Property Manager Voting rights

Started by ShirleyS2 • 10 replies • 1333 views

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ShirleyS2 (Florida)
Posts: 10

Posted:

We are a small bard of 5 people and we have a property manager who is always at our meetings. She writes the minutes as the board did not want to be bothered by the specific legal minutes the Secretary was giving.
Does a property manager have a vote at the Board meeting? At the last meeting our Manager 'abstained' on a situation. That made me wonder. For instance we then have 6 people and that is not legal in Florida.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Shirley, your PM should not be a member of the Board; and only Board members are allowed to vote at Board meetings. It would be a conflict of interest to elect the PM to the Board of Directors.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Shirley,
Goodness gracious, my grandmothe used to say that.
Check your documents and see how many members you are allowed, if it says one per unit, tell the PM to hush and keep taking minutes, although I sure would not a PM taking minutes, if the Board don't want to do it, they will have to hire someone. The PM is at a Board meeting to give advise and council upon request of the Board. Good PM are just that: Good, and Bad of course are "Bad". A PM should know throughly their responcibility and duties and if asked should tell you they have no vote, they can opine at the Boards request, that's why they are hired. Voting........no way?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Shirley are you a member of the board? It surely sounds like the board doesn't know that the PM cannot be a board members. Check your bylaws to make certain that only members of the assn can hold a board position. However, if they do say otherwise, the PM would have to have been elected by the membership or appointed by the BOD to fill a vacancy. If you bylaws call for a 5-member board and she would make 6, then I doubt that has happened. As Robert says, the PM is only there to give advice and comment on the issues being discussed, if asked.

What was wrong with the Sec's minutes? If the board didn't like how she was taking them they should have asked her to make changes. Some assn's do ask the PM to take the minutes, some assn's contract with a professional to take the minutes (this is what my assn does).

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Shirley - go back into past minutes and see if this person has been voting. Your president should know WHY, if she is. There may be something that gives her a vote. I've heard of stranger things.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Susan,
I suggest that if your documents state the # of votes in the association, and makes no exceptions or distinctions for votes by the Board, then, that's it. I certainly can understand for large condos especially to have specialists on their Board that could well not be members. But again I suggest those are special circumsatance that would have to be included in the documents, and if they were given a vote it would be a special vote and not an owners vote or count equal to an owners vote........IMHO

Of course we all know that our documents can be changed by proper procedures, provided they do not replace any other higher authority.

KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665

Posted:

I would look first and foremost to the covenants and declarations (not the by-laws) and see if they address the Board. Then to the by-laws, there is a very good chance that this person has no business voting. Even if she is allowed to vote, by principal the general membership should have rights in choosing her for that position.

Personally, I don't think that any non-elected person should ever be allowed to vote. The BOD should seek outside advice, but the decision remains in the hands of the elected.

Like Mary, I think this is a case where the BOD for too long has abdicated their responsibility to management and not management believes they are in charge. It might not even be that the management really sought to be in the position, but the Board started counting her vote along the way and nobody has paid attention to the documents in a long time.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Kirk and Mary,
As always, good advice and I wish it were possible to really get into what kind of damage these inherited practices have on the association. Boards leave tracks like rabbit tracks in the snow. Lot of times these tracks lead to the same old bad habits that continue to plague the associations until some "troublemaker" (have you ever noticed the first label curious people acquire in some associations is "troublemaker) starts to question authority decisions.

ShirleyS2 (Florida)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Mary, yes, I am a Board member. I am the Secretary. No one else wanted the job so I was immediately 'selected' to this office. I (and my hubby) have been attending meetings for many months before I was elected to the Board. I have checked the bylaws and know that according to bylaws the PM can not vote. We have a 5 memeber board. There are the 'new' President (never on a board before and does not know the State laws or the bylaws but is trying to learn), a member who has been the Treasurer for 6 years with very vague reports, a man who has been on the BOA for 5 years and is on the major Board and also does not know the laws. Also, a woman who knows the laws and was on the board before and myself. At his point any vote is the 3 men to the 2 women. Regardless. Nothing wrong with my Secretarial minutes. I was camrecording all meetings and 2 of the men felt that if they took the minutes away and gave them to the PM I would no longer need to or want to record. So, they took the minutes and she does them and I check them - always have errors. I make corrections and she takes the credit. That is o.k. I am still the Secretary and responsible to make sure the minutes are correct. BTW, Thanks so much for your help - it has helped me keep sane. Shirley

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Shirley,

One little suggestion regarding the minutes. Instead of correcting them b/4 they're distributed to the BOD, why not correct them at the meeting. After the minutes are read, or the reading thereof is dispensed with, the Pres should ask if there are any corrections. At that time you can speak up and mention anything that needs to be corrected. IMO, this is the procedure that boards should follow.

ShirleyS2 (Florida)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Thank you. I will wait and do exactly that.

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