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Collection Agencies for Florida

Started by EllenS1 • 22 replies • 1845 views

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EllenS1
Posts: 1,138
Posted:
On another thread I read about some hoas that used collection agencies and would like to have some input for Florida. Donna, are you out there? If this allowable in Florida and any other info you can give me will be appreciated.
DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posted:

Ellen,
Yup, I'm out here or actually, up here. There are no Statutes or HOA laws that make a statement on the use of collection agencies. I do know of a couple of HOAs that indeed do use them. I read a few documents which do not address the issue of how much the collection agencies charge for collection either so IMHO, I do not see where their use is against any laws in Florida. But one never knows what obscure law is lurking out there.
RobertR1
Posts: 5,115
Posted:
Ellen,
The thought just occurred to me, and you may not like it, but, I suspect if I wanted to really know how this collections business works I might just walk into a Personal Loan Company Office, one of the Buy here, pay here, car dealers, or even one of these storage business that have hundreds of these storage rooms they rent.

I know you may not find out much about HOA's there, but I bet they know how collections agents work. Might even get a new car or a different car while you look around. They are used a lot by hospitals, and their different departments. I also know some of these places "Bundle" them together and contract that way. I did hear an explanation once about how large companies deal with this stuff by using some software that romes the files and picks out past due accounts, and when the process is set, after a certain time from mail notification, they just gather them up and send them to Collections agencies. All no hands stuff.
AnnaD2
Posts: 943
Posted:
I'm wondering if Ellen is asking if it would be "better" to use a collection agency? I've read posts before that caution people about using collection agencies rather than going through an attorney.

I've also read that it may be more expensive for the association to use a collection agency... in the long run.

Ellen, I'm hoping more people will reply to your post....I'm curious about this too. But from what I remember, it may not be cost effective to go this route.
PeterB1
Posts: 257
Posted:
I'll volunteer to be the guinea pig. We are searching for a collection agency who will take our (small) business. We have maybe 4-6 fines in the $100 range.

Anyone have a name they can recommend?
DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posted:

Peter,
Make a call to an agency and ask what minimum they would suggest is worth hiring them. The small amount might be better left to simpler means of collection--like intimidating from a lawyer.
EllenS1
Posts: 1,138
Posted:
Donna,

I wanted to reply earlier but my computer went nuts...In my experience here owners are not intimidated by attorney letters or even liens, their thinking is just let the lien stay there until they sell. My thinking about using a collection agency is that it would be reflected on their credit report and FICO rating which would have an impact if they went for a car loan or whatever. I'll check with collections agencies to see what their fees would be. While their fees are probably ridiculous they may be worth it and not more than attorneys going back and forth.

Presently we have had a property in disrepair fixed by the hoa and with the repairs and all of our attorney fees amounts to over $20,000. Our attorneys say we cannot foreclose because it is homestead property. It would have been nice if we had been informed of this before spending large attorney fees. Our docs say we can foreclose for unpaid assessments. Our management company claims repairs done by the hoa is a special assessment or whatever. So there we are.

I will recheck our docs but doubt we have any recourse except to try to find any assets we can get our hands on.

Lenders could care less about escrowing for hoa assessment as they do for taxes and insurance since they have a first position. It may be time to report late payments after so X amounts are not paid to contact a collection agency so their credit report reflects unpaid assessments.
EllenS1
Posts: 1,138
Posted:
Peter,

You are so lucky. At our meeting last night I learned we have about $6,000 in late assessments in a 101 hoa. A first. If you learn of a collection agency that works with hoas please let met know at [email protected]. Good luck!
RobertB20
Posts: 39
Posted:
Donna, I have a question for you. My Board has not answered my requests under #720.303 (14) of them. It was over a 4-1/2 month period and that period of not even responding to me in anyway I even submitted to them the same request 3 times. They now ackowledge they did not respond stated that on at a Board meeting (being taped) and want to send me a letter of apolgy and show me what I requested but they say they can only locate some of the information I requested, most is missing from some of the old Board and members for the year 2007. All the information I requested is primarily contracts for thousands of dollars and information from our General Ledgers. Contracts, Bids, and sale of equipment from our club house & exercise center. This information is to be held for 7 years by the community under 720. They owe $50.00 for each day over the ten (10) days they did not respond which now is a very large sum of money. I know I can go to pre-suit mediation, then mediation and finally to court. Can I file if the Board refusesd to pay what #720. states is the penalty to me?? Should I start in Small Claims Court and if I win and they refuse to pay - what would you recomend as my next step and from there on.
RobertR1
Posts: 5,115
Posted:
You asked Donna and I am sure she will respond. I have been chasing the same rainbow you are chasing for a large number of years. After a long period of time the purpose for doing it becomes blurred, at least for me. At some point in time, right or wrong, you have to balance what you want, with what you will gain, with how will it hurt, and who will it hurt, and is it worth what ever you are going to get out of it.
It has been said many times on this Board, "If you sue the Board you sue yourself." That of course has it's worth and limitations.

Ask yourself why are you doing this. Not that I am blaming you at all, but you need to know this, and only you can answer. You have got the Boards attention, you can monitor their actions, do you believe they have reason to be worried? Sounds like it but I don't know. All this comes down to what you want to do. Donna can quote chapter and verse, push comes to shove, all this gets before a judge he/she will decide. You want damaages, you will need a lawyer, you win, you pay lawyer probably and and you help pay what judge decides to assess your HOA. Don't go into this full bore unless you are convinced you will stay to the end.

Have you thought of giving the Board (your Board) the chance to save a little face, would they be willing to have some oversite by you for some time agreed on. Can you get more of what you want by compromises with the board and insure you now have their commitment to make changes.

Now if this stuff is criminal, you need a criminal lawyer and the state should give you guidence on that.
DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posted:

RobertB,

Someone on your Board or perhaps the entire Board dropped the ball. Did you follow the procedure for viewing records? That means a written request AND the office or Board sets up a time with you for your viewing? Copies cost and were you willing to pay those costs? If you answered YES to all of these, then you do have a legitimate gripe.

Do you want to spend money for a lawyer to get involved and make this a bigger problem that what you already have or would you be willing to start new and make a gesture to get back on the right track with the Board and as to try this again..?

But I wonder what are you looking for? Fraud, conflict of interest,theft? What you have you listed is a whole lot of documents. You could make it easier on yourself by being involved either in the Budget process or being a Board member. Sometimes being on the inside will make all your questions answered by being more accessable.
DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posted:

RobertB,

I forgot to add this to help with your statement that "they owe you a whole lot of money"

From 720:303 Inspection of Records"-------b) A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association's willful failure to comply with this subsection.

{{{{The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days,}}}}} the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request.
My math adds this up to $500.00 so that would be the max. Unless your governing documents allow for a higher number, $50.00 per day is it.
RobertB20
Posts: 39
Posted:
Donna, I am attempting to have the Board follow all the By-Laws, Rules and Regulations and the DOC"S and the 720 LAW'S for HOA's in Florida passed by the legislators.
The Board is not above the LAW and if anything should follow what they as a Board represent.They leave other Board members out of the loop and it seems only a hand full of Board members, particularly the Board President is the leader of the pack. How ever under Florida 720 LAW the President has duties but is only one (1) vote on the Board.
What happens to the Board when it violates the DOC's, Rules & Regs and By Laws (NOTHING), thts wrong period.
RobertB20
Posts: 39
Posted:
Donna S, you are correct on #720.303, however I submitted 14 requests over a period of 5 months and received nothing back on each and every request. I was even told in an e-mail by the Board President at that time he was not going to give me anything period. So what is my next step, just look the other way and forget about it and let the Board do as it pleases and violate #720 or take some kind of action against them???
DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posted:

RobertB,
The response from the President was faulted and inaccurate. He is required to respond to your requests.But the question is, how far do you want to take this and how much are you willing to pay out of pocket? What you can do to straighten this out if you feel that the Board is breaking all of your bylaws and the Statutes is to start a recall or get a lawyer and force the Board to get back to doing things the correct, legal way. If you seek mediation, you still will have to start off with $250.00 for an application and will need legal representation.
RobertB20
Posts: 39
Posted:
Donna, I can first request pre-suit mediation yes at a cost to me but I have other home owners will to join. I can go to the circcit court of Palm Beach County and request a Receiver-Ship asigned by the court of the community reasons being;

Failure of the Board & members to govern the association under its Rules & Regulations, By Laws and Doc's and #720

The court will appoint a manager,lawyer,accountant to finally make the community legally correct under all which I have mentioned above.Our Board can not even locate records for the year 2007, they state they are missing from the records vault.

I can't see this Board correcting anything. They are attempting to wrong a right by committing another wrong.

Isn't it required now any new Board member must sign an affidavid, they have read and are familiar with the communites DOC's and #720????- again thank you for your time with me, your great
RobertR1
Posts: 5,115
Posted:
RobertB20,
Neither Donna or I are trying to talk you into or out of anything. You can't assume that if you post on a Board like this. But you made a telling remark, to me, that changes the complextion of your post. Your prior post didn't allude, that I saw anyway, to the amount of supoprt you have and folks willing to put their money down for something they believe in. If you have significant support from your fellow owners, and you are not out on some personal vendetta or happen to be a "right" fighter, get them together and go for it. Lots can be said about Condos and HOA's but in spots in is a hell of an example of the democratic process and what you all contemplate is jus plain democracy, small potatoes maybe, but still valid. I would suggest that for the protection of the association, you all keep the doors open to discuss and communicate withe the Board. At times we tend to forget, they are owners also.
DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posted:

Nicely put RobertR1,

I also highly suggest that before these members get too involved with the State, where they find endless pocketbooks, the members cool down and try to find resolution among themselves, even if they need a lawyer to sort things out. It would be so much less expensive and cause not nearly the hard feelings than if they ended up with mediation and with the States involvement.
RobertB20
Posts: 39
Posted:
RobertR1
Donna

Thank you for your advice. I totally understand what message you are conveying to me and I appreciate it. I do understand your not asking me to take a stand one way or the other and your advice is well respected by me and others - Thank You
DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posted:

RobertB2,

I had been on a Board that had to go to court. It was a 2-1/2 year process, $60,000 to the association and many hard feelings to the members from just 2 boneheads. But you have acknowledged that you have heard our concerns. We all wish you the best of luck with your huge task. Keep us posted.
EllenS1
Posts: 1,138
Posted:
Rpbert.

I'm a bit confused. This post started off with asking advice re an hoa using a collection agency but seems to have gotten way off point.
RobertR1
Posts: 5,115
Posted:
Ellen, You are not confused. You are right.

But we do this and it may be a good thing. I really think the current topic has been repeated many times with different players and involved some of us personally, but, as Donna, says, on reflection, the courts just don't seem to be the best choice. Sometimes it is the only choice but experience says, work it out.
But get something for your efforts that makes the association better. Who did what is only important to a select # of people and there are built in ways in the documents that are more effective and less costly than court. Anyone reading this may conclude the gain is somewhere other than the courts, think about it.
DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posted:

Ellen,
You are right, you got hijacked. Sorry!!, but I answered to that post and it got to where we are now.

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