Domestic Disturbances

Started by MarcusB1 • 14 replies • 1825 views

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MarcusB1 (Maryland)
Posts: 18

Posted:

I want to know how my HOA Board should handle a domestic disturbance. A resident called me and said that her neighbors were arguing. The confrontation spilled out into the hallway of our condo development with the woman screaming. They then went back into their unit and there was a loud noise. The police were called and they banged on the door but no one answered so the police left. Is there anything the HOA Board can do? Should we have the mgt company send a letter to the couple? Please advise.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

Marcus,

A letter from the management company? I doubt it. I would pursue this with law enforcement to see why they did not handle this and if necessary contact whoever their superiors are. "The police left"..this is ridiculous.

MarcusB1 (Maryland)
Posts: 18

Posted:

I just called the non-emergency number for my county and they told me that if the police knocked and no one answered that they basically couldn't do anything unless the couple was out in the hallway when they arrived. I feel kind of bad because at one point the couple was in the hallway and it really scared the other residents. I guess there is nothing myself or the rest of board can do until it happens again in the common elements?

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarcusB1 on 02/03/2009 5:49 PM
I just called the non-emergency number for my county and they told me that if the police knocked and no one answered that they basically couldn't do anything unless the couple was out in the hallway when they arrived. I feel kind of bad because at one point the couple was in the hallway and it really scared the other residents. I guess there is nothing myself or the rest of board can do until it happens again in the common elements?

Even then, what could you actually do? In an "official" capacity as a board member?

Do any of your governing documents govern domestic disputes?

Probably not.

This is, it seems, a matter best left to the proper authorities who have the appropriate jurisdiction (and governance) of the situation.

Domestic disputes can get loud, I'm sure, and as such can possibly violate any noise restrictions you might have.

But other than that, I'm still not sure what an HOA or COA can do (or should do) in regards to domestic disputes.

On a side note, the family who lives across the street from me is an elderly couple. The man (in his late 60s, early 70s) is taking some sort of combination of heart medication.

One of those meds caused him to hallucinate and one night, about 3:00 a.m. he started shooting at "intruders," one of them, he thought, was his wife.

She ran out of the house and to her neighbor next door.

HE ran out the front door and started shooting into the street.

Of course, our house was in his direct line of fire.

Fortunately, all our bedrooms are in the back and we were unaware until the police knocked on the door to make sure everyone was okay.

Now, our next door neighbor wanted the Association to "do something" about this. . .

What we were to do, I have no idea.

Instead we let the proper authorities, the police officers and social services, to handle it.

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960

Posted:

Marcus, the next time it spills out into the common areas call 911...not the non-emergency number. Their response time will probably be a lot faster. People fighting in common areas is an emergency as they could hurt other people.

In the meantime just stay out of their way.

Michelle---you were darn lucky!!!

MarcusB1 (Maryland)
Posts: 18

Posted:

I want to clarify that the neighbor of the couple called 911 when it first happened. I called later called the non emergency number just to get guidance of what to do if it happened again.

This morning I get an email from another resident asking me what was going on because while they were leaving out for work this morning, the police had the street blocked off and was asking people if they knew the male resident who lived in the unit and if they knew about the weapons!!! This is just crazy So I don't know what is going on now.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

FWIW: While I agree that the Police should be the ones to handle this sort of situation, the Association isn't completely powerless. We recently had one home where the owners had apparently come into a large sum of money, so they bought a new home for themselves and left property in our neighborhood to their college-age son.

Over the holidays the son decided to have a bunch of loud, late-night parties, which typically included a fight breaking out in the street. The police where called and they did handle the immediate concerns, but after the second time, the neighbors on both sides also contacted the HOA We informed them that our abilities where limited, but we did start our standard enforcement process by sending the owner (the parents) a letter reminding them about the "Nuisance" clause of our CC&Rs.

Shortly after the letter went out, the father came over and packed up Jr.

Marcus - in your case this was hopefully a one-shot, and no action from the HOA is necessary. If it continues though, and assuming that you have some sort of nuisance clause, you might also consider going through your enforcement process, which hopefully also includes sending out a reminder notice. If nothing else, this will at least let them know that yes, they are having an impact on their neighbors. And if it turns out that the residents are renters, it can let the actual owner know that there is a problem.

MarcusB1 (Maryland)
Posts: 18

Posted:

DwightT: Thanks for your input. I was thinking on those same lines. We do have a Nuisance clause in our CC&Rs. If it does happen again that is the route I think we need to take.

This morning I talked to the police department and they told me that it was a domestic dispute and they came back this morning because the wife reported that the husband had a gun. They wanted to make sure that he knew the gun laws in the state of Maryland and that he had the gun put up in a safe place. But it really scared residents this morning when they were stopped in the parking lot by police asking if they knew the reisdents in that unit and if they knew of him having any weapons.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Marcus,

As a board member, I would be inclined to send a violation letter for "noise" ONLY as a very last resort, and then even reluctantly. Since this is a domestic violence issue, and one party has access to a gun, as a BOD, I would want to stay out of the fray. You do not know what the state of mind is of this couple -- either the husband or the wife. Recieving a letter from the HOA on top of visits from the P.D. may set off a storm you don't want to be in the middle of.

MarcusB1 (Maryland)
Posts: 18

Posted:

Mary: I think you are right. We had no intentions on sending anything this time, since it was the first time this has happened. But now since a weapon is involved I think it may be safe to let the law handle it and stay out of it.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Marcus,

Agreed! And you'll sleep better too.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

Dear concerned HOA member

Thank you for expressing your desire that the HOA "do something" about a criminal matter in the neighborhood. After much review of our CC&R's, the board has sided with you and the other interested members of the HOA, and found a solution. We will be hiring a 24 hour security force, of off-duty sherrifs and police officers. To ensure we have 24 by 7 coverage, we will be hiring 22 men in rotating 12 hour shifts (state laws require said officers to respond "with backup" to any incident, thus we will need 2 officers at all times. Employer law requires we provide paid vacation, sick leave, FMLA, CFLA, PCEA, and other mandated time away as well, requiring the hiring of additional personnel to cover the time away from work of the original personnel). The estimated cost of this will be approximately $3,960,000.00 per year, once Social SEcurity, Medicare, FICA, State and Federal taxes, workman's compensation, and disability/unemployment insurance is factored in.

So far, we have 4 families willing to "pitch in" to cover the cost of this solution. If we can get 4 more (3 more after you), the individual burden to your assessment should be very close to only $500,000 per year. We do accept checks, in advance, for your portion. The costs may be higher if not all families participate.

Thank you!

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Brian,

You are toooo funny! Thx for today's chuckle. :-)

KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665

Posted:

I think there are two things you can do. First, you can find resources like free counseling and then approach them out of concern for them telling them that you would hate to see things escalate to where someone goes to jail. Then tell them about the services you found.

The other thing is that if you have a noise rule, you can enforce it. But understand that doing so will likely increase the tension inside the unit and actually make things worse.

FrancescaM (Washington)
Posts: 264

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KirkW1 on 02/05/2009 8:50 PM
I think there are two things you can do. First, you can find resources like free counseling and then approach them out of concern for them telling them that you would hate to see things escalate to where someone goes to jail. Then tell them about the services you found.

The other thing is that if you have a noise rule, you can enforce it. But understand that doing so will likely increase the tension inside the unit and actually make things worse.

I had a very similiar incident. I called the local police because the apartment building next to me had a simliar situation. Two women going at it very harshly. I couldn't see anything but it did sound physical...

Telling the police that it sounded physical warrante immediate atten as the women were sreaming "I am gonna kill you ****". My call to the local police had 3 police cars arrive and they literally broke the door down as they did not know if there would be a beaten person or dead bodies on the other side.

Don't give up on the cops. They need you to report these things. I am not saying to exaagerate ( spelling) but you should really reinforce that this is NOT the first time this is happened and you are fearful for someone's well being.

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