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TerryL3 (Illinois)
Posts: 13
Posted:
I'm in a pickle here - I rent out my condo and received a call last weekend stating that they had a water mark with mold on it. I had it sampled and found it to have a very bad mold (Stachybotrys). I contacted the association and they had someone come at my instance to look at the roof - there is a problem with the chimney flashing which caused this water stain and mold. They are fixing the roof(chimney area) and when I inquired about the mold issue they are telling me that they are only responsible to fix the outside and the homeowner is responsible for the inside. His exact words in an e-mail were:

"I believe the position of the board is that we take care of the outside and the homeowner is responsible for the inside. We will pay for the roof repairs but the mold is up to the homeowner."

My understanding of the mold issue is that this mold may be in the cavity of the fireplace or on structural components in the attic-all of which need to be cleaned of mold. Who pays for this?
I live in the state of Illinois - and according to our declaration-the structural parts are the associations responsibility. Plus the fact that this mold was caused by a roof leak. I know that my insurance also covers from the drywall in and the associations is from the drywall out. Incidentally, there is no insurance coverage-both personal and thru the association. So who is responsible?
JohnB7 (South Carolina)
Posts: 176
Posted:
The HOA

Have your attorney contact them ASAP

You are probably responsible to repaint AFTER the mold remediation

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
You said:

"Incidentally, there is no insurance coverage-both personal and thru the association".

Please explain.
TerryL3 (Illinois)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Thank you. I had a hard time believing I was responsible for this. I know that ultimately it comes out of my pocket through the dues. Thanks
TerryL3 (Illinois)
Posts: 13
Posted:
I called my insurance company and I have no personal insurance to cover mold - it is excluded. The association insurance company is the same as mine - Country Insurance and they said that the Association has no coverage either - also excluded.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
TerryL,
I strongly suspect their will have to be a decision (agreement) between you and the Board as to who owns what. If this mold is in on your dry wall then you must find some evidence that this drywall belong to you. Look up your Master Deed and under exhibit there should be a "Units description" that will define where an owner property starts and stops in the condo. Normally attics are Regime association responsibility unless a description of the area is covered in a units description. This is really tough to solve or can be. However, this stuff (mold) demands it be treated for health reasons. I would immediately look for ways to reach a compromise with your Board. Baring that I would immediately fix the problem inside your units, keep receipts and records and get an attorney. Also keep record of any conversations with Manager or Board members. I would also ask to be heard as an Agenda Item at the next Board meeting and appear and state your case. Really the best solution is compromise.............but don't ignore any of this. As a owner that is knowledgeable of this problem, you could be liable if you just fix your problem(if you can) and walk away.
TerryL3 (Illinois)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Hi Robert - I would much rather come to an amicable solution. We are a small association and really can't afford much-I don't want to be a burden on them, but what's fair is fair. If another unit is affected with mold-who pays for that one-I know there are circumstances to consider, and I've weighed them on this issue. I really didn't like the correspondence I received from a board member-like it's only my problem. I intend on making my unit right and paying the bill-my tenants have a 2 year old little girl that is sick from this mold. I don't want anything to happen to her or my tenants-I care a lot about them. I will however document and photograph everything. Thanks
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Have you found a temporary residence in the interim?

I would not want to be living in a house with that particular mold.

And, from what I understand, it is very invasive.

TerryL3 (Illinois)
Posts: 13
Posted:
I rent this out - I think we've caught this rather early so I'm not told by anyone that we couldn't live in the place-so no, we're still there.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
TerryL.
Keep your head on straight TerryL, you are not the first to struggle with this issue.

Don't know if the shoes fits here, but I also suggest your interest in your tenant(rental) does not obscure your primary concern for the association (real property). Not pointing fingers, just suggesting that, as you mentioned, you are a small Regime. As such, we all have to consider the health and well being of the whole before we take care of personal agendas. You seem very aware of this Terry and it will make your negotiations much easier if you don't do anything to cost the association. I also agree completely that the Board has not put their best foot forward in answering your concerns. They should welcome the opportunity to solve this problem in a civil manner. I hope this is not a case of the Board presenting a defensive posture because there are other problems with the Board or the management.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Terry,

Frankly, I don't believe it's a matter of who owns what. I think whoever is resp. to pay for the repair would be determined by what caused the mold. If it was caused as a result of the roof leak then I would say the assn should pay. You may have to consult with an attorney on this. I've heard this is a problem that can be very costly to repair.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Mary is right, this can be very costly, because it's not a simple clean-and-go solution.

This is usually a very aggressive and hard to eradicate mold.

I'm still surprised that the recommendation to vacate the unit was not given.

Oh well.
TerryL3 (Illinois)
Posts: 13
Posted:
I've again contacted the association and asked why they've come to this conclusion and I feel like I'm being put on the back burner and shunned. I'll again try to contact them and come to an agreement, but It's looking more like that won't happen. The mold is contained in the attic area-I think. The roof will be done this week and then I will get someone over there to look at the extent of the mold. It may be then that we are asked to vacate the premises-I don't know. Thanks for your suggestions and comments-I really appreciate it. I guess I'll find a lawyer-I really didn't want to go that route! urgggggg!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Terry,

I think you're wise to seek legal advice. I firmly believe the cause of the mold is what determines who is resp. for the repair. Of course that is just my opinion, rooted in common sense. I've been known to be wrong -- I think once way back in 1975! LOL
TerryL3 (Illinois)
Posts: 13
Posted:
I'll keep you posted - just really didn't want to go that route-when you get lawyers in the mix-it just ends up costing everyone more money-something I may need when I get into all of this...any plenty of it too! Thanks
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Please keep us posted.

This mold is one of my biggest fears/worries in my own home.

I'm paranoid as he** about it, after seen how insidious it is.

Its spores can spread quite far and not be noticeable to the human eye.

And it can cause tremendous neurological damage to people before it's caught or noticed.

Some of it irreparable.

BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posted:
Hello,

I suggest getting the facts straight re mold and potential health effects, as there are some opinions being provided here.

Check out the IL Dept. of Public Health web site, or, the Center for Disease Control web site for factual info:

http://www.cdc.gov/MOLD/stachy.htm#Q1

http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/factsheets/stachybotrys.htm

Regarding who is responsible – it comes down to what your governing docs state. The IL Condo Act defines (generally) common elements, unit, etc., but your governing docs should hopefully provide greater clarification under definitions for common elements, units, limited (exclusive use) common elements, and identifying who is responsible for what. For example, our attorney developed a chart listing all of these and identifies who is responsible, and included a citation to the Condo Act and our governing docs. (BTW – if your HOA does not have this, I highly recommend developing one as it has made the question of who is responsible much easier to answer, cheaper - do not need to consult attorney time and again, and ensures consistency.)

In our HOA, if a roof leak caused damage, the Association would pay for dry wall repairs and the HO would pay for the paint.

Here is an article written by an IL HOA attorney regarding the question of who pays for damages caused by leaks:

http://www.ksnlaw.com/publications/dailyherald/payforleak.html

Their website contains a wealth of info under resources and publications:

http://www.ksnlaw.com/

Good luck in resolving your issue,
Bonnie
TerryL3 (Illinois)
Posts: 13
Posted:
This is what is stated in our declaration -

The "Common Elements" are: All of the Property, except the Dwelling Units. And under the Dwelling units section in the declaration it refers to the plat-I just located here is what it states:

HORIZONTAL boundaries of the units shown hereon are the vertical planes formed by the interior faces of the finished walls.
VERTICAL boundaries of units shown hereon are the horizontal planes formed by the tip of the finished floor and the bottom of the finished ceiling.

Sounds to me that the attic would be the property of the association - right?

I've also sent an e-mail to the secretary stating that the parts in the attic are structural that possibly contain the mold-such as the rafters and floor joists and trusses - Which may need to be treated or replaced-depending on the severity of the problem. Finding this plat is probably the best thing I could have done.

I've checked out a few of the links - thanks for sending me that - I really appreciate everyone's help!!! I'll let you know
MarileneS (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
I have a similar problem and this is what I was told by an attorney. If you are a renter, the landlord is responsible for taking care of it. Let him or her deal with who has to pay for it in the end.

If you are an owner and your Bylaws say that you are responsible for everything inside, even if its cause by the outside, say a leak in the roof, then you are responsible unless the mold damage is caused by negligence of the HOA to fix the problem, like in my situation. We told them the roof was leaking for weeks. They only used a temporary fix and 1 week later we had a terrible storm. Nothing was done until I went to a board meeting 5 weeks later and told them the roof was leaking. Two weeks later they fixed the leak but left the boards inside soaked like sponges. Now we have mold and the smell is awful.

Because of the negligence of the HOA in not fixing the problem when first notified, they have allowed more damage to be caused, therefore they are responsible.

M

MAS
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Terry - did you yourself do a visual inspection or did you have a licensed, qualified person come in for an inspection?

You need some documentation in your hand before you go to the board with any request/demand.
TerryL3 (Illinois)
Posts: 13
Posted:
A certified inspector took the sample and sent it to a lab. I'm just going to fix it and worry about the association later. I don't know any other way. I can't let my property go down hill because of an association. The roof is now fixed, so my next step is to call someone who will remediate it. I have the complete report for my files. Thanks.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Terry,

Make certain you keep a copy of EVERYTHING associated with this repair, including copies of all the invoices. If, at a later date, you decide to meet with an attorney and find the assn should have taken care of this you can always take them to court. The more info you have the better prepared you will be to present your case.

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