Developer steal fire ins $ & leave bldg in disrepair

Started by GraceL • 27 replies • 1534 views

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GraceL (Arizona)
Posts: 9

Posted:

There were 3 fires at our condo community in 2007 and 2008. The first fire damaged a whole building. The building is still not fixed and when we questioned the developer they told us they did not receive any payment and that they are fighting with the insurance company. I found out that they did receive 2 payments on the first building but apparently divided the money amongst the 3 developers instead of repairing the building. The 2nd and 3rd building was paid too but nothing has been done to them.

Now the developers filed for bankruptcy which we owners didn't know until one of the maintenance person told me. The bankruptcy is coming up in April 2009.

Is there any thing we can do as condo owners to get the money back for the insurance and prosecute developers for stealing and fraud? I understand that the maintenance men spent much of their work hours fixing up the developers homes.

Grace

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Grace,
First off: If any individuals tell you anything about any of this, just note what is was and date it and file it away. I would not repeat anything someone told you about this issue.

Second: This is a matter for your Board to handle.
Are you a condo or Hoa? Who is on your Board? Is the developer still in control.

If the developer is still in control, you are a member of the association, and you can find any supporters: Attend a Board Meeting all together, have them note your attendance into the record. Get a spokesman to orally make your presentation and ask your questions and state your concerns. Listen and take good notes about what the response was and who made it.

Try to get a commitment to your group and see what they offer. Ask that it be made part of the minutes and motion that if you can.

Depending on your answers to above, then proceed from there. Do not attempt to do this by yourself. You need support.
If all else fails and you have to go it alone, I would get legal counsel to go to meeting with you as your representative.

These are just idea to be considered and are not meant as a map. If none of this fits, try posting again with a lot more general information about your association.

GraceL (Arizona)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Thank you for your suggestions. To make clear, the developer is the majority owner at this time so they rule the HOA. The new management company told us that the HOA was created only 3 months ago even though the developers told us they had a HOA Board meeting a year ago and no condo owners were invited. They amended the CC&Rs and raised the HOA fees at that time.

There has not been a HOA meeting since I purchased in March 2007 except for a Q&A meeting couple of weeks ago but the developers did not show. They were represented by the new property managers who knew nothing.

I will do as you suggested and get it into the minutes if they even have one but will demand that they keep records of the meeting if they don't.

I believe we can get all the condo owners together but raise money for attorney's fee. I will start working on that.

Again, thank you for your suggestions. Funny but I already feel better that you wrote. Thank you thank you thank you!!!!

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Grace,
You are really going to start to feel good when some of this bunch starts responding to your post.

In the meantime, take a look at search box, top right of this page and plug in developers or transitions or turn-over. Lots to read there, also on left in yellow , look at references provided by this site (CAN).

What you are in the middle of is fairly common, requires hard work and dedication, PATIENCE and the ability to take a little bite at a time. The better organized and professional your group is the quicker and serious the response from the developer. He is probably in some trouble from what you write and sure don't want to find himself up before a judge........IMHO. But Lord, they can be stubborn.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Grace first as Robert suggested the homeowners definitely need to get an attorney to protect your assets and file a claim with the Bankruptcy Court. More than likely the developer has hidden any assets he may have, transferred property out of his name etc. So unless it can be shown that he has committed fraud do not get your hopes up to recovering a lot of money. Since it is still under developer control, I would be in court tomorrow asking that the court appoint a receiver to protect whatever assets are still there including the bank accounts. Or ask that the owners be allowed to form a Board outside developer control to see to the day to day operations. This might include an escrow fund for the monthly payments until it can be shown that the funds are being used for the good of the community and not going into the developer's pocket.

Next were any of the damaged condos owned by someone other than the developer; are those homeowners involved in this at all? It is possible that if the building was written off as a total loss that the homeowners involved were paid off even if the developer did not rebuild. You need to check your documents and see just how they say the payouts should be disbursed.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

GraceL (Arizona)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Glenn
Thank you so much for your suggestions. What a great advice! We will immediately take care of the bankruptcy court as you suggested. We will find out if there were condo owners who lost their homes and what happened to them. I know that one of the maintenance man lost everything including his tools. The developer fired him because he asked to be reimbursed for his tools. They are suing the developers.

I sincerely appreciate all the suggestions. I realized that the problems were so close to us that we just wasn't thinking clearly. Also, some of the condo owners were scared of the developers and their employees so they stayed quiet.

Thank you. We will start implementing all the suggestions right away.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Grace,

I would suggest you contact the Dept. of Real Estate. Explain your situation and ask if there is anything they can do or any info they can provide you with regarding this developer.

BTW, where in AZ are you located? Who is the developer?

JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967

Posted:

Insurance policy payments, if any, for claims, are payable to the Named Insured, typically the individual(s) or organization(s) which pay the premiums. Knowing who the Named Insured is in this case would be helpful information. This would be found on either a Cert or on the Dec(larations) Page.

GraceL (Arizona)
Posts: 9

Posted:

John
None of us have seen the documents and are not available to us but the employee that is suing the developers said that the developers insured the condos under two names: NorthParc and NorthPark. They wouldn't pay for the man's tools and possessions because under NorthPark which the fire insurance was under showed no employees worked for NorthPark or that they were living in the condos. That's what he was told.

To answer Mary's question:
The condos are in North Phoenix, 17625 N. 7th Street, Phx 85022 and the developers are Jim and Jeff Glover and a new man, Mike. Mike was never introduced to us.

Thank you for all the support and suggestions. It's very very helpful.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Grace,

You can download copies of your CCRs from the Co Recorder's website.

http://www.maricopa.gov/Default.asp?

Just click on "recorded documents" then type "North Parc Condominium Association" in the "business name" block. The CCRs are shown under the code description "prop rstr" and the amendment filed on 3/5/08 is shown under the code description "mod rstr".

Is your assn still under the control of the developer? I ask this because of the amendment filed. I can't imagine the members agreeing to these amendments.

GraceL (Arizona)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Mary
The developers are the majority owners at this time. You are correct if we (the owners) had any say the amendments would have not passed.
I do have the CC&R and the amendments but it seems we have no control over what they do. Except that we can go directly to the Bankruptcy court and ask to take over the HOA money. Which I will look into today.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Grace,

Yes, that's the way it is while the declarant is in control. Generally they have more than one vote per unsold lot and maintain that control until they transition to the members. Until then, the members are pretty much at their mercy. However, there are rules they must abide by and they must live up to the stipulations contained in the public report. That's why I suggested contacting the R.E. dept. They may be able to provide you with some valuable info. THe developer must also abide by State law which means providing you with any docs you make a written request of or allowing you to inspect those records at his office. Refer to ARS 33-1258, association financial and other records

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary and all,
I think the advice given on this post has got to be a great help and the suggestions are all excellent.

Your post about where these documents are located is plain good old fashion hard work and some caring tossed in also. I hope that the people reading this stuff take note of how much effort goes into posting these replies. I know you are the Arizona Flash with association documents but this one just is so "to the point", it has to be mentioned. I would not want to pay for information like you posted. Must be worth at least a couple hundred bucks.

GraceL (Arizona)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Mary and Robert
Thank you for your advice. We were all so lost because we are busy working and not all of us have the money to hire an attorney. So when I found this website I was delighted. We sincerely appreciate all the imput. We have a direction to proceed now, where we were lost before.

I am starting to do the researh now. Thanks to all of you that have responded.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

You are too kind! It took me less than 5 minutes to find the info and I'm always happy to be of help. I hope Grace will keep us posted on the results of her research.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary,
Read the post above your and tell me it was no big deal. I know exactly how this lady felt and you can hear time after time on this site. A tough spot to be in, espcially when you need to go to work. Good luck to all of them.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

I, too, wish them luck in resolving this problem. I'm especially interested in this case since her s/d is almost in my back yard, so to speak.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

I say this NEARLY all in jest. Someone better warn them they better be careful who they encroach on if they should happen to slip over onto your association.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

Gracd,

See if the insurance commissioner in your state can be of any help.

GraceL (Arizona)
Posts: 9

Posted:

So far, I tried to find the bankruptcy of the developers under Pacer but they were not listed under GDC Real Estate nor Jeff or Jim Glover. I found a Jimmie Glover but it didn't look like the developer.

I haven't heard back from the Dept of RE but I will contact them again Monday.

Ellen, I will try the insurance commissioner on Monday.

Thank you so much for everyone's suggestions and comments. You can't imagine how helpful all of you have been! Sincerely, Thank You!

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

GraceL,
Google NorthParc and Nortth Park.

Anything in here of help. Probably a silly question but I sure would tuck away in a file anything that is Public info about this site. including these pages in Google. When I get a chance I will look them over but there might be some contact or name information you can use and look at rest of the Goggle search, also Wakopedia for any names you have.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Grace,

Were these fires at the North Park Village Apartments? I saw a news report on this fire while searching for North Park Village LLC, your developer's company.

GraceL (Arizona)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Mary,
No wonder I couldn't find them. I didn't know they had so many names.
The first building on fire is Bldg #25, then Bldg 24 in the laundry and don't know where the 3rd one was at.

I will check under the name you gave me. Thanks

GraceL (Arizona)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Mary, I check North Park Village LLC and still nothing shows up under the bankruptcy query under Pacer. Am I doing something wrong?

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

http://www.gdcrealestate.com/contact.php

This should be the web site of the North Parc Condos.

Open it up and see if there any any names you don't recognize.

I am not sure what you check in AZ for bankruptcys, but here you can go to County web site and plug in individuals or companies by names to view all court cases.

Also, you might want to check sheriff's office and see if they carry any filings. Bankruptcys are usually filed with clerk of court and also here in SC with Master in Equity. All sites you can access on line.

From this site I noted on top you should be able to run this Real Estate Company down.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Grace,

I checked for bankruptcy docs under North Park Village LLC but nothing came up. Sometimes it takes several weeks for docs to show up on the recorder's site. Who is Pacer? Is the North Park Village Apt complex a part of your condo assn? Were the fires also in your condo units or just the apartments?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobertR1 on 02/13/2009 12:24 PM
I say this NEARLY all in jest. Someone better warn them they better be careful who they encroach on if they should happen to slip over onto your association.

Robert,

That would be quite a long (distance-wise) encroachment. When I said Grace is in my backyard, I meant she's in the Phx metro area. Actually I'm in N. Glendale and she's in N. Central Phx; we're probably about 15 miles apart.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GraceL on 02/11/2009 5:06 PM

Now the developers filed for bankruptcy which we owners didn't know until one of the maintenance person told me. The bankruptcy is coming up in April 2009.

Grace

Grace, just because the maintenance man told you the developers were filing for bankruptcy doesn't necessarily make it true; doesn't make it false either so you need to keep checking. Maybe he meant he was told they were planning on filing in April?? If the maintenance man is ticked off over not getting his or his friend's tools paid for they could be starting rumors against the developer. Or if he approached the developer about the tools he might have told him that to shut him down; either way you need to get to the bottom of it.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

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