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BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
Our annual meetings have taken place in April or May.
("the association shall hold its first meeting,whether a regular or special meeting, within one year after the date of the association's incorporation. The board shall set the date and time of subsequent regular annual meetings to occur promptly after the anniverdary date of the first annual meeting. Annual meetings may be conducted electronically(i.e.,via the internet,intranet,or teleconference) if and to the extent permitted by law.)
Last year it didn't happen until July. The members want it back to the annual date of May. How can they force this to happen?
Barbara
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
subtle reminders or requests to the board about the desire should elicit a response especially from multiple owners.

if not, pitchforks and torches have a historical response accuracy.
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
Brian,
Thanks for the laugh,but the members really need help. None of your advice will work with my fellow bod members.
Barbara
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Usually, the date for the next annual meeting is set at the current annual meeting. Wonder why that did not happen, since you say that people want it back to the May meeting.

In any case, perhaps a petition could be worked up to force the board to set the meeting earlier in the year.

It should be set as close to the end of the fiscal year as possible.

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293
Posted:
Barbara,
Well, a laugh never hurts. It certainly made my afternoon, as I wait patiently for a Board member to get back to me after 3 days.

Okay, if I'm reading this correctly, you had an annual meeting in May of 2007. But didn't have another one until July 2008. And now you are coming up on the usual annual date of May 2009, and don't want to wait till July, or whenever 2009. Is that correct? If so, then, technically, the Board violated its own Bylaws by not having an annual meeting within a full calendar year, from May 2007 to May 2008. However, if the Board schedules your annual meeting for July again this year, it will be within the calendar year, which would bring them back in compliance.

Were you an officer then? But you are now, so have you not had any discussions about the upcoming meeting? I would talk to another Board officer and ask them when the annual meeting was scheduled. If they say July, ask them ask him/her why the meeting was held in July, (if you don't know). Ask if there is any way it could be brought back to the annual date of May. Was it a fluke, one of those rare times when the Board members would not be able have a quorum until July (though I doubt it, but better to know than assume)? Regardless of the answer make sure it gets on the Agenda. Remind the Board officer they were in violation when they didn't have a meeting until July, that budgets are based on a calendar year, and the members want it set back to May.

Now, technically, the Board usually has broad leeway in establishing administrative procedure, not requiring approval from the homeowners. So, they could keep it in July this year and every year. But,the Board itself must be in agreement for any rule or regulation to pass as well. Still, the time to have addressed the violation was last May. If not by you, if you were not an officer then, then certainly by an unhappy homeowner.

However, whenever your meeting this year is held, May or July, I'd be prepared. I don't know how big your neighborhood is to get a signed petition stating the desire to return the annual meeting to May. If its feasible, have it ready. Hopefully, as an Agenda item, you will be able to have a discussion about what the members want, get a motion made and seconded and a resolution passed to have the annual meeting in May. If you find your fellow officers are resistant, which could thwart a vote, then pull out the petition.

The most draconian result would be to vote the opposing officers out, for so willfully ignoring a majority of the members, on an issue that the Board violated in the first place. This, of course, would mean new volunteers to replace the ousted Board, and we all know how that usually goes.

Our Bylaws state the annual meeting shall be held in the first quarter of the calendar year. In past Minutes, 1993-2009, I saw one year we had one in January and one in December. One year it was June. One year it was May. All the other years since 1993 were in January. Your members may need to decide how important May is.

Dorothy

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
A petition will show the support you have for a MAY meeting.

But the bylaws say that the Board does set the meeting. And if they have it in July, then they are in compliance with the bylaws.

They really do need to tell WHY July has been chosen. It may be something to do with how many people can attend or the availability of a meeting room, or reports not ready, etc. etc.

Can you get any support from your State statutes about this?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Barbara,

What's the big deal about having it in July instead of May? As long as the board does schedule a meeting at least once a year they are doing their job. Is it possible that the board changed the bylaws to allow for a July meeting? But, if not, really, what is the big deal?
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
Mary,
The current BOD(2 BoD calling all the shots) is not acting in the best interest of the community.The members want them out ASAP. Florida statute and our bylaws say with a petition of 20% the members can get a special meeting within 30 days. That only gets the meeting, I think to Force them to move the annual meeting(or any other action) the petition needs 50% of members. The excuse for delaying the meeting was that we got a new pm in April. Several of us wrote the pm to call the meeting but he wouldn't. Any thoughts
Barbara
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
Dorothy,
You raised great issues.Thank you for taking the time to give your advice.
Barbara
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Mary writes:

>>>What's the big deal about having it in July instead of May? As long as the board does schedule a meeting at least once a year they are doing their job. Is it possible that the board changed the bylaws to allow for a July meeting? But, if not, really, what is the big deal?<<<

I agree and would request more info in response. If the core idea of Membership is to dump the current BOD, get those ducks in line via proxies or promised attendance, get a slate of new candidates, make sure the annual meeting is scheduled, then have at it.

BTW, the PM, unless the BOD has signed off, is not responsible for setting the date.
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
John,
We wamt the BOD out and the annual back to July.The pm sends out our proxies(only takes orders from president,not a majority of BOD) we do have a new BOD lined up. Our financial future is at stake($100,00 taken from reserve,overspending,etc)Can you clarify what you are suggesting(procedures)
I always appreciate your advice
Barbara
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Barb,

Sounds like you've got things organized and enough support to move forward.

If you really want an earlier meeting (I assume you meant May, not July, above), I'll guess your docs have provisions for a special meeting. If so, follow the procedures as outlined. Get enough to sign up to call it and hand the evidence (proxies, petitions, whatever) over to the BOD and the PM. Typically, the special will have to be convened w/in 30 days. If that doesn't convince them, then we have a diferent situation we can address. But I'd start there.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraD6 on 03/17/2009 8:29 AM
Mary,
The current BOD(2 BoD calling all the shots) is not acting in the best interest of the community.The members want them out ASAP. Florida statute and our bylaws say with a petition of 20% the members can get a special meeting within 30 days. That only gets the meeting, I think to Force them to move the annual meeting(or any other action) the petition needs 50% of members. The excuse for delaying the meeting was that we got a new pm in April. Several of us wrote the pm to call the meeting but he wouldn't. Any thoughts
Barbara

Barbara,

First of all, it's not up to the PM to call a meeting. Your letters should be directed to the BOD. However, since the members want this board removed, I would think your efforts should be directed at a recall. I've copied below the FL statute regarding recalls. I believe the requirement is for a petition of 10% (not 20%) to call a special meeting for the purpose of recalling a board member(s). However, if it were me, I think I would prefer the written agreement or written ballot and not even worry about calling a special meeting. The board has 5 days to call a board meeting to certify the ballots. Once the new board is in place then the meeting date issue can be resolved.

720.301 (10) RECALL OF DIRECTORS.--

(a)1. Regardless of any provision to the contrary contained in the governing documents, subject to the provisions of s. 720.307 regarding transition of association control, any member of the board 4of directors may be recalled and removed from office with or without cause by a majority of the total voting interests.

2. When the governing documents, including the declaration, articles of incorporation, or bylaws, provide that only a specific class of members is entitled to elect a board director or directors, only that class of members may vote to recall those board directors so elected.

(b)1. Board directors may be recalled by an agreement in writing or by written ballot without a membership meeting. The agreement in writing or the written ballots, or a copy thereof, shall be served on the association by certified mail or by personal service in the manner authorized by chapter 48 and the Florida Rules of Civil Procedure.

2. The board shall duly notice and hold a meeting of the board within 5 full business days after receipt of the agreement in writing or written ballots. At the meeting, the board shall either certify the written ballots or written agreement to recall a director or directors of the board, in which case such director or directors shall be recalled effective immediately and shall turn over to the board within 5 full business days any and all records and property of the association in their possession, or proceed as described in paragraph (d).

3. When it is determined by the department pursuant to binding arbitration proceedings that an initial recall effort was defective, written recall agreements or written ballots used in the first recall effort and not found to be defective may be reused in one subsequent recall effort. However, in no event is a written agreement or written ballot valid for more than 120 days after it has been signed by the member.

4. Any rescission or revocation of a member's written recall ballot or agreement must be in writing and, in order to be effective, must be delivered to the association before the association is served with the written recall agreements or ballots.

5. The agreement in writing or ballot shall list at least as many possible replacement directors as there are directors subject to the recall, when at least a majority of the board is sought to be recalled; the person executing the recall instrument may vote for as many replacement candidates as there are directors subject to the recall.

(c)1. If the declaration, articles of incorporation, or bylaws specifically provide, the members may also recall and remove a board director or directors by a vote taken at a meeting. If so provided in the governing documents, a special meeting of the members to recall a director or directors of the board of administration may be called by 10 percent of the voting interests giving notice of the meeting as required for a meeting of members, and the notice shall state the purpose of the meeting. Electronic transmission may not be used as a method of giving notice of a meeting called in whole or in part for this purpose.

2. The board shall duly notice and hold a board meeting within 5 full business days after the adjournment of the member meeting to recall one or more directors. At the meeting, the board shall certify the recall, in which case such member or members shall be recalled effective immediately and shall turn over to the board within 5 full business days any and all records and property of the association in their possession, or shall proceed as set forth in subparagraph (d).

(d) If the board determines not to certify the written agreement or written ballots to recall a director or directors of the board or does not certify the recall by a vote at a meeting, the board shall, within 5 full business days after the meeting, file with the department a petition for binding arbitration pursuant to the applicable procedures in ss. 718.112(2)(j) and 718.1255 and the rules adopted thereunder. For the purposes of this section, the members who voted at the meeting or who executed the agreement in writing shall constitute one party under the petition for arbitration. If the arbitrator certifies the recall as to any director or directors of the board, the recall will be effective upon mailing of the final order of arbitration to the association. The director or directors so recalled shall deliver to the board any and all records of the association in their possession within 5 full business days after the effective date of the recall.

(e) If a vacancy occurs on the board as a result of a recall and less than a majority of the board directors are removed, the vacancy may be filled by the affirmative vote of a majority of the remaining directors, notwithstanding any provision to the contrary contained in this subsection or in the association documents. If vacancies occur on the board as a result of a recall and a majority or more of the board directors are removed, the vacancies shall be filled by members voting in favor of the recall; if removal is at a meeting, any vacancies shall be filled by the members at the meeting. If the recall occurred by agreement in writing or by written ballot, members may vote for replacement directors in the same instrument in accordance with procedural rules adopted by the division, which rules need not be consistent with this subsection.

(f) If the board fails to duly notice and hold a board meeting within 5 full business days after service of an agreement in writing or within 5 full business days after the adjournment of the member recall meeting, the recall shall be deemed effective and the board directors so recalled shall immediately turn over to the board all records and property of the association.

(g) If a director who is removed fails to relinquish his or her office or turn over records as required under this section, the circuit court in the county where the association maintains its principal office may, upon the petition of the association, summarily order the director to relinquish his or her office and turn over all association records upon application of the association.

(h) The minutes of the board meeting at which the board decides whether to certify the recall are an official association record. The minutes must record the date and time of the meeting, the decision of the board, and the vote count taken on each board member subject to the recall. In addition, when the board decides not to certify the recall, as to each vote rejected, the minutes must identify the parcel number and the specific reason for each such rejection.

(i) When the recall of more than one board director is sought, the written agreement, ballot, or vote at a meeting shall provide for a separate vote for each board director sought to be recalled.

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
Mary,
YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now please explain to me about the "written agreement is" and "written ballots". This is new to me. Who writes and agreemetn,what do the ballots say,where do you get them,do they have to be sent to off property owners,etc...
Barbara
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraD6 on 03/17/2009 12:18 PM
Mary,
YOU ARE THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now please explain to me about the "written agreement is" and "written ballots". This is new to me. Who writes and agreemetn,what do the ballots say,where do you get them,do they have to be sent to off property owners,etc...
Barbara

Barbara,

I would do the written ballot instead of a written agreement. You would make up the ballot yourself. There would have to be two sections -- one for the recall and one for electing new officers. Note that subsection 5 says: "The agreement in writing or ballot shall list at least as many possible replacement directors as there are directors subject to the recall, when at least a majority of the board is sought to be recalled". Since you mentioned wanting to recall the whole board, you should be lining up replacement candidates.

Note that the statute said the written ballot must be mailed by certified mail. And, yes, ALL property owners must be sent a ballot, not just the ones who live on site.

The statute is a bit ambiguous in saying: "2. The board shall duly notice and hold a meeting of the board within 5 full business days after receipt of the agreement in writing or written ballots. The statement "after receipt of the agreement in writing. . ." could be construed to mean a member could send them out then give them to the BOD, or it could mean after they're returned to the BOD. So I don't know what to advise you on that. Sorry!

Below is a sample ballot I made up.

Name of Association

Property Owner _________________
Lot Number ___________

RECALL BALLOT

Type an explanation giving the reason for recalling the board members

Vote "Yes" or "No" for each board members name listed.

Jane Doe Yes____ No___
Sam Spade Yes___ No___

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

BOARD OF DIRECTORS ELECTION BALLOT

Vote for XXX candidates(indicate number of candidates based upon number of board members being recalled)

Joe Blow Yes___ No___
Susy Smith Yes___ No___

Mail completed ballot to: ________________
________________
________________

Ballots must be received by _______________ (insert) in order to be counted.
Ballots that do not show the name of the property owner and lot number will not be counted.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
The first post.
("the association shall hold its first meeting,whether a regular or special meeting, within one year after the date of the association's incorporation. The board shall set the date and time of subsequent regular annual meetings to occur promptly after the anniverdary date of the first annual meeting. Annual meetings may be conducted electronically(i.e.,via the internet,intranet,or teleconference) if and to the extent permitted by law.)

I see no leeway here. Suppose the first annual meeting was in May. Then any subsequent annual meeting would have to be held in May, Each year, if there is any slippage, and there should not be without an amendment change, the following year the date would go back to May.

The reason for the wording appears to be that because the first meeting can be held at any time during the year, so no specific date can be cited. But once that date is selected and a meeting is held, it has to happen close to that date every year. I would consider that there could be holidays involved, but maybe not, so then, whenever the first date is selected, that is etched in stone and any attempt to circumvent the wording would be improper. The intent is obviously to hold the meeting close to the same date each year. Notice that the annual and Board meetings are treated differently after the first regular or annual meeting.

Just an opinion.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Why a YES / NO vote on a motion?

IMHO, it should be:

Motion to recall Susie Smith from the Board of HOA director position for reasons of: Blah, blah

Approve Abstain (circle one choice only)
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