turn off water

Started by BarbaraD6 • 27 replies • 5496 views

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BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

Our bylaws state we can turn off water of a member who is not paying.(this person owe's about $6,0000 in hoa dues and approx $800.00 in water bill) We have placed a foreclosure,but in the meantime this person is wasting water.(he washes his car,etc and the other members are irate about it)The lawyer is concerned that a person may have a disability(this person doesn't) Has anyone else had to cut off a members water? If so what happened?
thanks
Barbara

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Barbara,

I don't experience with this tactic as I have never lived in a condo assn and I believe that would be the only place where this type action is allowed and/or warranted. However, I have heard of this type measure being taken and it is effective. If your BOD wants to try it out I believe you have an excellent candidate in this h/o who doesn't seem to want to pay for anything! I'd say go for it.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Barbara,

This is from our home page. You need to give the owner a 24 hour notice that the water will be turned off unless payment is made. That's all that is required because your documents do cover shut offs. It doesn't matter if it is your HOA or the County, water can be shut off for non payment of bills.

"Broward County cuts off water to townhouse community
$8,100 owed to Broward; 60 percent of owners delinquent on fees
By Linda Trischitta | South Florida Sun-Sentinel
March 26, 2009
When Peter Lynch went to make coffee in his Blue Lake townhouse Wednesday morning, the tap was dry.

"I looked outside and saw the people from the county turning the water off," said Lynch, who is president of the townhome condo association.

A Broward County Click here for restaurant inspection reports official said after 21/2 months of unpaid bills and with $8,100 owed, the shut-off after 24 hours' notice was proper.

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

Mary and Donna,
Thank you for your insight. In our community the "hoa" has to pay the water bill,and when each ho pays, the hoa gets the money back. For some reason it can't be taken out of the hoa's name.Up to this point numerous ho's haven't paid the water bill and they know nothing would be done to them.
thanks again
Barbara

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960

Posted:

Barbara are you condos or stand alone houses? You must have individual water meters, correct? What type of shut off valves do you have? I'm just curious because our condos all have valves outside that owners shut off and turn on all the time when they have plumbing work done. I'm just wondering what would keep the owner from just turning it back on if you do indeed shut it off? A lock?

We, too wanted to shut off the water to a deadbeat owner's condo. Our attorney said NO WAY.

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

Anna,
We are townhouse,yes we have individual water meters. I don't know about shut off valves though.What dollar amount does your deadbeat owe?
Barbara

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960

Posted:

He owes $5000.00. But our documents must be a bit different from yours. We do not charge individual owners for their use of water. We do not have individual meters....as stupid as that sounds.

One of the biggest complaints at our last annual meeting was how unfair it is that all units pay an equal share for water, through their maintenance fees. So it's blatantly abused. One condo has six people living there and they do laundry all day long. Everyone who lives alone is justifiably ticked off about it.

We took this problem to our attorney. It seemed so unfair because if the power or phone company didn't get paid, they would surely shut off their services for non-payment. But our attorney told us that because the water bill is BILLED TO and PAID BY the "XYZ Condo Association"; and because the lien/forclosure is for non-payment of maintenance fees, and the water is PART of the maintenance fees that we can't also shut off the water. We're already going after him for fees (which includes the water--month after month)--until it's paid.

I hope I wrote this so it makes a little sense.

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

Anna,
That was the situation in an apartment building my sister lived in. What they did was split the bill up as to how many people lived in each apartment.Maybe you could look into something like that. Our bill is the sent to us but only after you pay the bill does the hoa get the money back. Hope things get better.
Barbara

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Anna - for $5,000, it would be worth having a shut-off valve installed on this persons water line.

Then shut if off.

RichS (Florida)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Barbara, my townhome community in Brandon Fl went through this and after a 10 month process we now have the right to turn off water to the homes at approximately 60 days late. I did not use our attorney but rather another experienced in HOA law that agreed we had the right. He made the proper calls etc and all in all it cost the association about 1000 dollars for his time and filing fees. We have a plimber who comes in and installs a device on the water line in and locks it. In addition to the owned fees they inccur another 250-300 in penalties and expenses for shut off and turn on. let me know if you would like more info.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

Just a reminder, but sometimes, pipes and connections and joints spring leaks, meters bust, and you must shut off the water immediately, so you can start repairs. Water must be shut off, it's an emergency, no way to predict it, things just happen.

Perhaps that's about to happen in your area.

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960

Posted:

Rich, I would be very interested in more information. Did you take you (the Association) ten months to be granted the right to shut off their water? Very curious.

Thanks!

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

Rich,
What did you do? The upfront cost was $1000 and then the charge for the plumber to shut it off? I appreciate all the details.
Barbara

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Barbara,
Open up Barbara, are you Condos or HOA?

If you are condos, you have control over the water, if you are HOA, you probably have none and you will be trespassing on private property. In town house the question is still valid Hoa or condo.

I doubt very much an HOA would have any provisions to cut off individual water at a meter. If it was defined in the Covenants, maybe, but I doubt it. Keep in mind the reason the water company can cut off water is because it is their meter. It is common for condos to have common water and the bill is charged to the budget. It is also common to have individual water shut off valves in the common areas..........the control of the Regime, and if stated in covenants the water can be shut off. In any event the only time the water company gets involved is when they don't get paid.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

add:
We get a lot of this and for those that have question to post.
Check your documents and discover what kind of association you are under. One way to check is go to state business listings website and search you RIGHT name in the search box.

Also I suggest before posting any questions do a little internet searching of county, city, state records and look for anything that has the CORRECT name of the association. Lots of interesting stuff out there. Even search your Local paper and court house records for association name or management companies or managers.

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

Robert,
HOA. "Failure of an owner to pay for said service may result in the Association terminating said service to that owner"
Robert is my docs so different than others? When I have posted before,you thought my docs couldn't have said what I wrote.(ex: association voted manager in and out)
thanks for your input
Barbara

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Barbara,
No you are right, that is exactly what I said and I am afraid I may have to sort of say that again.
I can not see how an HOA, defined as single family homes situated on plots that are owner occupied, can have the authority to shut your water off. Obviously, you say that is not so. I stand corrected but if the question comes up again that is the advise I would give.

I would also assume the "said services" are services that are association owned. Maybe you all have your our treatment plant and deep water wells, I don't really know. But if I understand you are saying you pay your water bill to the association and the association charges you for the water, is that correct? I don't know if your documents are that much different than most others but certainly these two items seem outside the norm.

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

Robert,
As far as I know the procedure is,the Associaton has to pay the water company. As owners pay the water bill to the water co the Associaton gets the money back.
Barbara

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Barbara,
Your explanation raises more questions than it answers? Are the individual units metered or is there just one big meter serving all the water needs of the community? Do you all pay the same amount? I would object if I paid the same water bill as a family with 4 kids, wouldn't you? How is your common water, pools, irrigation, offices, fountains metered/or not metered? Can't you all see the holes in all this? I am not saying anything is wrong, I am saying there appears to be lots you should know and don't know. You can bet someone knows.

You are saying the association pays the water bill (how much?). Then owners pay the water Company (How much?). Then as payments are made by the owners to the water companies (is this a metered bill?), the Water Company gets the money back (How much). Who pays the common water usage?

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

In one of my former HOA's, the HOA had a master meter on the water line. The HOA paid the water company for all the water coming past that meter. Then, each individual home in the HOA had a submeter on the line, and each owner paid for their water use. The HOA sold the water from the master meter to all the submeters. we didn't have much "common water", but essentially, you added all the submeters up, subtracted from the main meter, and that water use was the HOA responsibility.
(entirely fictitious numbers). THe HOA bought water for 24 cents a gallon, sold to owners for 25 cents a gallon. the profit went to fund the HOA (landscaping, roads, etc).

We would frequently have unpaid bills/stealing owners, and a lock was applied to the meter pretty quick. If that lock were broken, we experienced "meter failures", and would shut off the water, and remove the meter for repair. We would, of course, do our darndest to get that meter back in place for the owner, but.. you know, parts are hard to come by for those old things, and the part we need costs money, and with some folks not paying their bills, we don't have enough to pay for it, .......

RichS (Florida)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Sorry to take so long to answer. I'm in the midst of moving and will try to give some answers and then look for my documentation. We have a master meter and water is included in monthly assessment. Yes it's unfair everyone pays the same nomatter the size of the family. The real problem is in the "paying". People just weren't. Our situation was complicated by the large number of investors in the HOA. They were collecting rent and not paying monthly assessment. So we were subsidizing the landlords. Lots of owners weren't paying either due to forclosure or just not wanting to pay. The forclosures are taking extended time now and they thought they should get a free ride on monthky assessment as well as mortgage. Our governing documents said much like your's thatwith failure to pay we could cut off services. Locking out pool cards did nothing, others just let them in. Now water, that made a impact. We ammended our documents to include the proper legalize (from attorney) cover the shut off. When they have not paid by the 15th mgt sends a notice including water turn off verbage. Not paid by the 30th a 30 day demand letter goes and at 60 days we have the plumber turn off. File is also at the attorney by this time so they have go through him and pay his fees as well as plumbers fee to have service restored. $255 to turn off and $55 to turn on. The hardware the plumber places stays so if they fail to pay a gain it's the turn of a handle and a lock installation. Post your email address and I try to find the time to find the ammendment our attorney drew up and send it to you. we are all legal and above board in our actions.

RichS (Florida)
Posts: 13

Posted:

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

Thanks Rich,I wondered what happened to you. My email address is [email protected]
Thanks again
Barbara

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

RichS,

Your: Yes it's unfair everyone pays the same nomatter the size of the family. The real problem is in the "paying". People just weren't. Our situation was complicated by the large number of investors in the HOA. They were collecting rent and not paying monthly assessment. So we were subsidizing the landlords. Lots of owners weren't paying either due to forclosure or just not wanting to pay. The forclosures are taking extended time now and they thought they should get a free ride on monthky assessment as well as mortgage. Our governing documents said much like your's thatwith failure to pay we could cut off services. Locking out pool cards did nothing, others just let them in. Now water, that made a impact. We ammended our documents to include the proper legalize (from attorney) cover the shut off. When they have not paid by the 15th mgt sends a notice including water turn off verbage. Not paid by the 30th a 30 day demand letter goes and at 60 days we have the plumber turn off. File is also at the attorney by this time so they have go through him and pay his fees as well as plumbers fee to have service restored. $255 to turn off and $55 to turn on. The hardware the plumber places stays so if they fail to pay a gain it's the turn of a handle and a lock installation.

From the above are you saying you now have no more trouble from people not paying their bills. Since you got a lawyer to draw up a legal document that allows you to turn off their water because they didn't pay their bills.
If you would be so kind, maybe you could post this lawyer letter and black out the personals. I, and I am sure others would like to see the magic bullet. Sounds like a winner to me, has it be challenged in court? Now I can maybe get it if a association includes all the water under one bill and the total assessment pays directly for everything. But if you are just charging everyone a average figure for the water usage, it appears it would be hard to single out what if any water useage applies to a specific unit. I am not doubting what you say in any form, it just may be a magic bullet for your association,
Thanks

RichS (Florida)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Not a magic bullet by any means. We still have those who choose not to pay. When they are rental units the tenants quickly vacate when water d/c'd. If we don't collect at least we are not supplementing the landlords y paying for the tenants use of water, pool, garbage, etc. It also moved out those forclosures who continued to stay in their home and not pay assessments as well. Without water they tend to move on, reducing the use. For those that want to stay or have their tenants stay, they pay. It's a lot of work, a lot of dirty looks and at times unpopular even with those owners who are bleeding hearts and forget, the HOA has bills to pay. Water in my community is 42%, yes 42% of my budget.

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347

Posted:

Rich,
You said you had to ammend the docs. If many were upset how did you get 67%(in our community) to vote to ammend? We have never been able to change anything as we're lucky if we can get 30 people to vote.
Barbara

ThomasM22 (Florida)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Rich, Could you please email me a copy of the legal document your attorney prepared for you that allowed your Association to do the shut off/turn on of water and collect the penalties. In other info you have that you
feel would be useful will be appreciated.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

This post is 10 years old. Please open a new topic. Thanks!

Former HOA President

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