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Fire Safety

Started by DianaH3 • 16 replies • 2105 views

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DianaH3 (Texas)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Our development is the 4600 acre subdivision in Texas with both ranch land and residential properties. We have an unorganized volunteer fire department with only two men able to operate our ancient truck. We have active fire hydrants, but the first responders with real trucks are 20 miles away.

Do any of you fund a volunteer fire department and if so, how? Do you do it through your HOA dues? We also are located in a Municipal Utility District that provides our water in our sub-division and I have heard that MUD's can assess a monthly fee on their water bill to support a fire department.

Do any of you have any suggestions? We just dodged a bullet today with a grass fire caused by high winds. The winds blew an electric line into the edge of a metal roof on a home and caused a spark which in turn created a grass fire among cedar trees.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Diana,

Wow what a headache this could be. The fire hydrants aren't going to be of any use to fight a fire that might occur on any distant ranchland. My husband (an ex-volunteer fireman and EMT Captain) suggests you need a tanker truck to carry extra water and a small brush truck (easier to get into remote areas) would be a good thing to fight those brush fires. Also the BOD may want to check out the possibility of applying for a State or Fed grant to purchase a newer fire truck. And what about EMT service? Usually volunteer fire depts also have EMT personnel and an ambulance. This is quite a financial burden for the HOA and one that calls for an adequate reserve fund. I hope the members are prepared to pay higher assessments and also volunteer to staff the fire department, otherwise, your fire service is going to be rather slim. Does the Co. fire department provide training for your volunteers? The fireman and EMT personnel of our volunteer fire dept received training from the County F.D.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Personally, I'd rather see the house burn to the ground rather than paying high dues to pay for a fire dept that will just put out the fire and everything will still be destroyed. I've seen houses after a fire. You cant really salvage anything. You cant get the smoke smell out of anything.

Let the fire insurance take care of it. Chances are you will never need it.
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 04/10/2009 2:20 PM
Personally, I'd rather see the house burn to the ground rather than paying high dues to pay for a fire dept that will just put out the fire and everything will still be destroyed. I've seen houses after a fire. You cant really salvage anything. You cant get the smoke smell out of anything.

Let the fire insurance take care of it. Chances are you will never need it.

After being through a house fire of my own, I would have a different opinion on the outcome. We had great success and lived there for 20+ years after.

I guess it is all a mater of degree (pun intended).
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
This is a HUGE responsibility and a HUGE liability to make the HOA responsible for homeowners fire protection. I am surprised insurance companies agree to it, in this day and age.

You need more than "volunteer" firefighters.

Your board needs to have a conference with the local muncipality's fire chief and discuss how fire protection with be provided. You are paying taxes for this service, aren't you?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Steve,

Are we to understand you wouldn't want to pay the higher assessments to ensure the volunter fire dept is properly run? Do you have the same philosophy for rescuing people from the burning home? BTW, why type of ins do you think you'd have w/o a volunteer fire dept?
DianaH3 (Texas)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Nope, we don't pay taxes for fire protection where we live. The nearest fire department in the county is 35 miles away. Everything closer is done by volunteer fire departments funded by boot drives, chili ccok-offs, or flea markets. Very rural area with weekend homeowners coming to the lake from the Cities. Our VFD in our HOA does have an old brush truck, but no pumper.

I will take heed of the advice, though about having the HOA responsible for fire-safety. We are a separate entity from the VFD and you just reminded me of wh we set it up that we. I agree that would raise our insusrance rates out the roof!
DianaH3 (Texas)
Posts: 10
Posted:
We aren't just talking about one house here. The fire we had 4 years ago burned about 1,000 acres in our HOA and took several structures out. We have 300 acre ranches with homes and about 200 homes in our residential area. It is so heavy with brush in the undeveloped properties that the fires spread rapidly - and we are armed with water hoses. Thank heavens for the Forrest Service!
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 04/10/2009 4:58 PM
Steve,
Are we to understand you wouldn't want to pay the higher assessments to ensure the volunter fire dept is properly run? Do you have the same philosophy for rescuing people from the burning home? BTW, why type of ins do you think you'd have w/o a volunteer fire dept?

Correct. Let the town take care of the fire dept. I pay taxes to run the town fire dept, why would I want to pay twice for an HOA one as well as the town? Ehhhh? Think the town would give me a discount if I said we had our own fire dept? No.

If its safe and the firefighter can rescue someone without perishing or injury, I'm for it, if thats what they want to do. I wouldn't "expect" them to save someone.

What type of insurance would I have? Normal insurance like everyone else. Many people dont have a fire station right next door.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Steve,

Guess you didn't read Diana's response in which she said they do NOT pay taxes for fire protection where they live. And, there is NO TOWN, in fact they are about 30 miles from the nearest town. In her last response she clarified the fact that the volunteer fire department is not run by the HOA but it's all they have for fire protection. But, I can't help but think you have a warped view and I'd bet my bottom dollar that your attitude about not expecting a fire fighter to rescue you from your burning home would be different IF it really was YOUR home burning and YOUR family was inside. Give me a break! The job of a firefighter is to not only put out the fire but rescue anyone in the burning building. Who else would you expect to do it??? The same applies to a volunteer fire dept.

As for insurance, w/o a fire dept (volunteer or otherwise) and perhaps no hydrants, IMO, you'd have a hard time getting fire insurance of if you did find some the rates would be sky high. True, many people don't have a fire station next door, but they do have a fire dept charged with the resp. of protecting their property and there is a fire hydrant in close proximity to their home.

I know it's probably hard for someone to understand the position Diane is in if you've always lived in a city and never had to worry about fire protection. Many years ago I lived in a rural area of N. Va and we have a volunteer fire department. My husband was a volunteer and became the EMT Captain. They received some funding from the County but relied mostly on donations and fund drives. Never once did I think I shouldn't contribute to the volunteer fire dept because I was paying taxes to the county. Sure the county F.D. would come and help if needed, but when the alarm went out the volunteer fire dept was the first response not the Co. F.D.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Of course she pays taxes for fire protection. She pays property tax to someone. You cant choose where your individual tax money is spent. She also mentioned the first responders with real trucks are 20 miles away. Where do you think they got the funding? Taxes of course.

I lived in rural a rural part of the state once with fire dept run by the county. They must have been at least 40 min away. My insurance was cheap, included fire. We didn't have hydrants, we were all on wells.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Steve,

Are you calling Diana a liar? How do you know she pays taxes for fire protection? Sure, she most likely pays property taxes but you don't know what taxing authorities are listed on the bill. My property tax bill has a line item for "fire district assistance tax"; if there was no fire dept servicing my area that line item would not be there, ergo I would not be paying prop. taxes for fire protection. BTW, I do not live in a rural area, I live w/i the city limits.

Regarding where you used to live and your insurance. Apparently your home was part of the area serviced by the co. fire department and you had ample water right on your own property. Comparing this to Diana's situation is like comparing apples to oranges.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Mary there is no need to be so aggressive. You obviously live in a district that has Primary taxes and Secondary taxes. So you pay the primary taxes and some of that money goes to fire budget. You also pay the Secondary taxes, and it helps supplement the fire dept. in your particular area.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
As to where I used to live and the ample water. I guess I had ample water, but how would they get to it? My little well pump only goes so fast. Enough to power a garden hose.

The way insurance works is, everyone pays in, not everyone has a fire. The number of fires is less than the number of people who pay in and have no fire ever and the insurance company profits. It really doesn't have much to do with the fire dept. Most buildings after a fires are a total loss anyway, and the insurance company has to pay out.
DianaH3 (Texas)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Sorry I raised such a "fire storm". I looked at my tax bill again and we pay taxes to the county, to two school districts, to the hospital district and to our municipal utility district. Now, the county may very well allocate something to a fire department, but it isn't listed on the tax bill. I don't know how they would choose which department to give money to since there are at least 5 small comunities that have VFD's and they don't receive tax money.

I think we will just continue with our "Chili cook-offs" and our boot drives and keep begging for donations for our volunteers and maybe one of these days we can get a shiny new truck equipped with fire suits and breathing apparatus like the big boys have. Hopefully if my house is on fire they will see fit to rescue me before they let my house burn down to the ground.

I appreciate all the answers and recommendations.

Ya'll have a good day, now.

MikeF4 (Texas)
Posts: 26
Posted:
You should see about setting up an ESD (Emergency Services District) that can levy taxes for the purpose of funding emergency services.

Perhaps a push to get more than just the 2 volunteers could help too. If you only have 2, 1 brush truck is all you need because its all you can man. =)

http://www.orca.state.tx.us/index.php/Home/ESD+Information
www.silveradohoa.com
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Diana,

Such is the state of areas with volunteer fire depts. I lived in such an area in a rural part of Fairfax, Co, VA. My husband was a member of the volunteer F.D. and also the EMT Captain. Fundraisers are the norm. The Co. offered training for the firemen and the EMT personnel. Perhaps you can get some funding from them for equipment. The volunteer F.D. should have an agreement with neighboring fire dept's to assist on a call when needed.

As for taxes, I doubt you're being taxed for fire services by the Co if they are not providing that service. But, a call to the Co. could answer that question!

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