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KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Is it possible for the homeowners to write their own covenants, given that they obtain the necessary signatures, and file with the state?

Is it possible for only a portion of the neighborhood to draft their own CCRs?

I ask because as I have posted before, my neighborhood is made up of several sections. One section is trying to be the HOA for all sections. Some sections have broken away to become their own HOAs.

My section technically has no HOA; just CCRs. The HOA trying to annex my section has obtained a simple majority of the homeowners to try to convert us into a mandatory association. I would consider collecting signatures of those who did not approve the change and establishing a separate HOA, but I am unsure if you can only pick and choose which properties you would include, or must you include all plats with a certain designation.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Kevin,
From your continuing posts about you association, I need a Philadelphia Lawyer to understand how complex it is. Anyhow, Is there a Master set Of CC&Rs or Articles of Inc? We need to know how the entire project was set up by the Developer.

NO! New CC&Rs cannot be drafted and just signed by some members. It must be presented to the entire members in that section for a vote. But we need to see what a section is according to the original documents.

You said that your section has no HOA but you do have CC&Rs. Why is there no HOA unless what you refer to is a MASTER set of CC&Rs which means that there should be a Master Association which leads all of the sub associations? Help me please.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 02/05/2009 7:45 AM

Kevin,
From your continuing posts about you association, I need a Philadelphia Lawyer to understand how complex it is. Anyhow, Is there a Master set Of CC&Rs or Articles of Inc? We need to know how the entire project was set up by the Developer.

NO! New CC&Rs cannot be drafted and just signed by some members. It must be presented to the entire members in that section for a vote. But we need to see what a section is according to the original documents.

You said that your section has no HOA but you do have CC&Rs. Why is there no HOA unless what you refer to is a MASTER set of CC&Rs which means that there should be a Master Association which leads all of the sub associations? Help me please.
That is not quite true. Covenants, conditions and restrictions do not have to have a homeowners association to be valid. They go with the land. And should they be violated, anyone with standing, such as a neighbor, can sue to force compliance,
    " It must be presented to the entire members in that section for a vote."
This statement is simply wrong if there is no association as the poster stated. There are no members. To modify covenants in such situations would require a court order.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

George,
If you have followed Kevins posts from the beginning, he has stated that they are a voluntary association and yes there are members who are split on the conversion from voluntary to mandatory. Kevin needs to clarify some of this for us but I understand that they (the members)have been split on this for quite some time.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Sure, you can establish an HOA, but it would have no powers that would be in conflict with the CCRs that govern the land.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Kevin,

I don't know that modifying your CCRs to create a mandatory assn would require a court order, as George suggests. IMO, it all depends upon state law. I know in some some states a voluntary assn can be turned into a mandatory assn by just a majority vote of the property owners; however, in some other states it requires a majority vote. To create an assn would require an amendment to your original CCRs, which are only deed restrictions.

You stated some sections in your s/d "broke away" and formed their own HOA. Who did they break away from? Is there a Master Assn that all sections must belong to? Although I would find that very strange since you say there is no HOA. Perhaps you can give us a little more info on how these sections are organized.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
. . . and some states require a 100% positive vote.

KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
There is no master association. Each section is defined in their own CC&Rs as a certain geographical region (referencing plats recorded in the county). Those original covenants state that if so desired by the homeowners, an Association can be established.

Since there is no master association, each section can establish their own HOA, but there has only been one section that has had an HOA. That is the section that is attempting to become a master association. They had changed their Articles of Incorporation stating that they have the authority over all other properties with similar Plat names. Each section is labeled *Neighborhood Name* Section *Whatever* and they changed their Articles to govern any other plat that shares the *Neighborhood Name* part.

Two entire sections had done what their covenants allowed and they established their own associations with different neighborhood names. I used the term "break away" because they once shared the name of the rest of the sections but changed it to something completely different.

The original covenants were created in 1979 and are up to expire this year. Although their is that whole lawsuit mess against the section attempting to create a mandatory association, I was wondering if there was a possibility that all the homeowners who do not wish to be part of that particular association can establish their own association by drafting their own documents. Assuming that all people who are dissatisfied with the one section would sign up for a new section, I was not sure if that would constitute 100% of the people (that is if the new governing documents were to only include the properties of those who sign).

As for this whole conversion and split problem... its been going on for about the last 5 years. It was only last year that events had culminated and more homeowners have become more concerned. Many homeowners are sort of in limbo, fearing the costs of the association versus the costs of fighting the association, and so they are sitting back and waiting... which I fear would cost them even more. I have been researching, and trying to understand better so I can maybe formulate an alternative solution.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Keep in mind that a homeowners association may be established without covenant authority. Of course, it would most likely be a voluntary, not mandatory membership association. If your covenants do not mandate an association, then no change in other's articles of incorporation can force one upon your property. There is something more going on here than you have related.

Since at least some part of this issue is already under court consideration, it is unlikely that a court would respond kindly to any action to create a competing association. I think a key step in seeking advice is to sort out and clarify the issues. You may want to get a copy of any court documents and pleadings that have been filed to date.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 02/05/2009 1:23 PM
Kevin,

I don't know that modifying your CCRs to create a mandatory assn would require a court order, as George suggests. IMO, it all depends upon state law. I know in some some states a voluntary assn can be turned into a mandatory assn by just a majority vote of the property owners; however, in some other states it requires a majority vote. To create an assn would require an amendment to your original CCRs, which are only deed restrictions.
Mary, I think you are correct. However, I have yet to find any laws in any state that related to converting a voluntary association to a mandatory one. Admittedly, my research has been cursory. Can you tell me which states have provisions to create mandatory associations? I would would like to look more carefully at the statutes and any related case law. Thanks.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgerwilliamsW on 02/06/2009 12:47 AM
Posted By MaryA1 on 02/05/2009 1:23 PM
Kevin,

I don't know that modifying your CCRs to create a mandatory assn would require a court order, as George suggests. IMO, it all depends upon state law. I know in some some states a voluntary assn can be turned into a mandatory assn by just a majority vote of the property owners; however, in some other states it requires a majority vote. To create an assn would require an amendment to your original CCRs, which are only deed restrictions.
Mary, I think you are correct. However, I have yet to find any laws in any state that related to converting a voluntary association to a mandatory one. Admittedly, my research has been cursory. Can you tell me which states have provisions to create mandatory associations? I would would like to look more carefully at the statutes and any related case law. Thanks.

George,

I don't know what the laws are in other states, but I do know AZ does not have a law addressing this issue. I heard of a case in VA where the appeals court (I believe) ruled that a 100% vote was required to change from voluntary to mandatory. I have heard there have been a few conversions here in the Phx area. The same HOA attorney was involved in all of these cases and he informed the members that only a majority vote was required to change from voluntary to mandatory. I seem to recall hearing at least one of these cases ended up in court but I don't remember hearing what the outcome was. I'm thinking the majority vote was upheld, but I may be wrong. Sorry I don't have a case number of name of the assn. All I know is that the attorney involved was Charles Maxwell, a well known HOA attorney.
LaurieL (New Jersey)
Posts: 3
Posted:
DonnaS, others,

Mine is similar to Kevin's, with different twist. All involve a group of people wanting control over their neighbors, but not having the membership support to register as an HOA or Master Deed Org.

1. Bought fee simple house 10 years ago in NJ 1800s development of 41 older houses with a clubhouse that was made available to all. Garbage and Sewer included in nominal yearly dues, with free use of clubhouse. Original Land development company went defunct.
2. Bylaws (made public in 2006, when they tried to replace them, in an effort to create a CONDO or Master Deed association). It is a 14A according to Bylaws but that changes with the weather and circumstances (Ie, when they file taxes, they have filed as HOA; when they collect money from town for roads, they do so as a common ownership property.
3. Bylaws cobbled from a combination of dissimilar deeds, 14A archaic corporate language, and Art. of Inc that were apparently meant to form a Town. Amendments were not registered and the final amendment that WAS registered purges the RIGHT of the BOD to attach RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS to Deeds.
2. Simple (deceptively innocent) Covenant placed on my deed after closing was subject to Bylaw, Rules, Etc, of _____. Disallowed stables, and other archaic items.Never received Bylaws at closing,no CC &Rs, no Master Deed, Old Map shows NO common areas, and there were no Declarations of an HOA or common housing property. Bylaws being substituted as CC&Rs.
3. Found out after closing that the dirt roads were owned by the community--so they said.
4. Fees are exorbitant for roads (they are also double taxed), and the corporation is insolvent. Many members prefer to pay into sinking ship than dissolve. Conflict to dissolve has been a trend over its entire history.
5. Discovered that BOD was filing with IRS and collecting money from town under HOA auspices.
6. Discovered (yesterday) an Indenture in Tax oFFice that shows paths and roads were bought back from a Receiver, but now seem to have a $15 a year tax fee, and on maps the Township is listed as Owner.
7. They are trying to MANDATE unlimited payments for an insolvent corporation whose COVENANTS were transferred with incomplete disclosure.
8. They just passed an AMENDMENT to be able to sue with impunity and to be entitled to get back legal fees regardless of outcome of their lawsuits.
9. I filed with title company and was turned down because of COVENANT--even though, I was never informed that I bought public roads and sewers along with my house.

Should there not have been some contractual, mutual consent at closing so that I was made aware that this Clubhouse group could place liens, MANDATE fees?

Is there a NJ regulator I can complain to about Title Company; and about this group passing Amendments to force 'dues payments and now legal payments' even though it possesses no Master Deeds, etc?

Does NJ law allow a 14A corp with unregistered Bylaws Amendments, undisclosed, unspecified, COVENANTS that include undisclosed roads ownership and that were placed on deeds contrary to the last Bylaws Amendment.?

Tried attorney general and state senators to no avail. Cannot bring myself to pay into eternity for what I believe is a fraud conspiracy that was honed by a lingering group of fanatics for over 25 years.

thanks,
LaurieL

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Laurie, did you have an attorney look over all of the documents before you signed them to explain your rights and responsibilities? Because it sounds like you need one now.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Laurie,

I agree, you need an attorney to sort out this mess!

BTW, what is a 14A corp?
LaurieL (New Jersey)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thanks for comments. Yes, I had a closing attorney--10 years ago, but Bylaws were revealed post closing, as did exact nature covenants, which was ownership of roads. Cannot blame attorney and it's past statute of limitations, anyway.

Title company turned down my initial claim. Now they are evaluating the recently revealed ROads covenant claim, since the day before this entity was touting itself as an HOA, but reversed course.

This BOD knows that this would be a very big lawsuit.

Last Amendment filed in Bylaws strike the ability for the BOD to attach restrictions or covenants but they took up the practice again in the 1980s (apparently), and went wild with it after a lawsuit in the late 90s.

Didn't find out about ROADS Covenant until the other day; then I went to Town Hall and dug up the indenture.

Amendment voted for today will allow BOD to 'sue and be sued,' and have the abiility to collect legal fees regardless of the outcome. Cannot even imagine how this is legal.

So, my position is: friends have abandoned me in the field; lawyers are too expensive for the limited knowledge they have provided. I think my only card left is that somewhere I've exposed a fraud, and the lawyers on the BOD know it--so maybe they will think twice before dragging me to court with a lien.

It's very distressing to think that an HOA can be created by cobbling pieces of a once defunct entity; with the help of a few evil magicians.

thanks again,

best,
Laurie

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