HOA Document Archives

Started by TomE3 • 12 replies • 1628 views

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TomE3 (Arizona)
Posts: 1

Posted:

We have started using {Name removed due to HOATalk posting rules} to archive our association's documents. The service is wonderful! However, I'm wondering what documents most of your homeowners request from you - architectural applications, bylaws, etc. Thanks. Tom

DianaH3 (Texas)
Posts: 10

Posted:

We are looking for online storage ourselves. Most of our homeowners request ACC building permits or Pavilion rental forms. Our properties are 100% sold out, but some are bought and sold quite often, so we also have to keep up with sales and purchase transactions.

Our biggest storage problem would be the ACC documents. We require the HO to submit a plat of their property along with any building plans and we keep those plats on file as well as the Architects drawings. Storing those becomes cumbersome!

RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160

Posted:

I sure hope you are using such a service as an archive and not the primary location of documents. Also, I hope the cost is not high as the service doesn't provide much other than providing a computer resource.

Looking at the website you gave, I see that all of the documents are open to the public. IMHO all documents are not public and some should be restricted to homeowners only. May HOA websites providers do the same thing with more bells and whistles geared to HOAs. They may not have exactly the same service for the personal handling of documents.

Just be sure you are putting your documents where they can be trusted to be there when you need them.

JohnM3 (Florida)
Posts: 288

Posted:

On our association web site we have free access to our docs and a whole host of other forms. My problem is we have accumulated 21 file boxes of records and docs that are now costing me $1 a box a month. I would love to find out if Florida law allows my HOA to just scan the docs into a computer external hard drive and attach it to my management companies server so we have 24-7 access to every document. My question is that legal in Florida

Thanks for any help please

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

As someone who has worked in the computer industry for a long time, I would suggest not getting rid of your paper documents, especially not for a web-based archival service. There have been too many instances of these types of services suddenly shutting down and people losing their photos, documents, etc. Even keeping your documents on your local system isn't necessarily a good idea. Disk drives go bad, and media types change: floppies were replaced by zip drives, which gave way to CD, which is being replace by DVD. Unless you are willing to either keep an old system around forever or periodically copy your files to new media, you will eventually find that the file you need is on an old media that you can't read any more.

Paper may be bulky, but it is more reliable than computer files. We can still read documents from hundreds of years ago with no additional equipment (except maybe a pair of glasses).

DianaH3 (Texas)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Sorry, I am new to this - what does IMHO mean??

hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603

Posted:

Tom is clearly from the company he named, based on the email we have on file for him. His post is an ad disguised as a Board member post which is not appreciated on this site.

He has been contacted and the company name removed from the post above.

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RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DianaH3 on 04/10/2009 6:19 AM
Sorry, I am new to this - what does IMHO mean??

In my humble opinion

JohnM3 (Florida)
Posts: 288

Posted:

Finally got word from the 3 different Lawyers computer files are legal in Florida period. Robert G12 sir do you realize what you are suggesting? Our MC charges us $1 a file box a month so far in our 21 years of life we have accumulated 21 boxes and after this year it is 22 they charge us $1 a box a month that's $252 dollars this year and it will never go down only up. Imagine what it will be like in 5 years from now?

I was thinking about a service that takes the docs scans them into files and loads them into a external hard drive with 2 copies 1 to the MC and 1 to the Secretary to maintain and add docs each month..................Look at the cost versus the stories of what people dream up to scare people...

That way its accessible to the BOD at any time and at the MC level also.

You folks are not going to sit there and tell me that lawyers save every piece of paper they generate? Puleese lets say a firm with 25 lawyers working 5 days a week they must use 200 trees a month and you really believe they are going to store all that paper???????????????? Happy Easter to you all...........

RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160

Posted:

First, $252 doesn't sound like much to me. However, are you sure you need 22 years worth of documents? I would agree some need to be kept forever, but not all. That is something someone with more legal/tax knowledge would know. I also don't know what a full service would charge, but that it would cost more than $252/year. Even one of the cheapest Internet servers with no service for document management is about $50/year. I don't see how anyone would scan a box of documents for $1. Also there are incidental costs like who takes the documents to get scanned or picked up.

Sure you might get a good price. I am not saying you should not save documents electronically, I am just saying do some shopping to get the best deal for what you really need.

Law firms spend lots of dollars on document retention. It is a big business and securing the documents from loss is a huge issue. Also, I bet many lawyers will tell you to get rid of documents as soon as you can, less to discover when someone comes after you.

I rambled a bit, but just be sure you are getting what you think.

AnneH2 (Florida)
Posts: 82

Posted:

Ch 720 outlines what must be kept and for how long. Most HOAs seem to keep too much. My HOA has crap dating back years that is not needed.

Not sure why you are paying for the storage personally. It should be an association expense.

Documents must be maintained in written form or in another form that can be converted into written form within a reasonable time. I'd scan to disk and make a copy so the PM and the board each have one.

hoatalk (California)
Posts: 603

Posted:

If I recall correctly, local copy shops charge around $2/page for scanning (with no manual categorization).

This can be a labor intensive operation, especially since you will need manual categorization in addition to scanning (OCR is not enough). Also the person scanning for you must handle paper clips, staples, odd shaped documents, folded documents, envelopes, etc. Inexpensive secretarial services cost $30/hour or more so that could be a cheaper way to go.

However, I would consider the following as well:
(1) Who holds the records? Board members and PMs change all the time so having your official records at either of these locations presents a risk to the Association. We have heard many times of PMs that close shop or get fired and records are not properly handed back to the Association.
SUGGESTION: Have the records held by a trusted records storage company with a long track record (whether in paper or digital form), not at a Board member's house or PM's office.

(2) Cost: Proper scanning, categorization and long-term storage is not cheap but it may just be an expense the Association must bear.

(3) Legal requirements: Some records like IRS tax records must be kept for x years (normally 3-7 depending on the type/situation...see your CPA). It's also good to destroy certain records on a schedule as well.

The problem most HOAs/Condo Boards face is there is no permanent physical place of business for the HOA/Condo to store records (since Board members and PMs change). This makes long term record storage an issue.

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JohnM3 (Florida)
Posts: 288

Posted:

Many thanks but we have had the same board for the past 5-21 years. The same MC for the past 18 years with the same PM for the past 18 years so that problem is not in our area of discussion. The HOA pays the storage fees and we do have a clubhouse and a area we are making to be a storage area that used to be a closet in our Main Pool Mens Room.

What I was looking for was a simple answer not a check this to that folks I have been on this Board since the change over from the developer 21 years ago and built 2 parking lots, a club house et all with our own security force, built a garage for our golf cart, built a building for our security folks with a community knowledgeable telephone number. Our own web site,been audited 16 times with no defects by American Express Auditors, with 17 empty houses we still match what we pay each month with what comes in to the treasury so you might be safe in saying we do know what we are doing . Its just from time to time we hit areas none of us have knowledge in (5 member board ) What ever system we decide to use you can bet we will do a mountain of research on...............Thanks for your nice words of support................

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