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AllenS3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I'm buying a townhome through an auction. The HOA required that I need to be a HOA member to buy that property. The HOA's denied my application to become a HOA member without any good cause.

The BOD said, according to the covenants, they will send another purchaser to the seller with the same price and term as my sales contract.

1. Can they deny me to become an HOA member without good cause?
2. Can state of Florida permit the following article in the HOA covenants?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Deny without good cause. The Association's approval shall not be denied unless a majority of the whole Board so votes. If the Board disapproves without good cause, then within thirty days after the Board meeting at which the disapproval took place, the Board shall deliver in writing to the owner (the seller) the name of an approved purchaser who will purchase the Lot at the sam price and upon substantially the same terms as in the disapproved sales contract.
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I have spent tons of efforts in buying this property and also $35 to buy their HOA document and $150 for HOA member application.

I'm the first purchaser but the HOA, not the seller, can decide who to sell? I just don't think this is right.

Thanks in advance for your respond.

Allen
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Allen,

Something smells fishy here. You cannot become a member of the HOA until such time as you own property there. You cannot buy a membership!! Also, I don't believe the HOA can deny you the right to bid on this property. I would check with an attorney. On the flip side, are you sure you want to live in a community governed by this BOD? You might be wise to start looking elsewhere.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Allen,

Not only does it smell fishy, but I would take my loses and run. It seems that you are already a marked person for some reason or another.

But to answer your question, no matter what their documents are saying, unless this is an age restricted community and you are not old enough to live there, the HOA cannot deny you the purchase of the unit. It is under the Fair Housing Act/ discrimination sections. But I still find that what hoops that you have jumped thru already, would make me stop moving into the developement. Interviewing a potential owner is also illegal unless they are just going over rules and regs of the association with you on a personal basis. This sounds discriminatory to me.

I have rentals in Florida and I can tell you that there are hundreds of thousands of places available to purchase.
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
Allen---listen to the other responses here! If you haven't yet unpacked your bags, load up the car and RUN.

This is NOT the normal proceedure when buying into a condo or homeowners association. Something doesn't sound on the up and up.

As Donna, said, there are THOUSANDS of choices here in Florida. Don't settle for this one.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
I am not to familiar with purchasing a home, but is it normal for an HOA to charge for membership applications?

To me, it sounds like the HOA thought of a get-rich-quick scheme... charge prospective homeowners applications and then deny the application and move on to the next person.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
If this is a cooperative, rather than a condo or homeowners association, then what you have described sounds reasonable. This may be a terminology question. I am not familiar enough with Florida statutes to know if cooperatives are permitted as they are in most other states. Cooperatives do have the right to approve owners/residents.

In a cooperative, owners purchase stock in the corporation that owns the building along with the exclusive right to a particular apartment. New York City has many hundreds of co-ops.
AllenS3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you all for your kind reply.

I don't like the way this HOA operates but I had to follow all the procedures after I won the bid at the auction. In the sales contract, I'm required to have the approval from that HOA and I have to become a member first for HOA to approve the sales.

I feel this is a scam in the first place when I saw the HOA document. But I have to go through every step to get my deposit back from the auction company.

I did a little research about that HOA and found the following:

******************
The HOA in this community will not alow anyone to purchase here and move in. They want the properties to decline in value. They then pick them up and rent them out. They have a real nice scam going on there. They will rent to you then wait a few months and then look for a reason to throw you out and keep all your deposits etc. They do not take care of the property at all. Though some of the units are going for as low as $30k you will have to put alot of money into them to make them liveable. There are more foreclosed and empty units than there are occupied. In my opinion it is not worth the time or effort to buy here.

Sat Feb 28 2009, 17:57
*******************

Sorry, I have stop here and I'll be right back.

Thanks.

Allen
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Allen,

If what you found out about this HOA is in fact the truth, they should be reported to the AG -- this sure sounds like a scam to me.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:


Allen,

Who wrote this or where did this come from?--"-The HOA in this community will not alow anyone to purchase here and move in. They want the properties to decline in value. They then pick them up and rent them out. They have a real nice scam going on there. They will rent to you then wait a few months and then look for a reason to throw you out and keep all your deposits etc. They do not take care of the property at all. Though some of the units are going for as low as $30k you will have to put alot of money into them to make them liveable. There are more foreclosed and empty units than there are occupied. In my opinion it is not worth the time or effort to buy here.

Sat Feb 28 2009, 17:57"
Yes, an application fee is charged by most communitites that you are moving into except stand alone homes normally do not. You said that this is a Town Home . Many units like this with common shared elements such as a center wall and roofs will have an application fee. For what, I really see no reason, but they do.

I realize that you bought it at auction but Florida law states that a potential buyer may back out of an offer IF during a review of the governing documents, the buyer feels that they will not be able to comply with the rules and covenants. Normally it says that you have 48 hours to review but you also did this what we say as --"assss backwards", putting down the money before you knew what you were getting into.
*******************
AllenS3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
At the auction, once I won the bid then I have to put down my deposit $2500. The auction company (Williams and Williams) do not provide the HOA document and the closing company work for auction asked me to get the HOA approval myself.

BTW, I looked the applicaton I filled out and it was for "Residency application" and there will be a one-time New Member/Initial fee of $1200.00 to become a member of that HOA.

What I like to find out:
1. In Florida, if there are laws the HOA have to follow when they declare covenants and restrictions?
2. In Florida (Osceola county), will the state or county review the covenants and restrictions?
3. Is there a regulation as to how a HOA can charge a reasonable fee?
4. Is there a place where I can report if HOA is doing something not right?

Thanks.

Allen
AllenS3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Here is the link that point to the article I posted above.

http://www.trulia.com/voices/Home_Buying/I_am_trying_to_buy_in_Universal_Resorts_Place_FL_b-40118

The name of the HOA: Victoria Landing Homeowners' Association, Inc.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Allen,

First of all, you still have not told us what this association is. Is it a timeshare or resort conversion?

You ask---"What I like to find out:
1. In Florida, if there are laws the HOA have to follow when they declare covenants and restrictions?
2. In Florida (Osceola county), will the state or county review the covenants and restrictions?
3. Is there a regulation as to how a HOA can charge a reasonable fee?
4. Is there a place where I can report if HOA is doing something not right?

1)Yes, HOAs are micro communities and file their documents within the County that the community is established at the Clerk Of County Courts office.

The State has Statutes that all HOAs must follow. They are 720 for stand alone homes , townhomes and villas. 718 for condos, 723 for mobile home parks and 617 for the Not For Profit Corp laws which all of the Statutes are governed under.

2) The State or County will probably not review or look at the documents unless there is a problem. The docs were written by some fancy lawyer someplace and are most likely compliant with State laws.

3) Fees are charged by the HOA in amounts as high as they can get away with. Have you heard of $35,000? Try the Palm Beach or Naples area.

4) Any help you might get lucky with achieving will be with the State Attorney Generals office and the only thing that I saw on your post was the discrimination for being turned down. Some of these places require a HOA member to have X amount of dollars in "liquid assets.
AllenS3 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:

Thanks.

The community was a resort and had some individual owner.

I've just talked to both the auction company and their closing company about this HOA. They've represented many sellers, mostly the bank, from this community and they have not sell one property since 2007. The banks were not willing to spend more money to bring this matter to the court. They try to work together as the member of the HOA and vote out the bad statement that prevents them from selling their property. Who knows when that will happen.

I'm not sure why the HOA prevent anybody from buying the property in their community. But I'm going to take my small lose and run. (I can get my deposit back from the auction company)

Thank you all for providing me some valuable advice.

Allen

BTW, just beware if you are buying the property at Universal Resort Place, Kissimmee, FL 34744

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:


Allen,

You have made a very wise decision. Youe loses are small compared to what they could have been.
JohnM3 (Florida)
Posts: 288
Posted:
You ask---"What I like to find out:
1. In Florida, if there are laws the HOA have to follow when they declare covenants and restrictions?Most HOAs do not write there docs the developer does that
2. In Florida (Osceola county), will the state or county review the covenants and restrictions? The state rubber stamps them
3. Is there a regulation as to how a HOA can charge a reasonable fee? Not really but you can tie them up in knots over silly things but why bother
4. Is there a place where I can report if HOA is doing something not right? Thats what we call the joke of the month club. Yea there is a State agency responsible to do that but there are over 65000 HOAs in Florida and probably the same amount of condos . So as you can tell its a different world....

A few facts are in order here.

hoa docs are written almost exclusively by the original developer period. They usually make them next to impossible to modify so most HOA's don't even attempt to modify them

The original docs are written and submitted to the state level only and approved after the taxes are paid on the docs. This is Florida only understand Florida Law is quite different than many states so when you do the research make sure your using Florida Law only..........................

We have 17 empty houses you can come and buy the only thing we ask is close on the house and be a decent neighbor. If you dont like the color we allow 12 different coors all trim in white. We are located 2 blocks north of Miami. Bring your Spanish Dictionary please
Happy Easter to all
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
If this is a home then you may have a course of action that could return what you have spent and plenty more. Especially if you happen to belong to any "protected" group. (You might be a minority, or disabled, or a vet.) In some states right of first refusal is now outright banned, but I have no idea about Florida. There is a bill in Texas to ban this because it is mostly a veiled attempt to circumvent fair housing law.

One possibility that I thought of was that the seller and the HOA Board might have colluded to simply deny anyone in the event the auction amount was not high enough. I would think the banks would certainly hold the HOA to the requirement to provide a purchaser. If I were in the position I would file suit seeking interest for each day starting from the day of the auction.
CarmenP (Florida)
Posts: 32
Posted:
Dear Allen, my name is Carmen Pena. I too was just recently denied by Victoria Landing Homeowners Association. I have retained an attorney. He has asked me to find 10 people that have been denied by VLHOA to add it in his package he is putting together to file a lawsuit. Are you willing to give me your name and address? If we win, there's a small possibility that they be forced to refund the HOA application fee. Let me know. Thanks.
CarmenP (Florida)
Posts: 32
Posted:
If anyone reads this forum, please I am begging you.....DON'T get caught up in the Universal Resorts/Victoria Landing Homeowners Association/International Sales and Leasing scam. They will decline EVERY SINGLE applicant, and pocket their money in the process. They will buy the property under International Sales and Leasing, and rent the unit. It is 100% profit for the combined corporation. I really feel bad for all the hundreds of people that they have taken for a ride.
TinoE (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Hi Carmen, I too bought a townhouse at Victoria landing and now I'm having a big problem. Who's your attorney? My email: [email protected]. Thanks.
KathleenB5 (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posted:
There appears to be a much larger picture. Who is your attorney?
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
kathleen, you are responding to a post started in 2009, and was resurrected in 2011 without much success.

I doubt Carmen will answer your question.

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