired an attorney and threatened the now new management company with a lawsuit claiming the BOD was illegal because they were not given an opportunity to vote for the BOD or be a part of it. Yes....the two who were behind in their maintenance complained that they were not allowed to be part of the BOD as did the new owner who was not there when the election was held.

Now as we all know any home owner can be on the BOD, but in Florida you can not be on the BOD if you are behind in your maintenance. A letter was sent around via the management company asking people that were eligible to volunteer to be on the BOD.

one of the unit owners who was behind suddenly came up with what he was due and volunteered so did the new owners and the one unit owner who did not want anything to do with the BOD before.

The elderly lady decided to step down as treasurer and off the BOD, so we now had 4 members on the BOD my wife being the president.
The three other members had a meeting. A secret meeting that nobody new about (not the same one I mentioned before) after the meeting they asked my wife to step down or be voted off the BOD. Not wanting to have to deal with the hassle my wife stepped down.

Our new BOD broke the deal with the management company and took over the books.

The now new president is the very same guy who did not pay his maintance for a year and only paid up before all of this so he could be on the BOD. last time we asked he was again behind on his maintenance but not sure about that now because we don't have access to the Bank accounts.

About a month ago when my wife stepped down, I volunteered to be the 4th member on the BOD but I have been told that they are ignoring me and that they don't want me on the BOD.
I suspect the last homeowners meeting was held at a time and date that they knew I would not be able to attend the meeting, but I can't prove that.
The now president has previously made it clear that he has it in for my wife and the elderly lady who was the treasurer because in his words they went after his home by handing him over to the attorneys.

Right off the bat the new BOD is making mistakes and I believe they are acting illegally by not allowing me on the BOD.

Just yesterday after posting the thread I received a note on my door from the new president claiming that I owe 2000 plus dollars for late fees for the year 2008.
I checked my account and almost every one of my maintenance checks were drawn from my account on time. there were only three checks that were late and our BOD did not charge a late fee to anybody not even the guy who did not pay for a full year (the very same president) I have been given 5 days to respond, so naturally I'll provide copies of my checks as proof but this to me is a clear message that we are in for a battle.
I asked the previews treasurer is she ever charged a late fee and she said no and that while she had the books one of the now BOD was always late last year and no late fees were included in the two units outstanding balances either.

Funny thing....again.....the retroactive increase that I spoke of is shown in the letter and spreadsheet that was included and I'm being charged a late fee for short paying the first three months of this year. I'll explain better......They went back three months increased the maintenance by 50 dollars and are now charging me a late fee on that increase. Short pay is no pay so according to the new president I'm three months behind now.

I cant help but think we are being singled out. I'm rather sure that this has been done to prevent me from being able to be on the BOD but I don't have proof of that either.

I know it's wrong to say this, but the new president is a very bombastic rude individual who is also unfortunately not very smart. He goes out of his way to make your life hell. one example, when my wife was president he use to park his car as close to our unit as possible and wash it with his music turned up so load that it rattled our windows refusing to turn it down claiming it was his legal right to do so.

You might think I'm here to gripe but actually I just need to know what my rights are.

SteveP5 (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
BTW.
Sorry if my English is not very good. I struggle a little when it comes to writing English.
DavidH16 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
It seems to me that the entire board is'are candidates for full schooling on HOA procedures and following the covenants and by-laws.
Ask and record hoe many of the board have gone to the training course.
Then act accordingly.

It would br more effective if you have completed the training course!!
DavidH16 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Steve:

There are sound laws in each community.

The noise level is restricted to a certain amount of DBs.

Next time he tries that old dodge, call the security people or better yet call the local police They would have the limits of noise and negotiate him turning it down.
SteveP5 (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
David thanks for your response.
Where can I get more information on such a training course?
SteveP5 (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
David thanks for your response.
Where can I get more information on such a training course?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Steve,

How much time, energy and money do you want to invest in this? There is no school for dealing with your HOA unless you want to attend school to become a CAM (Community Association Manager). Some communities have an occasional "short" coarse or seminars on leadershp of your communities but you will need to research this yourself.

You also need to have a copy of the Statutes which I have already suggested to you. Read them and know your rights. I hear from you that you are fighting this by yourself. How about other members of the association? Where are they in this battle with this new President? You have given us a list of many hearsays, or someone told me's. You would better serve yourself and the system by having proof of items that are being done inproperly. If ever a Judge got any of this, it would be dismissed as all hearsay and not valid.

Then, ask yourself. Is this all worth fighting so much over? Fix it by following your documents and the Statutes as they are the law. If that doesn't work , then quit or hire a lawyer, sorry but you have to get much better aquainted with the right way to fight your numerous complaints against these problems.
SteveP5 (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 04/30/2009 10:56 AM

Steve,

How much time, energy and money do you want to invest in this? There is no school for dealing with your HOA unless you want to attend school to become a CAM (Community Association Manager). Some communities have an occasional "short" coarse or seminars on leadershp of your communities but you will need to research this yourself.

You also need to have a copy of the Statutes which I have already suggested to you. Read them and know your rights. I hear from you that you are fighting this by yourself. How about other members of the association? Where are they in this battle with this new President? You have given us a list of many hearsays, or someone told me's. You would better serve yourself and the system by having proof of items that are being done inproperly. If ever a Judge got any of this, it would be dismissed as all hearsay and not valid.

Then, ask yourself. Is this all worth fighting so much over? Fix it by following your documents and the Statutes as they are the law. If that doesn't work , then quit or hire a lawyer, sorry but you have to get much better aquainted with the right way to fight your numerous complaints against these problems.

Hi Donna
thank you again for your response.
If by getting better acquainted with the right way to fight my complaints you mean get on the computer and start learning a few things then yes I'm doing that right now.
I'm sorry for being so ignorant of the law. I'm just a homeowner trying to learn.

I found this Forum doing a search for information and so far so good. Naturally I am also learning from other websites like the 720 Statutes you recommended.
Before you mentioned it I did not even know what to go look for so thanks for that, but honestly cant all threads on this forum be answered by simply responding with the last paragraph of your post?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Steve,
Yes, learning by reading the Statutes AND your own documents is the best way to start. I have been doing this for a long time as well as many of the posters and I can tell you that your problem is not unique.

You are not ignorant at all because we all are. The laws change continually and even the lawyers are in the same spot that we are. I have read the 720 Statutes hundreds of times and each time, I find something that I had not seen before so just keep read--especially the parts that pertain to your problems. That would be 720:303 and 306 especially.

Well, when it comes to the topics staying on, that probably will never happen. Following a last post answer would be ideal but many of us just hit the site at certain times and if we read the entire thread, then we will wander back up the list. Just be patient with us, we'll get what you want--eventually.
SteveP5 (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
I don't want you to feel that you have to get me anything or do anything for me.
I appreciate the time you took to post on this thread and believe me I appreciate your input.
This is the first place I found where I could search questions that pertain to me and see the responses of mere mortals and not legal gobbledygook that makes my head hurt so I'm glad I found this website.

From reading, it would seam I don't really have many problems, but I do have a lot of work ahead of me. All I have to do is reform my association and bring it on the level. If and when a achieve that goal I might try my hand at world peace. LOL.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Thank God that your association has you and your attitude.

World Peace? GO FOR IT!!! I'll help
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Steve, this is exactly the type of board that gives HOAs a bad name.

For one thing, Donna, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it illegal for them to hold meetings without providing notice or without allowing the members to attend?

Isn't there an organization in Florida to which you can report this sort of thing? Do they investigate? What happens?

It seems, though, that the only recourse may be to contact a lawyer yourself.

Being they are trying to extort over $2,000 from you, this might be a cost-effective move!

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Michelle,
You are correct and I posted the Statue on open meetings and notification for Steve above.

Boards that are really rogue and extremely nuts can be reported to the State Attorney General as he can enforce the laws. If Steve wants to single handed want to take them on, especially with his assessmant, then HE has to hire an attorney and file for mediation--or the HOA could do it. Either way, his case would go to State mediation but that is proving to be not always effective. Cases take forever to get on the docket.
SteveP5 (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleD on 04/30/2009 12:28 PM
Steve, this is exactly the type of board that gives HOAs a bad name.

For one thing, Donna, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it illegal for them to hold meetings without providing notice or without allowing the members to attend?

Isn't there an organization in Florida to which you can report this sort of thing? Do they investigate? What happens?

It seems, though, that the only recourse may be to contact a lawyer yourself.

Being they are trying to extort over $2,000 from you, this might be a cost-effective move!


Being the good student that I am I have learned that in the last meeting that was held the board made an increase in the amount members have to pay without proposing a budget.
In a sense they changed or made an amendment without giving 14 days notice in writing that they intended to do so. Not having proposed a budget before increasing the rate means the rate increase is not legal. Changing the rate retroactively back three months is just silly and once I get my hands on the minutes of the meeting (should they exist) I will be able to figure out why thas was done.

The meeting the BOD had that the president excluded homeowners form was illegal so any decisions that were made or votes that were cast are null and void...I think.

By talking to other home owners I found that I'm the only unit being charged a late fee for payments that were made in 08 so I'm looking up "Harassment" right now

I'm hoping to talk to the other BOD soon to explain my predicament and to advice them that they are acting illegally. I don't see the need to get an attorney. Usually when people find out they are breaking the law they tend to want to stop doing it.

As soon as I clear my name I'll be volunteering to be on the BOD again and running in the next election.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveP5 on 04/30/2009 1:41 PM
I don't see the need to get an attorney. Usually when people find out they are breaking the law they tend to want to stop doing it.


I regret to inform you, and I don't mean this harshly, but that is a very naive, and potentially expensive, position to take.

They will not necessarily trust the information you provide them as credible, no matter how black & white you show him.

On the other hand, communication from an attorney warning that X, Y and Z may be (or is) illegal may well get a better response.
SteveP5 (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleD on 04/30/2009 2:07 PM
Posted By SteveP5 on 04/30/2009 1:41 PM
I don't see the need to get an attorney. Usually when people find out they are breaking the law they tend to want to stop doing it.



I regret to inform you, and I don't mean this harshly, but that is a very naive, and potentially expensive, position to take.

They will not necessarily trust the information you provide them as credible, no matter how black & white you show him.

On the other hand, communication from an attorney warning that X, Y and Z may be (or is) illegal may well get a better response.

Somebody once said "walk softly and carry a big stick"
I think I can wordsmith around the word lawyer while still implying that that is the only and logical next step. I can threaten to sue without actualy saying that I'm going to sue........
Besides to sue the BOD does not look like a profitable excersize.

The British had a great strategy for taking over countries it was called Divide and Conker. I have three out of seven unit's votes that I can count on. I only need to convince one member of the board that he is being endangered by the current presidents actions. Nobody openly invites drama into their families lives. If I can get one current board member to break ranks I'll have the majority I need.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Steve, please don't get me wrong.

I'm absolutely not saying to tell them "I'm gonna sue!"

God knows I get this little nugget thrown at us at least once a quarter.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that you very much should get yourself into an attorney.

Give him this story.

You may well even have a "free session" in order to get everything out there on the table.

I sincerely believe that it would be in your best interest to already have an attorney in the loop, show him the extortion threats, the process they did in terms of conducting their coup. All of it.

Because if they file a lien, you may well need to have someone already up to speed.

In addition, having an attorney draft a single letter outlining what actions they are doing that are bordering on illegal, at best unethical, doesn't mean you are going to be suing.

Not at all, and the attorney does not even have to go down that road.

Just the fact that they are aware you have an attorney in the loop, that you aren't afraid to protect yourself, may go a lot further than you think.

But definitely, you are 100 percent closer to the situation. You need to do what you feel you can and should.

Just don't be afraid of attorneys. It could very easily cost you more than the $2K+ without getting one on board.
SteveP5 (Florida)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Point taken.
thanks.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Steve,

You have 3 out of 7 votes. If you can convince one other member to go along with your concerns you'll have a majority. Go for it.

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