💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ReginaldF
Posts: 5
Posted:
I am part of 16 unit association in California. Our CC&Rs were written in the seventies and does not mention anything about renting vs owner occupied. Currently the monthly dues are set exactly the same for each unit, while the size, location and value of each unit can very a lot. Right now of the 16 units three are being rented. The other 13 are owner occupied.

Can the CC&Rs be changed to set a premium for owners that decide to rent their units? Of course that assumes a vote by the members. In other words are there state or federal laws that state that this can not be done?

Reginald
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Reginald,
Oh, were it that simple. I wouldn't even venture to say if YOUR association can allow renting. Someone from CA will state his much better than I. But, let's say your documents do not have any reference to renting at all,,,,,,,,,,none.
Taking into consideration what you posted and assuming you are a condo., I would start by looking up what state statues apply, I believe it is the Davis Sterling act. Wade through that and get your feet on the ground. Next, I would take a short cut, and ask any Condo you happen to run across that you have certained allow renting and ask them. Check two or three out. This will give you a quick lesson in "how to" for your area. Any you run across that have a rental clause in their documents, ask to copy it. For me there is nothing like going to the horses mouth, any mouth. Given, there is nothing in your documents about renting, I am sure you will have many other doors open up as far as your documents are concerned.

If you have a solid BOD and can muster your entire ownership to write covenants controlling rentals, you are not going to prohibit renting. But, you can control and write covenants to restrict or control some aspects, depending on what you all decide. This is why I say, talk to some associations that are dealing with this right now. If you try to cook book it, you are going to get in trouble and time will drag on forever. Or, if you all are rich, you can hire an attorney, but one may be necessary at some point but best hold off until you have looked into all this. With a unit so small, it is hard to imagine how you all handle your business affairs, but somewhere, you are probably chartered by the state as a business. You need to know a lot more groundwork before you tackle rental problems.

Personal advice, get a couple owners to help you look into your association documents, make sure they are real and registered at the court house, search courthouse records for everything you can find about you place. Assign each owner helping a specific area that seems unclear, then come together and see what you have. In order to address your question, you must be asking from a solid knowledge base about your place. I am sure some good folks will post here chapter and verse, check the links, left on this page for documents required by the state, check the search feature top of this page for past posting about renting, and renting in CA. Not an easy job, go slow.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ReginaldF on 01/22/2009 6:32 PM
I am part of 16 unit association in California. Our CC&Rs were written in the seventies and does not mention anything about renting vs owner occupied. Currently the monthly dues are set exactly the same for each unit, while the size, location and value of each unit can very a lot. Right now of the 16 units three are being rented. The other 13 are owner occupied.

Can the CC&Rs be changed to set a premium for owners that decide to rent their units? Of course that assumes a vote by the members. In other words are there state or federal laws that state that this can not be done?

Reginald

Reginald,

I don't know about state laws that may prevent this; however your CCRs may. Check them thoroughly regarding assessments. In most instances assessments must be levied equally on all lot owners. In instances where the assessments are different it's usually because of the size of the unit. I've never heard of a set of CCRs that specify different assessments for rented units. Of course that doesn't mean it hasn't been done. Why do you think that would be fair?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Hey Mary,
I don't think the OP wants to change assessments, I think he wants to attach special condition to those that rent and collect some $$$ to offset the rental requirements the association has to provide. Also, as you say if the assessments are all the same he is probably in an HOA, but if he is in a condo, there is no way I know that he can change assessments without changing for all. The Board of course, can make changes in the documents and add clauses, but that also requires owner approval under the doc, as use say.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

What "rental requirements" does the assn provide? Frankly, I can so no good reason for requiring owners of rental property to pay a higher assessment or to pay an additional fee for simply renting their property.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Reginald,
There are no Federal laws that address premiums or special assessments on rental units or the restrictions of.

You will need to check with your County as many of the do have a special tax on rentals but that would be related to the owners tax, not the association.

To levy a special rate on any rental units would need to have an amendment to your bylaws as your current ones do not address a difference in owner occupied verses rented unit. You do not have a rental ban, therefore units may be rented, is that correct?

I would caution you on enacting such a charge. You can never tell when the situation might arise for yourself or other owners where they might be forced to rent out their units. Your association CAN charge an initial fee for processing any renter coming in and that sort of items but a monthly fee, IMHO, is not justified. Renters are occupants just like owners are and to seperate the owners of rented units is creating two classes of ownership.
ReginaldF
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you everyone for the good advice. I will read more and try to talk to a few more local people that are part of HOA's to learn what they are doing.

Of the three of the sixteen units being rented we have not had any real problems with renters. I am quite sympathetic to renters having been one much of my life. I even respect them for their wise choice at times, living here on the fault line in California, with property values dropping. My main concern is that I've been told that the assessed value of the property can drop significantly when the ratio of renters hits 25%. We have 3 of 16 now and another unit rented would make it 25%. Yes, other factors, like the economy in general are effecting the values, but if there were a way to discourage renting, or at least compensate the owner occupied people for that loss I think that it is a decent goal.

Another concern is that the character of the place will change with more renters. Our association is quiet with many of the occupants over 70. When they eventually move out or pass on, and their families rent the units to the younger immigrant crowd (this is california) (nice people of course) the association will certainly change.

On top of that I see zero interest in attending HOA meetings by those owners that rent their units. In fact one of them is in China. Another is a politician based in washington dc who I've only seen on tv.

Reginald
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Reginald, even though the occupants will change, the OWNERS are still responsible for ensuring that whoever IS in the unit is complying with ALL of the CC&Rs.

So whether it's a rentor living there, or a resident owner, it doesn't matter. You do the same enforcement either way, through the owner.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Reginald,
You are mostly right in your obesrvations and these things are a concern. Michelle is right also and the owners are responsible. Don't mean to sound as if I am judging Michelle opinion, just happen to agree with it.

You speak about the # of renters reaching 25 % and this triggers certain things to happen. I have discussed this subject for years with all kinds of people and can find no evidence of this happening. Who would mandate this property value reduction? What you may be referring to is some sort of loose regulation that some Mortgages brokers use as a cut off point beyond which that entity will not loan money for mortgages. FHA comes to mind, and this % seems to fluctuate from time to time. When I try to make sense out of it I conclude this % value could be real and effect specific properties. It is not wholesale "line in the sand" don't cross it at all. But consider this:

If you are in a condo and too many renters causes 1 homeowner to lose a sale because of this, then is that person liable, or more correctly, is the Board liable to the seller because the Board interferred with the Market Place, and restricted the sale population of your buyer, by not restricting rentals.

Lots of questions few definitive answers. IMHO, this issue has to be considered case by case. None of these HOA's or Condo are the same, they all have personalities and requirements and all are impacted one way or another by the area they in which they live. I certainly think it is possible to have two nearly identical condos side by side and one could be adversely effected by renters, in the other renters might appear to be all that holds the association together. Then you throw in term of rentals and a big mess appears.

So. it can be done through the documents, and state statutes, statutes,
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Reginald,
You are mostly right in your obesrvations and these things are a concern. Michelle is right also and the owners are responsible. Don't mean to sound as if I am judging Michelle opinion, just happen to agree with it.

You speak about the # of renters reaching 25 % and this triggers certain things to happen. I have discussed this subject for years with all kinds of people and can find no evidence of this happening. Who would mandate this property value reduction? What you may be referring to is some sort of loose regulation that some Mortgages brokers use as a cut off point beyond which that entity will not loan money for mortgages. FHA comes to mind, and this % seems to fluctuate from time to time. When I try to make sense out of it I conclude this % value could be real and effect specific properties. It is not wholesale "line in the sand" don't cross it at all. But consider this:

If you are in a condo and too many renters causes 1 homeowner to lose a sale because of this, then is that person liable, or more correctly, is the Board liable to the seller because the Board interferred with the Market Place, and restricted the sale population of your buyer, by not restricting rentals.

Lots of questions few definitive answers. IMHO, this issue has to be considered case by case. None of these HOA's or Condo are the same, they all have personalities and requirements and all are impacted one way or another by the area they in which they live. I certainly think it is possible to have two nearly identical condos side by side and one could be adversely effected by renters, in the other renters might appear to be all that holds the association together. Then you throw in term of rentals and a big mess appears.

So. it can be done through the documents, and state statutes, statutes,
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Reginald,

Instead of thinking about charging a "rental fee", IMO, the board should be thinking about adopting a rental policy. This policy informs members of certain requirements they must abide by if renting their property:

1) a copy of the rental agreement must be given to the BOD
2) rentals cannot be for less than 1 yr, 6 mos, whatever the BOD feels is best
3) a copy of the CCR restrictions and the rules must be given to the renter and they must be informed that they must abide by these restrictions/rules
4) the owners resp. to pay the assessments and uphold the restrictions/rules of the assn doesn't change because they are renting their property. Any violations committed by the renter is the resp. of the owner. If they have an agreement with renter that the renter will pay the assessments, if they become delinquent the late fee and any actions to collect will be against the owner.

Just a few off the top of my head!
MarciiaB (New Mexico)
Posts: 36
Posted:
Our HOA has the same question, Our stance is that due to the large number of rentals in our development, we're finding that when they resell, they sell for less than the owner occupied, therefore lowering everyone's property values. Rentals take more wear and tear, usually, than an owner occupied unit. We're visitin our attorney today to ask this same question. We have 30 our of 64 units being used as rentals and some have multiple, unrelated tenants. Another issue to discuss since our Covenants state these are not to be used as apartments, but are single family dwellings.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Marciia,
It will be interesting to see what you lawyer has to say.
No doubt, some associations do have some restrictions on rentals and no doubt some associations also a claiming a "fee" of some kind.

I suppose the best approach is to research if your particular association has any special rental considerations. Establish that and then plan a next step. It is going to end up as an individual association problem. A rental policy is still the best thing to establish. If your place can swing a majority vote to treat rental properties different it would have to be dealt with under the policy. I doubt you can just decree for what ever reason you have to pay X amount to the regime for wear and tear.

It can be done but you have to establish what you can do legally first.

Keep us posted, and I will do the same as we will have a "Rental Policy" on our Board agenda in the near future. The real damager a of allowing rentals is the fact you lose the solid foundation of a group of single minded homeowners. Anytime the Agenda of the Homeowners is diluted because of another primary reason to own the property, other than live in homestead property, the whole is less single minded.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
One has to be careful about the argument regarding property values and renters. If rentals are discouraged it may decrease rather than increase property values. The outcome is not clear, and the evidence is not very strong.

A prohibition on renting in current economic conditions may tend to (1) discourage investors from purchasing units thereby lowering values, (2) increase the number of vacant units on the market as owners move out which also will tend to force prices lower, and (3) force more units into foreclosure also tending to depress prices.

There is this wildly unproven notion that homeowners associations work to maintain or increase property values. The evidence comes primarily from the Community Associations Institute which has a vested interest in making such an assertion. They do not do the research with clean hands.

There is no independent and verifiable research which unambiguously supports the notion that homeowners associations sustain or increase property values. Too much of what we think is evidence is what some people want to believe, rather than fact.

It is true that some mortgage lenders are limiting their homeowner loans based on a threshold of owner-occupied/rental units in a development. At a certain threshold, these development become more like investment properties than residences.

I would advise anyone to be extremely hesitant in this economic climate to place limits on or to discourage investors or renters. You may end up with more vacant units, more units in foreclosure, and lower property values, just the opposite of what you seek.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
George,
Would you agree?

Food for thought.
It is so easy to generalize about this issue and just plain wrong to think it applies across the board. Each little condo, HOA's, etc, all present unique considerations, a wise head is needed more than printed words.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 03/05/2009 5:30 AM
George,
Would you agree?

Food for thought.
It is so easy to generalize about this issue and just plain wrong to think it applies across the board. Each little condo, HOA's, etc, all present unique considerations, a wise head is needed more than printed words.
I agree wholeheartedly. Sadly though, wisdom like common sense, is not very common.

Too many decisions are made for the wrong reasons, leading to all sorts of unintended consequences.

Were I advising an association considering limitations on rentals, I would say:

Make the decision to limit rentals based on quality of life issues, not on the basis of property values. Renters have a different sense of participation and commitment to the community than do the owners. It is entirely appropriate to want to live in a community of resident owners, not investors. Let the property values reflect the kind of community you are.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
I think the concern (fear) here is that the property owner who rents out his home has abandoned caring about the community.

The board wants reassurance that the owner is STILL connected to the complex and acknowledges on-going obligations.

Making sure that all information on the OWNER and RENTER is on file, along with copy of the rental agreement - and assurance that the renter is fully aware of ALL CCRs and rules might help.

Surely the Board can implement some kind of policies regarding owners and their renters.

P.S. Rented units don't lower property desireablity - but empty ones might.
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
George writes:

>>>There is this wildly unproven notion that homeowners associations work to maintain or increase property values. The evidence comes primarily from the Community Associations Institute which has a vested interest in making such an assertion. They do not do the research with clean hands.<<<

Gee, I thought that notion was very high on the list of most HOAs and BODs. It sure is on ours.

Whether the efforts do so is a separate issue.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here