can I post a letter

Started by BarbaraD6 • 35 replies • 2049 views

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BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

My hoa community started a website. This was started by a homeowner on a free website. Can I,as a board member post my letter to management(disapproving what they have done)Do I lose my "member" hat?
Barbara

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

Just because you were elected to the Board does not mean that you give up your rights as a homeowner. You can post comments that are critical of the Board if you want. Just remember that you will have to work with those people tomorrow.

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

DwightT,
I not concerned with my fellow board members,my concern is posting a letter I sent to management.We are supposed to be a 5 member board but have been 4 for several months now,and one of my fellow bod members is in agreement with me.
I'm concerned about the management co being able to sue me.
Barbara

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Barbara,
First I would write a position paper. About 1/2 page setting out your personal beliefs about how you feel your association should be run. Right now, at this time, transparancy is a Hot Button. I think it is absolutely necessary for BOD to be open and inviting. I would read this at a Board Meeting and have it entered into the record. Then, dependent upon the other Board members reactions I would either decide to tone your narrative up or down and see if you can't find some good stuff about the Board to include in what you post on website. You have this right unless you have somehow locked yourself into something by becoming a Board Member. Dwight is right, you have the right to post anywhere you please. However, try to use this opportunity to make some hay. I would, in effect laud the website effort, make an offer to discuss the website with the principals with the thought in mind to make it an official association website, and stress openess on both sides and transparancy for all sides.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

It must have been one heck of a letter if there is a concern about being sued. Just remember that people can sue for anything. Doesn't necessarily mean that they will actually win in court though.

As long as you stick to the facts and don't make up anything I would think that you would be OK. You might want to consider not using the company name in the post (just say "the management company") so that it doesn't show in search engines.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

As a board member, you should be bringing your concerns to the board at a meeting. A complaint letter to a community web site is not the place to get any action on this "problem." - IMHO.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Dwight and Barbara,
I don't know how I get behind the conversation or something.

Barbara, I was writing my reply when you posted apparently. I fail to see what the management co has got to do with the Board only having 4 members. Where is the President in all this. Right now you are split 2/2, is that right?
What do you hope to accomplish taking the Management Co to task pubicly? Why can't the Board take the management Co to task in their Board reports. The Board pays the M/C. the M/C answers to the Board. If the management co is not performing the members should go to the Board and demand action. It appears from this side of the pond you all are going to make things worse, instead of better.

What happened to the website posting? I am in favor of websites but why would a Board member feel it necessary to post on a private website? If your fellow Board members are not going to supprt your letter, why do it? Get someone else to write it, it you must.
But get the BOD house in order before doing something like writing a letter that may get you sued. Take small steps, not jumps off the cliff, you will get to where you are going with patience, skill, smarts and bull--it. Don't shoot yourselve in the foot.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Barbara,

I totally agree with Susan. A member website is certainly not the place to post your complaints with the PM. What does your manager have to do with the fact that you only have 4 members on the board? The manager should definitely not have any control over that matter -- that's a board matter. I'm thinking this is another example of a BOD that allows the manager to run the show and they just sit back and watch. Also, why would you be concerned with the manager suing you -- over what???

Any complaints you may have with the manager should be a matter between you, the rest of the board and the manager. The manager is hired by the BOD, not the members. If I was a member listening to your complaints about the manager I would be wondering why the board isn't reprimanding or firing him/her. As a member I can't do anything about it so why even bother me with the problem!!

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

My fellow board member and members have been kept in the dark on numerous issues. We hear the pm at meetings say "the board voted on that".Not only didn't we vote on it,it was never discussed.Several actions took place based on this false info. I wanted to be open to the members about what has been going,and I thought my complaint letter to the pm's boss would explain everything that has been going on.(the other 2 bod have been directing the pm)
We are involved in a lawsuit that the "board voted to fire a vendor" their was no vote,1 bod told pm to do it.(the association shouldn't liable)WE are involved in putting 4 properties in foreclosure(again it was said "board vote")This is causing the Association a lot of money. WE have notified the lawyer of the false info,and filed a complaint with the Dept.of Business and Regulation. Don't the members deserve the truth?
Barbara

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Barbara,
I don't think anyone is telling you not to tell the truth. We that post here have to go some on instinct, some on what we are told and a lot of trying to make sense out of things. We don't get together and decide what to say, we say what we do because it appears to be the best advice. From that position, I will answer your question about the members deserving to know the truth. Absolutely, and as quickly as possible. I am no big fan of closed to the vest boards, I think they create distrust. But we must allow the process to play out in the Boards arena, we can't bring it out for a public dogfight.
I know I am exaggerating but the point must be made. From what I can see about your Board and the actions taking place there may of been past faults and present faults, but you all stand a good chance of getting majority on this Board and I would hold that as the next step. When you do, it may be that the old will move on. You need the Presidency of the Board and the majority, then, you can tell the members all the truth. Once you do that you can pressure the MC and manager or whatever and get the train back on the track. Take smaller steps with more resolve to work and wait for your time at bat.......it will come. IMHO We use that a lot because we are shooting in the dark sometime and it is not like we are right all the time.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraD6 on 04/04/2009 9:33 AM
My fellow board member and members have been kept in the dark on numerous issues. We hear the pm at meetings say "the board voted on that".Not only didn't we vote on it,it was never discussed.Several actions took place based on this false info. I wanted to be open to the members about what has been going,and I thought my complaint letter to the pm's boss would explain everything that has been going on.(the other 2 bod have been directing the pm)
We are involved in a lawsuit that the "board voted to fire a vendor" their was no vote,1 bod told pm to do it.(the association shouldn't liable)WE are involved in putting 4 properties in foreclosure(again it was said "board vote")This is causing the Association a lot of money. WE have notified the lawyer of the false info,and filed a complaint with the Dept.of Business and Regulation. Don't the members deserve the truth?
Barbara

Barbara,

As Robert stated, of course the members deserve to know the truth. But, first, IMO, you need to clean up the board. First you say the PM does things that have not been voted on by the BOD, then you say "the other 2 bod have been directing the pm". So, which is it. Is the PM acting alone and doing as he/she pleases or is she/he getting direction from the board. As I said above, first you need to clean up the board. All 4 board members need to sit down and have a meeting of the minds. You need to act as a board and agree on the actions that are going to be carried out by the PM. Not until all this is settled should anything be told to the members. What would you expect the members to do anyhow? Frankly, if you report to the members what you have reported to us, I, as a member would be wondering what was wrong with the board that they can't make decisions and take action to correct this situation. Once there is some unity on the board and some decisions can be made -- either get rid of the board members who aren't doing their jobs or fire the PM -- whatever, then you can inform the members of these decisions and why they were made. Crying to the members now, complaining about unresolved problems, IMO, will only make the members think you are incapable of doing your job.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

In response to Barbara's original question, I'll stand by what I said.

Can Barbara post the letter? Yes. She is still a homeowner as well as a Board member, and she has the same rights as any other homeowner.

Could the management company sue her? Yes. You can be sued for anything at any time. Would they actually sue or if the did, would they win? Highly unlikely.

Now as to if Barbara SHOULD post the letter, that I can't really say. Only Barbara can make the ultimate decision as to if that would be a good idea or not. She is the one who is possibly going to have deal with the PM after the letter has been posted.

On the other hand, if writing the letter was a Board action, then there should be a record of it in the meeting minutes, which are be available to the homeowners anyway. Maybe instead of posting the letter, just mention that there was action taken concerning the issues, and leave the actual documentation in the official records.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

A newsletter stating what the board has MOTIONED and PASSED to do will clear things up. When is the last time the Board released an official newsletter?

I don't understand why you are jumping into the frey with this "he said/she said" game going on. The FACTS should be printed out for the homeowners to read.

And your PM should be told to "zip it" and not talk to the media or other homeowners about board business. She should refer all questions to the representative on the board who has been designated to speak for the board - usually the president.

As a board member, you need to rise above all this pettiness and help the board develop and release official statements. Squelch all these rumors ASAP with a newsletter or Board information/update. Stay off the gossip websites, too.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Barbara,

I agree with Susan and Mary. Posting a letter is not going to get to the core issue and that is mismanagement by the P.M and lack of any leadership from that old Board. You need to get rid of the M.C and fix what is broken. Yes you do have the right as a H.O to have an opinion on what you see as weaknesses in the running of the association but getting a rant letter posted on the website seems to be a negative approach method of trying to move forward and get the bad stuff behind you. I would NOT write that letter--sorry!

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

Donna - from Barbara's first post, it sounded like the letter has already been written and sent to the PM. Now the question is only should the homeowners be told about the letter by posting it to the website.

As mentioned, she can do that, but it might not be the best idea. If homeowners are aware of problems with the PM, probably the best thing would be to just say the problems are being dealt with and let those homeowners who are really interested request the appropriate documentation from the HOA records.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Yup,I agree but what I don't want Barbara to do is to start an engagement with the P.M other that as an official of her Board. I am not a fan of the personal agenda against anyone who works for the association other than "official" communications.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Donna,

Agreed! I think it's very unprofessional of a board member to speak ill of any other board member or the PM even if not in agreement with their actions. THese are matters that should be discussed, and resolved, by the BOD. The same applies when the board votes differently than you do on a particular issue. You should not go around telling the h/o's that the board made a bad decision and you didn't vote for it. The board should always show unity in their actions.

GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224

Posted:

I know that I am new to this site, however to some degree I disagree with the board always showing their unity. Our board is run over by the pm and also have many times that the pm says that the board voted when they did not. The majority of our board appears to just be there as a social gathering instead of association business. If the board did vote, yes show the unity unless they are following what the pm is telling them without any research. Then the home owners need to know how things are being handled so that other avenues can be looked into.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Grace,
You have valid points on P.M. control and lack of Boards having the courage to not let this happen. But in the end, no matter who makes the decisions, once they are made and voted on, even with a split vote, it is the Boards duty to stand behind those decisions.Nothing spells trouble to an association than Board members running loose from the mouth on how they didn't vote or disagree with items that are now accepted by vote or decision. I have had a few times when I wanted to pull my or someone elses hair out because I felt a decision was not right but my job was to sit on the Board, vote and hope that I agreed with all decisions. Sometimes I didn't but we moved on.

GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224

Posted:

Would that even apply if the board was in essence breaching their Fiduciary Duty?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Grace,

Of course not but by whos opinion would the breach be? Having been doing this for quite some time, there are always opinions from people about a Board not doing their duty. Unfortunately, these types of claims against Boards run rampant and many are either misunderstandings or being uninformed by both Boards and members, lack of communications and of course, just plain stupidity that a Board thinks they can get away with something. But we need to stck to Barbaras post here. Your concerns are a whole nother subject.

GraceH (Virginia)
Posts: 224

Posted:

Donna,
You are right.
Sorry for the intrusion.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary and Donna,
Here's one that always stops me cold Mary. "The Board should always show unity in their actions."

I wonder if that statement is any reflection of how you consider the HO. You put any three people in a room and ask them three questions and there will be differences. I know this, other people should and do know this. A display of unity is Bravado in this case. Do I think the board should air their differences..................no.
But keep in mind that the Board votes on issue and they endorse the majority many times, and there are time they endorse the unanimous verdict of the Board. But I have trouble translating that into the Board should show unity and hide differences. They don't have to show anything but I endorse a vote count on issues and if a vote is taken show the vote, and explain the ruling of the vote was a majority vote.
But maybe I am too sensitive and you are saying the same thing I am saying.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Grace,

There is no need to apologize and you certainly are not intruding. We have a habit of straying from the original post and there has been some references to making an attempt to stay focused more on the subject. Start a new thread with your subject of interest. I have a feeling that you want to get us onto something that you may have been experiencing with your own Board?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

When I say the board should show unity does not mean I'm saying all board members should always vote alike. I'm speaking about what a board member says outside a board meeting against the other board members or against any actions taken by the board. If board member B voted against an action but it passed anyhow and has caused a stir in the neighborhood, board member B can let his friends know he voted against the action but he should be supportive of the board's decision. One board member talking against another or against the board as a whole doesn't solve anything and only promotes more discension in the community. Barbara's letter to the PM is a good example. If this was a letter from the BOD, that would be different, but it's a letter from her -- one board member. I don't think it's a very professional way to act and then to want to put it on the HOAs website is even worse. This has nothing to do with keeping information from the members; it has to do with professionalism in carrying out your resp. as a board member. Just my opinion, of course.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary,
Maybe I am saying (if a choice if given), that the election would be to say that Board Members have no authority to publicly criticize the actions of the Board, they may have differences of opinions but they do not necessarily speak for the Board. However Board actions are approved by the board and that means the members approved the actions of the Board. Their personal like or dislike do not enter into the picture.

I think something along those thought lines explain reality. Where as if you try to tell people the Board speaks with one tongue, you know they can't believe that..........people are people.

Maybe it is the board speaks with many tongues but the Boards actions are approved under the governing documents and those actions are binding and legal under the law.

Now I can support the last and you and I would be in accord.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbaraD6 on 04/03/2009 6:19 PM
DwightT,
I not concerned with my fellow board members,my concern is posting a letter I sent to management.We are supposed to be a 5 member board but have been 4 for several months now,and one of my fellow bod members is in agreement with me.
I'm concerned about the management co being able to sue me.
Barbara

BarbaraD6 - Doesn't your MC take marching orders from the Board members and the governing documents? If your governing docs state there are to be 5 BOD members, and there is a vacancy, than your BOD needs to adhere to the governing documents. As a member of the BOD, you need to, or you need your President to add the matter to the next BOD and or Open Meeting agenda for discussion. To me on face value of what you wrote above this sounds like an issue within the BOD, not the MC.

Sincerely,
Gerald

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

All I'm saying is that, as a board member, when I'm speaking over the fence to my neighbor and a recent action of the board comes up, I might say how I voted but I'm not going to say whether or not what the board voted to do was wrong (even though I may personally think that). Any opposition I have to their actions should be expressed at the board meeting not to a neighbor in a private conversation. After the vote is taken the board should put on a united front, otherwise they could unwittingly cause discension and turmoil in the community. Just my opinion, of course. Of course this whole philosophy of mine would go out the window if the board voted to take an action that was not IAW the gov. docs and/or state law. That's a whole different animal!!!

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary,
As stated, I think not only is your position proper for you, and your Board, it is the right thing to do, because it puts your association ahead of a personal agenda.

Now, folks like me, mere owners, have a lot more latitude, but push comes to shove their dedication and responsibility is not less strong than the Boards and they have to put the association first also,

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

Very true! Too many personal agendas muddies up the waters.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaryA1 on 04/07/2009 3:23 PM
Robert,

All I'm saying is that, as a board member, when I'm speaking over the fence to my neighbor and a recent action of the board comes up, I might say how I voted but I'm not going to say whether or not what the board voted to do was wrong (even though I may personally think that). Any opposition I have to their actions should be expressed at the board meeting not to a neighbor in a private conversation. After the vote is taken the board should put on a united front, otherwise they could unwittingly cause discension and turmoil in the community. Just my opinion, of course. Of course this whole philosophy of mine would go out the window if the board voted to take an action that was not IAW the gov. docs and/or state law. That's a whole different animal!!!

Disagreement or difference of opinion by a board member with the decision of the board does not mean dissension. A candid discussion in an open meeting with the association present is not a bad thing. Each owner/member of the association is entitled to know how their representatives voted. As long as the board members agree to disagree of course. I do think that as a board member it's always good to not get too deep in discussion with owners about association related matters outside of a board meeting.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Gerald,
Your comments are well stated and I certainly hope accepted constructively as I am sure Mmary will agree in principal. I really think our (Mary, you and I) agree in nearly all this and taken together our input is some pretty solid advise. It does leave the door open for indivdual circumsatnace, sets no time limits and orders no directives. Yet, all in all, there is plenty of good stuff there, who can ask for more.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Gerald,

I certainly agree with your statement: "I do think that as a board member it's always good to not get too deep in discussion with owners about association related matters outside of a board meeting.", as that is the exact point I've been trying to get across to Barbara. If one board member has a problem with the other board members, or even just one, it's best to hash that out just between the board members. In this case, the problem is the PM so Barbara should be discussing her concerns with her fellow board members. IMO, her sending a letter to the PM was very unprofessional and wanting to post it on the HOA's website will only serve to create dissension in the community. I never said dissension is caused by board members disagreeing, in fact I think that's healthy!

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

Barbara,

Ye, the members deserve to know what is going on in THEIR association. We tape record our board meetings..not a bad idea. I would have no problem posting a letter. It's still a free country but I would avoid using the management company's name (even tho the owners will know who they are.)

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Ellen,

I agree the members should know what's going on in their community. But differences between board members or one board member and the PM are best settled by the BOD. Unless gross mismanagement of funds or violations of gov docs and/or state law is taking place, the members do not need to know everything. We're not talking about what's going on in a meeting. We're talking about disagreements over how assn business is conducted. Why would you think the members should know about this?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Mary,
I agree with you on this. It is difficult enough to keep things going smoothly without anyone taking sides. I still push Barbara to take the high road and not get down to a level that comes off as nit picking or petty. Fix the problem internally. Anything to do with the P.M. is an internal problem and it is the Boards duty to handle it. Members do not need to know the smaller stuff, especially if it comes down to he said, she said or did.

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