rogue board president

What do your current bylaws say about Special Meetings, recalling a board member or removing an officer?

If you can't get more than 10% now, then apparently people don't think he's that bad.

With all due respect, Robert, I don't understand Susan to be saying that "if 10% don't complain"

In fact, she doesn't make any reference at all to any number of "complainers."

Her comment was almost exactly like yours, albeit with fewer words.

She mentioned that the OP should follow the bylaws on special meetings and recalling board members/officers.

Then she mentioned that if the OP can't get more than 10%, then apparently the requisite number don't feel he's that bad.

She was not, in my understanding of her statement, implying a passive position -- that fewer than 10% are "complaining."

Rather she is speaking about actively seeking out people. As you stated.

But if the OP can't obtain, through actively pursuing the prescribed methods in their documents, the minimum number required for either calling a special meeting or recalling members, then the problem is apparently not perceived by the general membership in the same way the OP is perceiving it.

Patrick:

Just a few questions to clear things up for me.

How did this person get elected to the Board?
How did he assume the position of President?

WHO voted him in????

How did HE hire a new MC??? ALONE???????

Where was the rest of the Board???

Who else serves on your Board??? What were they doing while all this was going on???

The President should not be able to dismiss and MC hire a new one and then hire an attorney to handle items no one else is informed about.

#1: IF the situation is as you suggest review your documents and look into removing him as President. Some allow the remaining Board members to vote him out of his position but not out as a Board member.

#2: IF you feel some sort of criminal action has taken place then contact your local authorities. IF as you suggest he is using association funds for legal expenses for himself that would be criminal.

#3: Review the behavior of the remaining Board members especially the officers if this has been allowed to occur then sounds to me like most if not all have been asleep at the wheel.

Hello, Thank you for taking the time to discuss this.
Firstly, we have attempted meetings and the Prop. Manager Locked The Doors
to the Community Center!!! We had to sit in the parking lot!!!! We did
send this complaint to the Dept. of Prof. Reg. regarding taking away our
amenities - actually eight complaints were sent with documents to back
them up. The DPR has dismissed all but one and is currently reviewing that
one.
Secondly, we are a group of 4800 lots of which only 2436 are built on and
a good percentage of them (25-30%) are snow birds and out of the state
during the months of elections etc.
The issue of the other board membersis this. Two avidly protest and vote
in the community's best interest, but the other two are the Pres.
brainless wonders and vote his way with no opinion. How they got voted -
they used our Civic Association to run a campaign for them! And
unfortunately, with so many absent or out-of townes, only 769 votes (of
4800!!!!) voted him in. But now to get him out we have to get over 2400
votes on recall ballots, that is more than 100% of the built lots.
We have spent over $2400 with another atorney to privately see where to
go. Due to the vast wealth of our HOA (over $1.2 mil) the "pittance" he is
wasting can't be called harming the community!!! (Over $68K spent on atty
fees that they refuse to reveal how the money was spent, even to the two
board members on our side!!! They request doc's and get whited out bills,
so that we know the amount but not what they did.
When we reported our property manager to DPR, he elected to use OUR money
to defend her!!! He hired her, pays her 50% MORE than the prev PM who had
10 yrs experience (this lady had nothing!!) and he just elected to give
her 5 weeks vaca and 160 ours per month less work hours!!! The property
manager is supposed to direct the board when they are not following
statues and by-laws, but this woman bluntly says her job is to do whatever
the pres. says without question. Who wouldn't with that kind of salary and
bene's?
So the battle continues...

Can the other good board members get a hold of the original documentation without white out and leak them to you?

Mary,
Your last post, in part.

Also, it's not uncommon for the PM to take order from the board Pres -- in fact that's the way it should be. The PM is not supposed to be running the assn, the board does (or at least a majority of the board). Also I don't know that it's the job of the PM to advise the board on state statutes, usually this is left up to the board's attorney. I'm not making excuses for the PM, just stating my opinion.

You can't have if both ways. One the one hand the PM takes his marching orders from the president, you say. On the other you say, the PM is not supposed to run the assn, it is the majority of the board.

I also take exception to your conclusion that the PM is not supposed to advise the Board on State Statutes. The PM is invited to provide council and expert advise to the Board, that is why he attends board meetings. Can you imagine our Roger not offering advise to the Board. You do not have to be a lawyer to guide the Board from hot water.

But, all this is window dressing. This poster says the PM locked the owners out of their on building. Cut this any way you want, it is not right, considerate, it is high handed and as you say the Board should (Majority)never had allowed it. How would any of us feel if we went to a Community Meeting in our Community Room and found we were denied access.

To me, this looks like the place to start to have a serious attitude adjustment to the whole mess.

From what I read the DPRB is ineffective to say the least, they are trying to change it, from what I read the changes (as oft happenes in the government)are going to add coal to the fire. And we all that live outside Florida better be watching what is going on down there. The only recourse the OP has is to go to the people in the assn. It will be a tough sell and a hard job, I would suggest they stay away from weighing what they consider illegal procedures and concentrate on just getting the association back in the hands of the members.

If you can't get the original docs from the board get a copy from the recording department of your county.

I agree with the sentiment, in theory, but keep in mind that the HOA is not a government. The board is merely tasked with administrating specific items in the CC&Rs or bylaws.

To be honest, in most HOAs, directors are merely administrative in function.

Pay bills. Collect assessments. Keep common areas maintained. Ensure CC&Rs are followed.

That's pretty much all they do.

Patricia,
I can sense your concerns and feeling of wanting to do what you instinctively feel is right. Really, as misguided as that position may be at times, it is still the only way to go and I believe your group is on the right track. Hang in there and keep digging, it is not an impossible task to right wrongs and obviously your train has slipped the track, and I would guess, from neglect, not carrying, personal agendas, egos, plain ignorance, and time. It will take a while but chip around the edges, make a score when you can and keep leaning and the pressure on. It is worth the effort (to the individual that cares, those that don't could care less.)

I also think you have real concerns about your PM and don't let him to the top of the pile. A little suggestion that seems to have an effect is to request at Board or annual meetings that the PM be excused as you want an owners only presence. You will be surprized at how this opens a meeting and you have an absolute right to address just your owners. I suppose the Board might demand a lawyer present, but who cares, you are going to do anything illegal, just discuss owners business.

Edie,
An interesting observation from a developer. I am not disagreeing with you at all, except for your conviction this process is somehow connected to our Government. But put that aside and you are just about in March step with the experienced owners and BOD members that can see the forest through the eyes of the history of the association. Even though those of us that have experienced bad management , we just can't say, all this fits all associations. I view the government of HOA's as being much less restrictive than town or city managements. The trick is to getting a few smart, honest, dedicated folks to set the tone.

It may be simplistic but I feel there should be greater understanding that all else pales when measured against the conviction of a BOD or owner that holds "the good of the association" above all else. We tend to become too complicated and diffused if we let other agendas get in the way. IMHO