GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Is it a conflict of interest if a PM who is also a Home Owner to be compensated for attending meetings of the Board and Committees?
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Conflict of intesrest?
Started by GraceH • 37 replies • 2530 views
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MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
It depends.
If she has a contract that says she gets paid for that, then it's part of the contract. Even then, not necessarily a conflict of interest.
If she's just doing it on her own and then billing, then it needs to be codified or formalized and approved by the board in some way.
Is she also a member of the board?
If she has a contract that says she gets paid for that, then it's part of the contract. Even then, not necessarily a conflict of interest.
If she's just doing it on her own and then billing, then it needs to be codified or formalized and approved by the board in some way.
Is she also a member of the board?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
If the PM contract with the HOA states that she must attend meetings, then that IS her job.
But . . . How do you know she is billing for these specific meetings? Does she present an itemized invoice that shows this time billed?
But . . . How do you know she is billing for these specific meetings? Does she present an itemized invoice that shows this time billed?
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Michele, Thank you for responding.
It is not listed in the compensation section of the contract, however it is listed in the job description. I also have questions as to why compensation would be in the job description instead of where compensation is clearly stated.
No, she is not a member of the board
Susan,
Thank you also for responding.
We have no idea what she is billing the association. She avoids questions, writes and signs her own pay checks.
It is not listed in the compensation section of the contract, however it is listed in the job description. I also have questions as to why compensation would be in the job description instead of where compensation is clearly stated.
No, she is not a member of the board
Susan,
Thank you also for responding.
We have no idea what she is billing the association. She avoids questions, writes and signs her own pay checks.
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posts: 160
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GraceH on 04/07/2009 3:42 PM
We have no idea what she is billing the association. She avoids questions, writes and signs her own pay checks.
We have no idea what she is billing the association. She avoids questions, writes and signs her own pay checks.
My first suggestion is you get another (at least one board member) to be a required signer on any HOA check.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
But she must have a contract that states a certain pay.
Get out the paperwork and have the president or treasurer do a sit down with her to confirm her duties. In no way should she be making out her own paycheck AND signing it!
Get out the paperwork and have the president or treasurer do a sit down with her to confirm her duties. In no way should she be making out her own paycheck AND signing it!
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Robert,
Thank you for responding.
It is in our Bylaws- for 2 signatures, however it has not been followed. We have had a very complacent board- to say the least.
Thank you for responding.
It is in our Bylaws- for 2 signatures, however it has not been followed. We have had a very complacent board- to say the least.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Susan,
Thank you,
We have a board member who has been requesting documents and has been ignored as of yet.
I agree that she should not be writing and signing her own check.
Thank you,
We have a board member who has been requesting documents and has been ignored as of yet.
I agree that she should not be writing and signing her own check.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Her contract does not have her pay rate, on an increase rate. Nowhere in her contract does it give a dollar amount for anything, only % of other compensation such as 15% of insurance claims, the fees for resale documents are split evenly between the association and her which again are listed in the job description, not the employment agreement.
RobertG12 (Arizona)
Posts: 160
Posts: 160
Posted:
I am not sure if this will work, but tell your bank that 2 signatures are required and don't pay any of her checks that just have 1.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Robert, what makes it hard is that she is the only one to have contact with the banks, insurance companies, Attorney - everything. The Board members do not even have key access to the association office, only the PM and her daughter do. We are hoping to achieve board removal soon and then the new board members can change these issues.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
This just gets more and more ugly as you speak!
Wow.
If she is NOT a board member, then she needs to be reined in.
It's not going to be easy, I fear.
Wow.
If she is NOT a board member, then she needs to be reined in.
It's not going to be easy, I fear.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
You are right Michele, it is not going to be easy.
The more we look at, the more we sit back and ask - can this really have been going on like this?
In bits and pieces through other threads I have posted on here, you can see some of what has been going on, however it does not touch the surface.
The more we look at, the more we sit back and ask - can this really have been going on like this?
In bits and pieces through other threads I have posted on here, you can see some of what has been going on, however it does not touch the surface.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Grace,
I sure hope you're keeping track of all these things the board members are allowing the PM to do and get away with. Number 1 is only allowing her access to the bank accounts and only her signature goes on the check. Incidentally, Robert mentioned informing the bank that 2 signature are required otherwise the check should not be cashed. I can tell you that will not work. The banks are only concerned with having 1 signature on a check and that must be of a registered signatory. They do not care what your requirements are! At least that's what I've heard from many who've tried this.
When do you think you and your group of supporters will be ready to launch the recall? IMO, the sooner the better. Continuing to allow this mismanagement is certainly not a good thing for the assn.
As for conflict of interest, that,IMO, is a hard callto make. It all depends upon what the board knew b/4 they hired her and what your state nonprofit corp statutes have to say. I doubt you'll find anything in your gov. docs. or in state HOA statutes, but of course you should check it out. If the board knew she was a h/o b/4 she was hired as the PM and they did not have a problem with that, then there is not a conflict of interest. Of course, knowing how your BOD operates, I'm sure they didn't vote on it, but that aspect of conflict of interest would be hard to prove in court. There might be something else in your state statutes.
I sure hope you're keeping track of all these things the board members are allowing the PM to do and get away with. Number 1 is only allowing her access to the bank accounts and only her signature goes on the check. Incidentally, Robert mentioned informing the bank that 2 signature are required otherwise the check should not be cashed. I can tell you that will not work. The banks are only concerned with having 1 signature on a check and that must be of a registered signatory. They do not care what your requirements are! At least that's what I've heard from many who've tried this.
When do you think you and your group of supporters will be ready to launch the recall? IMO, the sooner the better. Continuing to allow this mismanagement is certainly not a good thing for the assn.
As for conflict of interest, that,IMO, is a hard callto make. It all depends upon what the board knew b/4 they hired her and what your state nonprofit corp statutes have to say. I doubt you'll find anything in your gov. docs. or in state HOA statutes, but of course you should check it out. If the board knew she was a h/o b/4 she was hired as the PM and they did not have a problem with that, then there is not a conflict of interest. Of course, knowing how your BOD operates, I'm sure they didn't vote on it, but that aspect of conflict of interest would be hard to prove in court. There might be something else in your state statutes.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Mary,
I agree, the banks are not looking at signatures especially when this has been the norm for so long. Apparently she has permission to sign the Board Pres. name as long as she initials it.
Yes, some of us have been keeping track, and others are getting impatient. We have tried to explain that we as Home Owners cannot undo what the board has done, only a new board can.
I do not know when we will be ready, however the longer it takes, I am worried that the more things will be covered up. I really do believe that the PM would destroy documents before allowing all to know what is going on.
Sometimes I wonder if I am just grasping at straws, however there are just too many to pass up.
I agree, the banks are not looking at signatures especially when this has been the norm for so long. Apparently she has permission to sign the Board Pres. name as long as she initials it.
Yes, some of us have been keeping track, and others are getting impatient. We have tried to explain that we as Home Owners cannot undo what the board has done, only a new board can.
I do not know when we will be ready, however the longer it takes, I am worried that the more things will be covered up. I really do believe that the PM would destroy documents before allowing all to know what is going on.
Sometimes I wonder if I am just grasping at straws, however there are just too many to pass up.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
You board needs to establish a Finance Committee of 3 - Treasurer, one board member, one general member - and have a meeting with this PM to go over procedures and the requirements of her reports to the board at meetings.
The board can pass any NEW procedures it wants, in terms of how bills are paid, including writing checks.
The tail is wagging the dog here. The PM works for the Board!! Why is everyone so scared of this PM?
If the ENTIRE board is not upset with this, then your concerns will not be heard.
The board can pass any NEW procedures it wants, in terms of how bills are paid, including writing checks.
The tail is wagging the dog here. The PM works for the Board!! Why is everyone so scared of this PM?
If the ENTIRE board is not upset with this, then your concerns will not be heard.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
I have suggested that we need a financial review committee, the PM was not too pleased with that. The Board Pres. seamed open to it, however, I do not know if it will be done.
I honestly do not know when the fear set in.
I have been there almost 5 years and from the time I moved in, have heard that if you disagree with the PM, she will make your life Hell. I have witnessed Home Owners being issued violation notices for architectural violations such as a small fish pond that in the past they had offered to buy fish for. Mind you, I was on the ARC Committee at the time and we were not doing inspections but because that Home Owner was asking questions about the finances, he was given a taste of what could follow if he pursues it further. I do understand that a violation is a violation however how can they not tell you that it is a violation when they offered to buy fish for it?
I myself have experienced the change in the PM attitude when I started to question also. In the past, I was able to ask for documents with no questions, now I am asked why I want the information, I have been told to put my requests in witting and now am charged an administrative fee plus a per page copy charge.
It does go further, but I just don't want to seam like I am nit picking. But to me what someone considers nit picking, I consider little pieces to the puzzle.
One of the documents I requested was the addresses of the Home Owners, so that I can contact the absentee owners for the Residents meetings and that it was not for monetary gain, The PM responded that we will watch that closely.
No, the entire board is not upset, most are just there for social interaction.
I honestly do not know when the fear set in.
I have been there almost 5 years and from the time I moved in, have heard that if you disagree with the PM, she will make your life Hell. I have witnessed Home Owners being issued violation notices for architectural violations such as a small fish pond that in the past they had offered to buy fish for. Mind you, I was on the ARC Committee at the time and we were not doing inspections but because that Home Owner was asking questions about the finances, he was given a taste of what could follow if he pursues it further. I do understand that a violation is a violation however how can they not tell you that it is a violation when they offered to buy fish for it?
I myself have experienced the change in the PM attitude when I started to question also. In the past, I was able to ask for documents with no questions, now I am asked why I want the information, I have been told to put my requests in witting and now am charged an administrative fee plus a per page copy charge.
It does go further, but I just don't want to seam like I am nit picking. But to me what someone considers nit picking, I consider little pieces to the puzzle.
One of the documents I requested was the addresses of the Home Owners, so that I can contact the absentee owners for the Residents meetings and that it was not for monetary gain, The PM responded that we will watch that closely.
No, the entire board is not upset, most are just there for social interaction.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Grace,
I was checking out the VA Property Owners Assn Act to see if there was an article on recalls; but there is not. So you will have to go by what your bylaws say. But, I certainly would jump on that post haste!!!
I found this article that might be of interest to you:
§ 55-510.2. Distribution of information by members.
The board of directors shall establish a reasonable, effective, and free method, appropriate to the size and nature of the association, for lot owners to communicate among themselves and with the board of directors regarding any matter concerning the association.
Give this to your PM the next time you want a list of property owners and their addresses! Note "free method"!!
I was checking out the VA Property Owners Assn Act to see if there was an article on recalls; but there is not. So you will have to go by what your bylaws say. But, I certainly would jump on that post haste!!!
I found this article that might be of interest to you:
§ 55-510.2. Distribution of information by members.
The board of directors shall establish a reasonable, effective, and free method, appropriate to the size and nature of the association, for lot owners to communicate among themselves and with the board of directors regarding any matter concerning the association.
Give this to your PM the next time you want a list of property owners and their addresses! Note "free method"!!
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Mary,
Thank you so much, I have read that many times and have never connected that to the request.
Thank you so much, I have read that many times and have never connected that to the request.
KariL (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posts: 7
Posted:
Mary,
If I may add to Graces's response. I do recall Grace bringing up the article you mentioned concerning the free means of communication. It was around August of last year (08). It was suggested to the board by one of the attendees that we have a website for our Association. The PM's reply (not the board) was that we did not have the funding for a website. At that point, another of the attendees at the meeting asked if they could create a blog so that we all communicate and voice concerns. The PM said she did not have a problem with that. Well, once the blog came out, it was something else!! We never knew there were so many angry residents in our community. It wasn't too much after that that the creator of the blog received a letter from the Association lawyer requesting he take the blog down. Apparently, she couldn't handle the things that were being said about her! Miraculously, we were informed at the next meeting that the board had decided to invest in a website for our Association.....hmmm it's funny how that worked out. BTW, the creator of the blog informed the PM of his right to free speech and has not taken down the blog. It has been very useful for general questions and to inform our neighbors of our upcoming "Residents Meetings".
If I may add to Graces's response. I do recall Grace bringing up the article you mentioned concerning the free means of communication. It was around August of last year (08). It was suggested to the board by one of the attendees that we have a website for our Association. The PM's reply (not the board) was that we did not have the funding for a website. At that point, another of the attendees at the meeting asked if they could create a blog so that we all communicate and voice concerns. The PM said she did not have a problem with that. Well, once the blog came out, it was something else!! We never knew there were so many angry residents in our community. It wasn't too much after that that the creator of the blog received a letter from the Association lawyer requesting he take the blog down. Apparently, she couldn't handle the things that were being said about her! Miraculously, we were informed at the next meeting that the board had decided to invest in a website for our Association.....hmmm it's funny how that worked out. BTW, the creator of the blog informed the PM of his right to free speech and has not taken down the blog. It has been very useful for general questions and to inform our neighbors of our upcoming "Residents Meetings".
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Kari,
I'm glad to hear your member-blogger did not take down his website! The assn has no right to require this of anyone. However, I do think the posters should be careful not to be saying anything about the BOD that they cannot prove. The assn lawyer can send a letter to anyone who is spreading lies about the actions of the board stating legal action can be taken against them.
Hope your resident's meeting goes well. Is this a meeting being organized by Grace and her gang or are you referring to the annual members' meeting?
I'm glad to hear your member-blogger did not take down his website! The assn has no right to require this of anyone. However, I do think the posters should be careful not to be saying anything about the BOD that they cannot prove. The assn lawyer can send a letter to anyone who is spreading lies about the actions of the board stating legal action can be taken against them.
Hope your resident's meeting goes well. Is this a meeting being organized by Grace and her gang or are you referring to the annual members' meeting?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Grace and supporters in he HOA,
Keep your head down, stay cool, don't rush, be smart, build more support be as open as possible, hold open meetings call by you all.
And keep digging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All you hope to accomplish can be done, has been done and nothing illegal about any of it.
Keep together and informed, you will form some wonderful friends during all this. A couple won't end up friends but that is their loss.
Keep your head down, stay cool, don't rush, be smart, build more support be as open as possible, hold open meetings call by you all.
And keep digging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All you hope to accomplish can be done, has been done and nothing illegal about any of it.
Keep together and informed, you will form some wonderful friends during all this. A couple won't end up friends but that is their loss.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
I would also suggest recording all your actions in a file, as well as keep all communications with everyone, and if by mail, keep all letters, envelopes, etc...
If what is said that this person can make you're life hell, I would suggest preparing for the worst and hope for the best. Stay in compliance with all rules and regulations, and keep a courteous and professional attitude... any slip ups on their part would definitely aid in setting everything straight when the time comes...
If what is said that this person can make you're life hell, I would suggest preparing for the worst and hope for the best. Stay in compliance with all rules and regulations, and keep a courteous and professional attitude... any slip ups on their part would definitely aid in setting everything straight when the time comes...
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Karil,
Your comments are welcome Karil,
I am concluding you are in the endeavor with Grace. I hope you have a number more on your team. KISS (Keep it smart and simple) I just made that up, in part. It will get complicated by the nature of the beast.
Keep an eye on Virginia Statutes as if I recall they are not of the garden variety. Keep good records, have articulate spokepeople and involve each of your members and deputize them all to bring in new support. If you stay open a upfront your adversary will know what you are doing, and that's just fine. If at sometime your group develops cracks, think about getting a name and writting a Mission statement, of course guess who will read this, Great! If this PM and Board won't communicate with you, you have the best of both worlds, you can say what you want at open meetings and on your blog and continue your goal without having to answer a bunch of stuff, but you can bet your Bippy they are reading what you put out. Having said that, maybe once a week offer the Olive Branch and offer to meet and discuss anything with the PM and Board. Don't let them bully you and don't listen to a bunch of nonsense, record any meetings.
In another thread or maybe this one, I remember two pharses. 1)look for the funny money 2)The closer you get to the truth the messier it becomes. In my obserservation both are true. You all are not Babes in the woods, you are not trying to do something that can't be done, or should not be done, nor are you going to kill the enemy on the battlefield. You just want to be in the battle and shoot your own gun, you are not going to stand for someone else to lead you to the poor house or the looney bin or both.
Your comments are welcome Karil,
I am concluding you are in the endeavor with Grace. I hope you have a number more on your team. KISS (Keep it smart and simple) I just made that up, in part. It will get complicated by the nature of the beast.
Keep an eye on Virginia Statutes as if I recall they are not of the garden variety. Keep good records, have articulate spokepeople and involve each of your members and deputize them all to bring in new support. If you stay open a upfront your adversary will know what you are doing, and that's just fine. If at sometime your group develops cracks, think about getting a name and writting a Mission statement, of course guess who will read this, Great! If this PM and Board won't communicate with you, you have the best of both worlds, you can say what you want at open meetings and on your blog and continue your goal without having to answer a bunch of stuff, but you can bet your Bippy they are reading what you put out. Having said that, maybe once a week offer the Olive Branch and offer to meet and discuss anything with the PM and Board. Don't let them bully you and don't listen to a bunch of nonsense, record any meetings.
In another thread or maybe this one, I remember two pharses. 1)look for the funny money 2)The closer you get to the truth the messier it becomes. In my obserservation both are true. You all are not Babes in the woods, you are not trying to do something that can't be done, or should not be done, nor are you going to kill the enemy on the battlefield. You just want to be in the battle and shoot your own gun, you are not going to stand for someone else to lead you to the poor house or the looney bin or both.
KariL (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posts: 7
Posted:
Mary,
Thanks for your advice as far as the blog is concerned. It seems that everyone that's posted understands that anyone can read that blog and they keep any specific finger-pointing to a minimum. There are also a few who refuse to create a "screen name" and always post as "annonymous".
Our Residents Meetings were started late last year by Grace and her gang, which I am one. The numbers have been gaining at almost every meeting. We have learned a lot about Associations and how they're supposed to be run, but I feel we still have a lot to learn. This forum has been a tremendous help. Our presence at the Board meetings has been consistent, and the questions we ask have prompted the Board to take notice and vote on a few changes so far. We have such a long way to go.
Robert,
We have been listening to your advice and have been doing exactly what you've suggested. We've had experiences in the past where the PM would act out when she felt cornered, so we are being extremely careful. Thanks for your input as well.
Kevin,
Yes, we are keeping track of everything we possibly can, thanks. We have also stopped asking the PM questions in private (one on one) because she always turns around at the meeting and says she never made such a statment. We now only ask questions while at the board meetings, in writing, or at a meeting with witnesses in attendance. I also stated to Grace that since we are asking questions in front of witnesses and the board, she may not retaliate as she did in the past because it would be brought to the attention of the board and other attendees at the meetings. I guess only time will tell.
We have come to realize through experience with this PM that she cannot be trusted with anything she says, so why should we trust she's on the up and up with the money, right?
We had a very productive Condo meeting last night. We learned that there are two open seats, and possibly a third may open up. It appears some board members are feeling the pressure and getting out now. All the better for the community I say!!
Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to help out Grace and our cause. Grace has been an angel to all of us.
Thanks for your advice as far as the blog is concerned. It seems that everyone that's posted understands that anyone can read that blog and they keep any specific finger-pointing to a minimum. There are also a few who refuse to create a "screen name" and always post as "annonymous".
Our Residents Meetings were started late last year by Grace and her gang, which I am one. The numbers have been gaining at almost every meeting. We have learned a lot about Associations and how they're supposed to be run, but I feel we still have a lot to learn. This forum has been a tremendous help. Our presence at the Board meetings has been consistent, and the questions we ask have prompted the Board to take notice and vote on a few changes so far. We have such a long way to go.
Robert,
We have been listening to your advice and have been doing exactly what you've suggested. We've had experiences in the past where the PM would act out when she felt cornered, so we are being extremely careful. Thanks for your input as well.
Kevin,
Yes, we are keeping track of everything we possibly can, thanks. We have also stopped asking the PM questions in private (one on one) because she always turns around at the meeting and says she never made such a statment. We now only ask questions while at the board meetings, in writing, or at a meeting with witnesses in attendance. I also stated to Grace that since we are asking questions in front of witnesses and the board, she may not retaliate as she did in the past because it would be brought to the attention of the board and other attendees at the meetings. I guess only time will tell.
We have come to realize through experience with this PM that she cannot be trusted with anything she says, so why should we trust she's on the up and up with the money, right?
We had a very productive Condo meeting last night. We learned that there are two open seats, and possibly a third may open up. It appears some board members are feeling the pressure and getting out now. All the better for the community I say!!
Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to help out Grace and our cause. Grace has been an angel to all of us.
KariL (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posts: 7
Posted:
Robert,
I always thought KISS meant "Keep it simple stupid"! Or at least that's what I was told by an ex-marine! (smile). Seriously though, I wanted to thank you again for your advice and to tell you what we already have set up as far as conflict resolution goes. During one of our board meetings it was decided that if an association member wanted to meet with the PM a meeting could be set up where there would be a rep from both the Condo and Home Owners boards plus a mediator. So far this has been productive to a point. The PM is still very evasive with most of her responses, and conviently forgets issues that were brought up at previous board meetings even though the meeting notes reflect those issues. Oh, and we know they know what we're up to. She sends HOA board members to our residents meetings to report back to her, and they're constantly reading the blog. We're being very careful with our actions.
Thanks again Robert
I always thought KISS meant "Keep it simple stupid"! Or at least that's what I was told by an ex-marine! (smile). Seriously though, I wanted to thank you again for your advice and to tell you what we already have set up as far as conflict resolution goes. During one of our board meetings it was decided that if an association member wanted to meet with the PM a meeting could be set up where there would be a rep from both the Condo and Home Owners boards plus a mediator. So far this has been productive to a point. The PM is still very evasive with most of her responses, and conviently forgets issues that were brought up at previous board meetings even though the meeting notes reflect those issues. Oh, and we know they know what we're up to. She sends HOA board members to our residents meetings to report back to her, and they're constantly reading the blog. We're being very careful with our actions.
Thanks again Robert
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Karil,
Explain to me again who pays this PM? This woman is bigger than life or at least thinks she is. Every dog has his day.
You are probably right about the cracks starting to show with the Board vacancies..............typical at this stage. How about the president of this outfit, he is never mentioned, but I can imagine.
Also, another question, do you or yours ever get any sense that these adversaries are reading these posts. They are, of course welcome, as this is an open site.
Explain to me again who pays this PM? This woman is bigger than life or at least thinks she is. Every dog has his day.
You are probably right about the cracks starting to show with the Board vacancies..............typical at this stage. How about the president of this outfit, he is never mentioned, but I can imagine.
Also, another question, do you or yours ever get any sense that these adversaries are reading these posts. They are, of course welcome, as this is an open site.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Robert,
At our Condo board meeting last night, the Pres. had enough when asked questions regarding the PMs contract. Several items listed under job description instead of employment agreement. Heck, he was not even aware that they just signed the PMs new contract. He actually asked when was the last contract renewed. When we said that you just voted on it the other month, he got up and as he made his way to the door, he said that we will have his resignation. The Board member that is the V.P. took over and did a wonderful job. (He is new to the board and had not attended the meetings before his election.)
At one point, the PM told one home owner that he was out of order on that he needs to leave. We stated that the Condominium Act says that he is entitled to be here, so the P.M got up, closed her book and said then we will leave. The V.P. said "It is 7:05 and we have some agenda items to go over" For what was probably the first time in her rein, the PM sat down and realized she was an employee. Major step! Major!!!
At our Condo board meeting last night, the Pres. had enough when asked questions regarding the PMs contract. Several items listed under job description instead of employment agreement. Heck, he was not even aware that they just signed the PMs new contract. He actually asked when was the last contract renewed. When we said that you just voted on it the other month, he got up and as he made his way to the door, he said that we will have his resignation. The Board member that is the V.P. took over and did a wonderful job. (He is new to the board and had not attended the meetings before his election.)
At one point, the PM told one home owner that he was out of order on that he needs to leave. We stated that the Condominium Act says that he is entitled to be here, so the P.M got up, closed her book and said then we will leave. The V.P. said "It is 7:05 and we have some agenda items to go over" For what was probably the first time in her rein, the PM sat down and realized she was an employee. Major step! Major!!!
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
This is so interesting watching this unfold!
Keep up the good fight!
Keep up the good fight!
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Michele,
Thank you and everyone who has given advise, support and encouragement.
Thank you and everyone who has given advise, support and encouragement.
KariL (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posts: 7
Posted:
Robert,
You're right the PM thinks she is larger than life. She has been a contracted employee for well over 18 years and has slowly taken the reigns from each of the boards (Condo & HOA). Our group has been key to having the reingns returned to the board. In fact at one meeting a resident asked a question to the board, and when the PM started to answer, he said that he was asking the board and not her.
As far as cracks in the board, I agree. It appears there are some board members who are not strong enough to endure the questions that are put before them in the meetings and have decided to step down. We're hoping a few more will follow suit. The President of the Condo Association said last night that he would submit his resignation because he was frustrated and, I believe enbarassed, due to his ignorance regarding his position. We'll see if he submits his resignation or not. In the February meeting he threatened to quit as well. The President of the HOA board appears to be listening to a point but he's real hard to read and not sure if he's an asset at this point or not. We do have a few new board members on each board that are speaking out for the community, so that is always a good thing. We'll get there.
As far as them reading this, yes, they might be. We know they're reading our blog so anything is possible.
You're right the PM thinks she is larger than life. She has been a contracted employee for well over 18 years and has slowly taken the reigns from each of the boards (Condo & HOA). Our group has been key to having the reingns returned to the board. In fact at one meeting a resident asked a question to the board, and when the PM started to answer, he said that he was asking the board and not her.
As far as cracks in the board, I agree. It appears there are some board members who are not strong enough to endure the questions that are put before them in the meetings and have decided to step down. We're hoping a few more will follow suit. The President of the Condo Association said last night that he would submit his resignation because he was frustrated and, I believe enbarassed, due to his ignorance regarding his position. We'll see if he submits his resignation or not. In the February meeting he threatened to quit as well. The President of the HOA board appears to be listening to a point but he's real hard to read and not sure if he's an asset at this point or not. We do have a few new board members on each board that are speaking out for the community, so that is always a good thing. We'll get there.
As far as them reading this, yes, they might be. We know they're reading our blog so anything is possible.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Kari,
I'm a bit confused as to why the PM should be meeting with a member for conflict resolution. This is another example of the PM having too much power and acting as though she is a board member instead of an employee of the BOD. If there is any conflict to be resolved it should be between the BOD and the member! Another example of her "power" is that she sends board meetings to your residents meetings to report back to her. Say what????
I'm a bit confused as to why the PM should be meeting with a member for conflict resolution. This is another example of the PM having too much power and acting as though she is a board member instead of an employee of the BOD. If there is any conflict to be resolved it should be between the BOD and the member! Another example of her "power" is that she sends board meetings to your residents meetings to report back to her. Say what????
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Kari,
Perhaps you'll get lucky and all the board members you want to recall will step down and save you the trouble. You Pres reminds me of the Pres of my former assn. After a board meeting I asked him why he was always so defensive when I asked a question and his answer was, "I guess it's because I don't know the answer!" Well, duh? Why don't you do something to find out the answers instead of sitting on your arse, chest puffed out, acting like king of the hill? For some board members it's just a big ego trip, I'm afraid.
Perhaps you'll get lucky and all the board members you want to recall will step down and save you the trouble. You Pres reminds me of the Pres of my former assn. After a board meeting I asked him why he was always so defensive when I asked a question and his answer was, "I guess it's because I don't know the answer!" Well, duh? Why don't you do something to find out the answers instead of sitting on your arse, chest puffed out, acting like king of the hill? For some board members it's just a big ego trip, I'm afraid.
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Mary,
I am the meeting that Kari is referring to. The PM has always stated that if you have any questions, we can come into the office to talk to her. I have learned the hard way that talk to her does not mean that she will give the correct answers and when challenged, the PM denies previous answers. I now record meetings so we have an exact account.
Yes, the HOA board pres. came to the Residents Meeting and reported back to her. We have no problem with that as we are trying to keep everything open. However since she has stressed that our meetings are unsanctioned (even to the point of seeking legal advise to get me to stop the meetings) we did not think that she would accept any input. However she has questioned a few home owners as to why they would say anything at these meetings.
I am the meeting that Kari is referring to. The PM has always stated that if you have any questions, we can come into the office to talk to her. I have learned the hard way that talk to her does not mean that she will give the correct answers and when challenged, the PM denies previous answers. I now record meetings so we have an exact account.
Yes, the HOA board pres. came to the Residents Meeting and reported back to her. We have no problem with that as we are trying to keep everything open. However since she has stressed that our meetings are unsanctioned (even to the point of seeking legal advise to get me to stop the meetings) we did not think that she would accept any input. However she has questioned a few home owners as to why they would say anything at these meetings.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Grace,
I think perhaps she's starting to feel she's on shaky ground, so keep up the good work. As I just mentioned to Kari, the fact that she sends a board member to your meetings, means she is still in charge. The board members may be starting to come around but they are still allowing her much too much authority.
Regarding the member's meetings. All meetings of the members should be organized by the BOD, but that doesn't mean members cannot meet otherwise. I just would question any actions taken at those meetings. Afterall, all meetings should be noticed to EVERY member of the assn and, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking the board members are not invited to these meetings. The fact that the PM questions the members' attendance at these meetings speaks to her unprofessionalism.
Just keep doing what you're doing!
I think perhaps she's starting to feel she's on shaky ground, so keep up the good work. As I just mentioned to Kari, the fact that she sends a board member to your meetings, means she is still in charge. The board members may be starting to come around but they are still allowing her much too much authority.
Regarding the member's meetings. All meetings of the members should be organized by the BOD, but that doesn't mean members cannot meet otherwise. I just would question any actions taken at those meetings. Afterall, all meetings should be noticed to EVERY member of the assn and, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking the board members are not invited to these meetings. The fact that the PM questions the members' attendance at these meetings speaks to her unprofessionalism.
Just keep doing what you're doing!
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Mary,
To the contrary. We have invited all Residents to these meetings including renters. It does not mater to us if they happen to be a board member. We have even said that when a board member is present, they are there as a resident not a board member so that they are not put on the spot for information that should be brought up at a board meeting.
The meetings are to voice our concerns and try to organize them so that they can be addressed by the board.
No votes or actions can be taken as it is not a meeting sanctioned by the board. We have asked for open forum meetings with both boards present and they did hold one in January and we hope that they will decide to hold more.
We have passed out flyers to every house for all but one meeting. We wanted to see how strong the word of mouth can be. We had a poor turn out so now we do the flyers each time.
Thank you again for all of your encouragement.
To the contrary. We have invited all Residents to these meetings including renters. It does not mater to us if they happen to be a board member. We have even said that when a board member is present, they are there as a resident not a board member so that they are not put on the spot for information that should be brought up at a board meeting.
The meetings are to voice our concerns and try to organize them so that they can be addressed by the board.
No votes or actions can be taken as it is not a meeting sanctioned by the board. We have asked for open forum meetings with both boards present and they did hold one in January and we hope that they will decide to hold more.
We have passed out flyers to every house for all but one meeting. We wanted to see how strong the word of mouth can be. We had a poor turn out so now we do the flyers each time.
Thank you again for all of your encouragement.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Grace! You Community Organizer, you!
GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224
Posts: 224
Posted:
Michele,
I can not take credit nor blame for that. It has become a group effort.
But coming from one of you guys, I feel honored.
I can not take credit nor blame for that. It has become a group effort.
But coming from one of you guys, I feel honored.
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