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BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
The management company didn't enforce the rules in our HOA. The board wants to "grandfather" in all the violations that have already occured. The violations have greatly affected the aesthetics of our comunity.The laws were in place before the violations occured, can the laws just be ignored. I can't find anything on "grandfathering" in our bylaws, and state statutes. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Barbara
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
The decision to "enforce" ByLaws is the duty of the BOD, not the PM. Sure, the PM might be part of the process, but that's not the PM's call.

Your docs should indicate whether this duty is a "shall" or a "may." If it's Shall, then your BOD is remiss. If it's May, and you and most other Members don't like the status quo, perhaps you need a new BOD.
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
Their was no BOD in place at that time. Since the BOD is in place now they don't want to go after the violations. I'm saying they can't ignore the rules. I am on the BOD and I am looking for some kind of documentation on this matter.
Barbara
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Barbara,

What kinds of violations are you talking about? Normally grandfathering takes place when a restriction is amended to be more restrictive. Anyone the new restriction applies to is grandfathered. Grandfathering should not apply to any restriction the board just doesn't want to enforce.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
It sounds to me like the board just doesn't want to do the hard work or the heavy lifting that's going to be required to maintain the integrity of their documents.

Will it be easy to go back and enforce now?

Probably not, but that's no reason to not do it.

What might be in their best interest is to make a complete list of the violations that still exist today and develop an action plan for addressing them.

If there are fences and/or sheds or other items that have been erected without prior approval, provide the residents the opportunity to file a belated plan.

Then review the plans for each and if the fences, etc., meet the minimum standards for your community, approve them.

If they don't, simply indicate what needs to be changed and allow the homeowner the opportunity to come into compliance.

If it means a hefty expenditure on behalf of the resident, work out an equitable agreement that brings them INTO compliance ultimately. Perhaps extend the time-frame for compliance, that sort of thing.

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
We are townhouses.Most of the violations have to do with the landscaping.The landscaping is not to be changed by homeowners.In a townhouse community everyone removing and adding to original landscape has made for an unattractive community
Barbara

BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
What can I say or show the president when the subject comes up again. My thought is how can you enforce any bylaws when you allowed many of them to be violated. Any law on this?
Barbara
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Then you need to do one of two things:

Either enforce the covenants. . ..

or change them to allow homeowners to do their own landscaping.

Grandfathering would be pointless for this type of violation.

It's easy to correct.

On the other hand, if the community feels like personalized frontage is more preferable than consistent landscaping, give them the opportunity to vote on it.

Otherwise, enforce.

Maintain the integrity of your documents. Either option will do that.
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
Barbara, I feel for you. When we took over from the developer the first board had NO CLUE what a document, rule or state statute was. They honestly thought this was going to just be a private little "club house" for people to live in and that they'd just wing it as they went. In other words; have their own agenda.

They allowed everyone who lived on the first floor to plant whatever they wished on the little plot of land outside their front door. (Even though there was planted ground cover throughout.) Lots of people grumbled and tried to explain that they were violating the rules by letting people do that. They were allowing some people to have "exclusive" use to common areas. Other people, on the second floor, complained that they couldn't plant anything.

The result is a mess out front. Some people have taken great pains to plant beautiful flowers....then there are a couple units in between with nothing. Others have let their areas die. It's horrible. One guy put down rubber mulch and we had a big battle with him last year to remove it.

The one thing you must do is COMMUNICATE with the owners. I would plan a meeting to discuss this very topic. I'd make certain that everyone gets a copy of the rule that states they can't do things like that. But with that rule I'd also include some information about your upcoming meeting.

You may explain that you need to strive for a "consistant" look throughout the property. You may even kick around the idea of starting a "beautification" committe, and invite some of the owners who LIKE plantings to be on the committee and submit plans to the board. If people are told they must rip out their plantings they may get hostile. But if you approach them with NEEDING their talents they may be more receptive to the idea.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnaD2 on 02/10/2009 2:26 PM
Barbara, I feel for you. When we took over from the developer the first board had NO CLUE what a document, rule or state statute was. They honestly thought this was going to just be a private little "club house" for people to live in and that they'd just wing it as they went. In other words; have their own agenda.

They allowed everyone who lived on the first floor to plant whatever they wished on the little plot of land outside their front door. (Even though there was planted ground cover throughout.) Lots of people grumbled and tried to explain that they were violating the rules by letting people do that. They were allowing some people to have "exclusive" use to common areas. Other people, on the second floor, complained that they couldn't plant anything.

The result is a mess out front. Some people have taken great pains to plant beautiful flowers....then there are a couple units in between with nothing. Others have let their areas die. It's horrible. One guy put down rubber mulch and we had a big battle with him last year to remove it.

The one thing you must do is COMMUNICATE with the owners. I would plan a meeting to discuss this very topic. I'd make certain that everyone gets a copy of the rule that states they can't do things like that. But with that rule I'd also include some information about your upcoming meeting.

You may explain that you need to strive for a "consistant" look throughout the property. You may even kick around the idea of starting a "beautification" committe, and invite some of the owners who LIKE plantings to be on the committee and submit plans to the board. If people are told they must rip out their plantings they may get hostile. But if you approach them with NEEDING their talents they may be more receptive to the idea.

I must say, you are so full of goodly ideas, I, for one, am always tickled to read your posts!

I think in the meeting that the reason WHY the covenants are like that would be helpful, as well. For example, simply repeating what you wrote at the beginning of the post would be perfect.
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
The bylaw about planting won't be changed because we never get enough owners to vote on anything. I still have a problem with the president every violation "was grandfathered in" What do I say to her when she says it again
(she likes to make up her own laws).
Barbara
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
Why thank you Michelle! Very kind words.

Barbara, I think I know the type of personality you're dealing with, with your prez. Does she understand that by being a board member in the state of Florida she is bound by the statutes and must enforce the documents and rules?

The man I spoke about with the mulch situation "reminded" us (the board) that WE can be sued for not enforcing ALL the rules, by-laws and documents. He felt he was being singled out and pointed out some other rule infractions to us. This "reminder" was part of our explaination when dealing with violators.

Have you asked your president for copies of the Board Meeting where it stated that people would be "grandfathered" in? I'd make certain this topic is on the agenda for your next meeting.

I am curious about something. Have the general membership (other owners) complained about this?
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraD6 on 02/10/2009 2:00 PM
We are townhouses.Most of the violations have to do with the landscaping.The landscaping is not to be changed by homeowners.In a townhouse community everyone removing and adding to original landscape has made for an unattractive community
Barbara

1) If the landscaping was done on the townhome owner's property or provided to them as a limited common area, I would start with a coutesy notice which quotes the restriction being violated and request the owner to take action to correct it.

2) If the landscaping is in the common area the Board can determine and act on landscaping modification actions which they determine are appropriate. The Board should never have allowed the owners to modify the landscaping; but it could be too late to ask the violators (if known) to correct their violation.

Please remember that comments posted are for information purposes only and are not legal opinions. Reference is made to the general legal notice at the bottom of this page.
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
Violation letters have been sent out for some violations, but not others. So some owners are complaining that they are being singled out. Yes,my fellow board member has asked for the documents showing things were grandfathered in. Months later she has received no documents.The president said "the board voted and everything done prior to the vote was now grandfathered in".She said it was voted on 1-2 yrs ago(she has been on the board all this time)I also wrote a letter to the other board members and management that we can be sued for not following the law. I get no response.
Barbara
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Barbara, ask to see the minutes of the meeting documenting the vote. There is no grandfathering except as allowed by the controlling documents. Or are you referring to a waiver given by the developer or an approval made by the Architectural Committee or Board?
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
We have asked to see minutes,still waiting(we asked in July). No waiver by developer or approval from ARC. A supposed board vote that made every violatons not a violation.
Barbara

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