💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

JanelleL (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Our board recently had our management company's lawyer tell us the CPI increase for 2007 to 2008 was 0.1%, and the average increase was 3.8%. Then their lawyer said we could decide which amount to use. Anyone hear of any such a thing?

I am one of 3 on a 7 person board who found this contrary to our CC&Rs, and we said so. The other 3 members voted to use the 3.8%, the president broke the tie and that was that. This just happened earlier tonight, so I am hoping to research this odd "law" as best I can.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Janelle,

I suggest you check your governing documents to see if it is a requirement to use the CPI index for increasing assessments. There is no state law addressing this. The only state law which addresses assessment increases is the planned community statute ARS 33-1803, which says, "Unless limitations in the community documents would result in a lower limit for the asessment, the association shall not impose a regular assessment that is more than 20% greater than the immediately preceding fiscal year's assessment without the approval of the majority of the members of the asociaiton." There is no like condo statute.
JanelleL (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Our documents state we use the increase in the CPI from the previous year over the current year (the 0.1% was the increase) Nowhere does it say we use the average CPI, (3.8%),nor does it state we can "Chose to use both".
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanelleL on 02/25/2009 4:21 AM
Our documents state we use the increase in the CPI from the previous year over the current year (the 0.1% was the increase) Nowhere does it say we use the average CPI, (3.8%),nor does it state we can "Chose to use both".
The 0.1% metric you specify is the unadjusted rate from December-December. However, I have been unable to locate the "average CPI, (3.8%)" figure. Do you know where that number comes from?

The publish data is here: http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid0812.pdf
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgerwilliamsW on 02/25/2009 5:07 AM
Posted By JanelleL on 02/25/2009 4:21 AM
Our documents state we use the increase in the CPI from the previous year over the current year (the 0.1% was the increase) Nowhere does it say we use the average CPI, (3.8%),nor does it state we can "Chose to use both".
The 0.1% metric you specify is the unadjusted rate from December-December. However, I have been unable to locate the "average CPI, (3.8%)" figure. Do you know where that number comes from?

The publish data is here: http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid0812.pdf
Scratch that! I found the 3.8% metric here: http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid08av.pdf

GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanelleL on 02/24/2009 10:05 PM
Our board recently had our management company's lawyer tell us the CPI increase for 2007 to 2008 was 0.1%, and the average increase was 3.8%. Then their lawyer said we could decide which amount to use. Anyone hear of any such a thing?

I am one of 3 on a 7 person board who found this contrary to our CC&Rs, and we said so. The other 3 members voted to use the 3.8%, the president broke the tie and that was that. This just happened earlier tonight, so I am hoping to research this odd "law" as best I can.


The short answer is, yes the 3.8 percent metric is acceptable. Indeed, it is the preferable number to use for this purpose. It is certainly the number I would advocate.

The 0.1% is calculated from December to December, based on data collected once each month.

The 3.8% is calculated based on the change in the annual average CPI-U from 2007 to 2008.

The difference is likely explained by a sharp increase in prices in early 2008 (due to energy prices) followed by a slight decrease in the latter months of 2008. A December-December calculation would not show the price spike in early 2008.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
George,

How does one know which table to look at and for what category? Frankly, I think it's a ridiculous method for determining at what rate the assessments should increase. What if the assn really needs a 10% increase to meet it's expenses and they're stuck with 3.5%. Or worse yet, what if the CPI is lower than last years but your expenses have increased?
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
I would like to clarify my comments. I would not, typically, advocate that a homeowners association use the CPI-U as a benchmark to adjust fees. The CPI-U is based on the price of numerous products that a homeowners association does not purchase (food, housing, clothing, etc.).

However, in this instance, given the information provided in the original post, of the two choices provided, I would advocate the 3.8% figure.

My guess is that some lawyer wrote the covenant documents restricting annual fee increases to no more than the CPI. I have seen such restrictions in condo deeds infrequently. The problem is that the lawyer had very little knowledge of the data and was not specific enough. It is another instance of the poorly worded covenant documents that plague homeowners associations.

Here is language that uses the CPI-U in a better way
    Each year on the anniversary date of this Agreement the fee will be adjusted commensurate, at a minimum, with the changes in the United States Department of Commerce, Bureau of Labor Statistics, Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers, US, City Average, All Items average from year to year using the now current base year. (hereinafter, “CPI-U”). Should such data cease to be published, then a successor index or, should no successor index be published, then an index that most closely follows the historical trends, shall be used."
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
"George":

Are you a lobbyist?
JanelleL (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you for your info and insight George.
Did you happen to find where it is written that we can "use either one".

Here is the paragraph from our CCRs (excuse typos..I am typing in the near-dark so as to not awake the hubby)

"From and after January 1 of the year immediately following the conveyance of the first townhouse to an owner other than the declarant, the board may, without a vote of membership, increase the maximum annual assessment during each fiscal year of the Association by an amount proportional to the amount of increase during the prior fiscal year in the Consumer Price Index for all urban consumers (all items)published by the United States Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics (1967=100)or in the event said index ceases to be published, by any successor index recommended as a substitute therefore by the United States Government."

Here is the problem I am talking about. In the paragraph, the "amount proportional to the amount of increase..." has nothing to do with using an "average" or any other method for what to use. The amount of increase was 0.1% Would it not be correct , then, that the ONLY figure we can use, per our CCRs, is the amount that deals with the increase?

This is where I am shaking my head in disbelief that a lawyer for the management company says to "go ahead an use either CPI amount". The lawyer has, once before, told the board to disregard a bylaw that stated no board meeting is to be held on a holiday. We had our Feb meeting on Presidents day because the lawyer said we could (???)

thanks again, in advance

GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Unless you want to delve into statistics more than I think you do, the proper number for your board of directors to use is 3.8%. That is the metric that you will see generally published. It is the number that "will go down in history" as the CPI-U increase for the calendar year 2008.

Your argument about the December-to-December metric (0.1%) is fine, if the board were making its decision on month-to-month changes--and if your fees were adjusted on a monthly basis to reflect changes in the CPI-U.

(In fact you could argue that the monthly data are also "averages" of the data collected daily, and the daily figures are also "averages" of data collected hourly.)

However, the decision that is being made by your board is on year-to-year changes (not month-to-month changes), so the proper number is 3.8%.

As far as anything written in making the choice, I know of nothing. The choice of the metric to use is a reasonable decision for the board of directors to make. You elect them and empower them to make decisions regarding the management and administration of the homeowners association. This is one of the decisions they are so empowered to make.

I would say that their decision to use 3.8% is appropriate and reasonable.

Now here is a problem with what you have transcribed from the covenants. The Consumer Price Index base is revised periodically. Today the base year is 1982-84. It is no longer 1967. This is but another example of a poorly written covenant by a lawyer that does not know what he is doing.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Janelle,

If you take a closer look at the CCR article,you will note that it says "the board MAY. . .", meaning the board is not obligated even use the CPI index in determining the rate of assessment increase. The CCR is not saying the board must do it that way, only stating they may. At least that's my interpretation.
JanelleL (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Mary-
In the CCRs where it says the board "may", means we may raise the assessments using the formula provided, or we may not raise the assessments. It does not mean we may use any other means we want to.
George-
I still don't see any Az statutes that say we can use either amount, the 0.1% or the 3.8%. My topic question was to try and get someone who could point out a web site, or cite a specific LAW that overrides our CCRs and says "go ahead and use whatever CPI you want". As our CCR's are written, "by an amount proportional to the amount of increase during the prior fiscal year " says nothing about using an average, or about using any other method to come up with other CPIs to chose from. As far as the base (1967=100), our townhouses were built in 1982, so of course the CCR's are going to use the base that was in effect at the time.

While I value the opinions I have received here, I am still waiting for anyone who can point me to the proof, the law, that will overrule our written covenant.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Janelle,

Well, I guess it's a matter of interpretation, right?

Perhaps you didn't see my response of 2/29 in which I did answer your question. I stated there is NO state law addressing this issue and gave you the statute number of the only state law which addresses increasing assessments. I can also tell you there is no Fed. law which addresses this issue. I don't know if there are any websites out there which talk about this. But, if there are the info would not be "law", only someone's opinion. I would suggest taking your attorney's opinion (that's what he's paid for!), unless you can prove he's wrong, which it appears you can't.
JanelleL (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Mary,
Thank you again for your opinion. This is exactly what I am getting at. Since there is no state law, (the only action that can override our CCR's), then the CCrs should be taken as written. Since our CCRs don't say "use whatever method of CPI you want" then we should be sticking to what our CCR's do say.
Actually, with the discussions from both you and George, I think I may have proven my point. Thank you.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Janelle,

Can you tell me who your mgmt co and attorney are. Also, are you in the Phx metro area? I'm in N. Glendale.

Thx!
JanelleL (Arizona)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Mary- I believe we are not supposed to name communities and/or management companies on here. (I'll double check then post if it is allowed)
I am in the Tucson area, unincorporated Pima County.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Janelle,

No problem. I know of only one HOA attorney in Tucson and am not familiar with any mgmt co's, so I won't be able to offer any insight anyhow.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here