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JosephB4 (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
In 2007 our association took a vote on whether to keep an amenity(hot tubs) or eliminate them. At that time the Park manager explained that the price to replace 17 spas would be around $335,000.00. The residents voted to keep the spas and have a $5.00 per month fee from each home owner placed in the general reserve to cover the cost of replacement along with other reserve funds. Now the board claims that the spas would cost over $850,000.00. They also claim that the earlier estimate was just a guess and the two companies that the manager had talked to about replacement, one had gone out of business and one left the state. Now the residents are being told that the vote has to be taken again and if the residents choose to keep the spas each home owner will be assessed approx $1500.00.(1) A break down of all cost of replacements was never presented before membership,(2) the board states that the vote in 2007 holds them to a guess-ta-mate cost and because of bids that were received in 2008 the first vote in 2007 is void. (3) the board will not allow an independant committee of homeowners to seek out estimates on spa replacement costs (4) the board of directors is giving the responsibility of getting bids soley to the park manager. As can be seen by many residents the board appears to have a hidden agenda of wanting to eliminate the spas. Also this is a board and manager that state the manager and his staff do not have to make public to the home owners what their salaries and benefits cost are per employee. This was an open practice before this manager was hired.

As you can see I need some direction on this matter.
JohnF10 (Missouri)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Joseph,

Our hot tub was "closed" due to the new federal requirements for compliance on the drain covers. A "part" went out on our hot tub, causing it to close for repairs, but before the repairs could be done, the new regs kicked in. Even though the board apparently knew there was a potential problem,they did not budget for the upcoming repairs, hence it is closed while the board "looks for the fund to comply" to come from somewhere else in the budget. I am learning quickly how manipulative boards can be, even if though they are useful.

John
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
The original motion can be recinded or amended. Members will have to determine if hot tubs are worth $1500. (I am assuming that this is a one-time fee)

Your annual budget given to each member at the end of the year should reveal the cost of all hired help. Insist on an itemized breakout of this category. You will be able to see the cost of the PM company. (You said PM costs have never been revealed to the "public" - I am sure you mean "to the Members.")
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Oh - and assessments should not be based on "a guess."

How did a "guess" get passed by the Members?

JosephB4 (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Yes I meant the members. The board refuses to post actual wages, rather they post everything in one lump amount ie;the total of all wages.
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
$50K a crack for new hot tubs? Sounds pretty pricey, but not having any, whadda I know? Though I am curious as to:

1. Why they suddenly(?) all need to be replaced (now or soon), rather than, say, spruced up.
2. How $5 a month, or even an assessment of $1,500 comes close to cover the costs.
3. How many Units you have and how the hot tubs are distributed.

BTW,

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A day without coffee, REAL coffee (as in the Dunkin' D brand), is a day without significance.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Joseph,
Hang in there Joseph, we are just flying around looking for a place to land, as thread progreeses it will become much more direct. First, absolutely know what your documents require about voting and legal meetings and how this is done. Ask your manager to look at minutes from the meeting that the issue was voted on, see what the motion was, see how it was reported. Do not at this point take anything for granted, document it all. Put the employee salary on back burner but make sure you enter it into meeting and get it in minutes. They get a couple friends together and plan what you want to do. Do not hide, do not be selective, welcome all that have an interest and have a townhall meeting. Go from there.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
As a member you have the right to inspect the financial transactions of the HOA. You will have to make an appointment with the treasurer and request to see the break-out of that category (staff salaries or personnel costs - or whatever name the category is)

ANY computer program can do that. Just insist that they provide the information. You also have the right to see the contract between the HOA and any company that they contact with. You can ask to see the minutes of the meeting where the contract was motioned and passed.

Make a list of what you want to see, and they should provide a time and place for you to look at the information. You may have to pay for copies, however.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Joseph,
Susan of course is right and you still need to inderstand your documents and conditions and restriction. I would guess from what you are telling us that you are going to have trouble getting information from your management, even if, as Susan says, you have the right o this information. Be warned that this reluctance to provide you with informationwill range from delaying an appointment all the way to flat out telling you no. When this happens, best be prepared to have some support, and do this as a group of concerned homeowners. IMO.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
I personally see several issues here:

1) I think that the Board is doing the right thing if the costs have changed what they claim they have. If the membership approved $350k and the real cost is $850k then the membership deserves a new vote.

2) By my calculation if $5.00 a month will cover a cost of $350K then $12.15 a month should cover the new $850k figure. (Assuming that you have the money, then you need it accelerated.)

3) Regardless of what the Board thinks, there is nothing to stop a member from getting his/her own opinion of what the cost should be. Obviously you feel strongly, start calling. When the membership gets ready to vote open your mouth and present your findings. (This won't make you a favorite of the Board, but may get you a seat there at the end of the day.)

4) You can try and make a motion from the floor to appoint a committee to study the issue further.

I personally would doubt that all of the spas went out at the same time. I would think that you could start with a few and slowly replace them all. I think also that it is a frequent fallacy that everything must be done at the same time.

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