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ScotJ (Arizona)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Our bylaws regarding a Board of Directors Quorum state "If at any meeting of the Board there shall be less than a quorum present, a majority of those present may adjourn the meeting to a time not more than 48 hours from the time the original meeting was called ...."

At the last HOA meeting the only Board member present was the president. The meeting was very well attended by residents. He said it would not be an official meeting, but residents would be allowed to talk. Residents were unhappy and wanted a new meeting ASAP. At the end of the unofficial meeting, he scheduled the next meeting four weeks later.
Is this a violation of 48 hour requirement and if so, what are the consequences?
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Not as far as I can tell.

The documents say "may."

So they are not obliged to reconvene that meeting.

It appears they took advantage of the time together to talk, albeit not conduct any official business.

The next meeting appears to be a regularly scheduled meeting, does it not, actually a re-convening of the meeting that lacked quorum?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Scot,
Frankly, who cares? You all can't get a Board quorum. How pitiful is that. Your president acted admirable. He should be supported 10% if we are getting good copy from you. He has my permission at the next meeting to drag a quorum to the meeting in chains.
Seriously, you all are in a train wreck. The bright spot, outside your president is the folks that showed for the meeting and stayed for the discussion and I wish it were possible to address each one of them. I would tell them, some one is messing with your rights, do something about it. Your group holds the power around here not a couple of Board members that won't show up for a called meeting. Don't let them dictate chaos in your lives, that is why there are such things as Boards; to provide order.
Get you train back on the track. And Good luck Scot and your president, and you concerned members.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
make that 110%
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ScotJ on 01/19/2009 6:03 PM
Our bylaws regarding a Board of Directors Quorum state "If at any meeting of the Board there shall be less than a quorum present, a majority of those present may adjourn the meeting to a time not more than 48 hours from the time the original meeting was called ...."

At the last HOA meeting the only Board member present was the president. The meeting was very well attended by residents. He said it would not be an official meeting, but residents would be allowed to talk. Residents were unhappy and wanted a new meeting ASAP. At the end of the unofficial meeting, he scheduled the next meeting four weeks later.
Is this a violation of 48 hour requirement and if so, what are the consequences?

Scot,

The way I see it, it would be impossible to comply with your bylaws and still be in compliance with state law which states a notice must be given 48 hrs b/4 the board meeting. IMO, what the bylaw is really saying is the the meeting may be adjourned until such time as a quorum is reached but not more than 48 hrs later. In other words, if the Pres felt he could muster a quorum w/i 48 hours then he may adjourn until that time. Perhaps the Pres felt this was an impossibility.

As Michele pointed out, the bylaws say "may adjourn the meeting". Perhaps the meeting was not adjourned but rather cancelled. But, either way, w/o a quorum the board cannot legally meet and conduct business. What I find strange is that the Pres didn't know a quorum would not be present until the appointed time of the meeting.

The fact that the residents were unhappy and wanted a new meeting ASAP is a moot point. It would have been a good thing for the Pres. to have informed them what the requirements of the law are.
GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
I think it is important to understand what adjourn means.

From a parliamentary perspective, to adjourn a meeting to another specific time and place means suspending a meeting, not canceling it. The adjourned meeting is, legally, a continuation of the original meeting and therefore comes under the original meeting notice.

As such, adjournment most likely, does not violate any notice requirements. Technically, the original meeting is still in progress, merely suspended. (As an aside, you may find it useful to compare adjourn to recess.)

In this case, the bylaws specifically limit the reconvened meeting to occur within 48 hours. It is also important to note that adjournment is one of the actions this board may take without a quorum present.

It seems to me that this president acted responsibly and reasonably. There was no requirement to adjourn the current meeting.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
George and Mary nailed it on the head: that rule lets the "no quorum" meeting be held in stasis (adjourned, but not cancelled) for up to 48 hours and then reconvened IF a quorum can be gathered. It would be the same meeting, and thus, the original meeting notice would cover it for purposes of compliance.

Adjourning for 4 weeks means a new notice would have to be sent, and honestly, it isn't an adjournment for that long, it's a closure and a new meeting, which is also legal, and sound like what the pres did (as long as new meeting notices are sent out about it).

It sounds to me like the pres did a fine job of walking a line without erring on either side.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Scot - please confirm whether the meeting was not held because
1) there were no officers there other than the president
or
2) there was not a quorum of Members in attendance.

(You said the meeting was "very well attended by residents")

If the meeting was adjourned and then re-scheduled just because board members were not there, that was not correct.
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 01/20/2009 10:50 AM
Scot - please confirm whether the meeting was not held because
1) there were no officers there other than the president
or
2) there was not a quorum of Members in attendance.

(You said the meeting was "very well attended by residents")

If the meeting was adjourned and then re-scheduled just because board members were not there, that was not correct.

The OP quoted the rules for a BOD meeting quorum, so I assume this was a BOD meeting with Non-BOD Membership in attendance. If so, then yes, Prez did the right thing as there was no BOD quorum.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
I also was under the impression this was a board meeting. A meeting of the members requires at least a 10 day but not more than a 50 day mailed notice.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Mary,

Our docs state that the board can set meetings without notice; however, we do post a 48 hours notice in any event.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Ellen,

AZ has an HOA open meeting law which is what I've been quoting. Guess I should have quoted the ARS number, as I usually do. :-(
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Ellen,
Are you a condo or HOA? No matter which one, the Statutes take precidence over your docs and do require a 48 hour prior notice on all meetings except an emergency meeting. Sometimes documents do not get updated as the new Statutes get enacted which might be your associations case??

From 720 under notification of meetings " 1. Notices of all board meetings must be posted in a conspicuous place in the community at least 48 hours in advance of a meeting, except in an emergency. "

From 718, "Adequate notice of all meetings, which notice shall specifically incorporate an identification of agenda items, shall be posted conspicuously on the condominium property at least 48 continuous hours preceding the meeting except in an emergency. "
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Donna,
Happy Inaugural Day.

How about(if you think ok) bring up what happens when these meeting rules and such are NOT done correctly? What does a person do and how. Is it a judgement call, sort of no harm no complain, yuk, yuk!
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Donna,

We are an HOA and thanks for your input. Shows what can happen when one relies on outdated covenants. My daughter keeps up with statutes so we can thank her for putting up the notices when we felt we weren't obligated to.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Ellen,
WOW!!! GREAT DAUGHTER. My rental association has formed a committee that meets once a month. Their job is to update all of the huge document book to at least catch up with 2008. All of the HOAs that were formed prior to the year 2000, have old documents. 2000 was when Florida wrote the Statutes for HOAS-(720) off of the 617 Not For Profit Corp Statutes. They tried to duplicate the laws during the creation of 720 but sometimes things were changed slightly and never got noticed by whoever created the associations documents. At least you are doing it correctly despite not having current wordings. Good job!
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Robert,
In my experiences, when someone points out that there is an error in how things are being done, it should be addressed. I always show documentation or at least a copy of the law or statute. Our P.M has made a few boo boos and as a Boardmember, the President was notified as the chain of command lies with him at the top. All errors should be addressed, be they rightly done or not. What the heck is the harm in checking it out? And when in error, what the heck is wrong with admitting that there is an error and it shall be corrected.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Robert,
It took me a while to remember an example of a scenerio to your question.

My newly turned over association created Rules and Regulations. Our Documents allowed the BOD to approve those R. & R.s so the Master President called for a meeting to approve those R.& R.s, posting the meeting notice 48 hours prior to the meeting.

2 hours before the meeting, the P.M somehow got a message (from who??) that according to Statutes 720, any meeting that affects the parcel use (which are rules) must have a 14 day notice. There was no choice but to go to the meeting and explained that she had made an error and could not vote on those R. & R.s. She ajourned the meeting and asked if anyone wanted to speak on any subject. It turned into an informative question and anwer session.

But if an error is realized after the fact, then it must be remideed in a proper manner, according to laws and documents. It might mean a revote or a meeting to recind a motion or whatever.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Donna,
I take your suggestions and comments in good faith, maybe some of the members would and maybe some of the board would. And you speaking to an issue with the M/c broadens the scoop, and you probably would agree the M/C could be replaced with "manager".
All good faith responses. There is a strong sentiment that some Boards feel that their acknowledged mistakes as board members only cause divisiveness in the membership. I don't think this is any secret. There is also great dependence that developers among board members (especially absentee board members) and the manager or Management Company. In time Board's lose perspective and will not show mistakes or will not acknowledge the Management is fallible and to admit this is a problem, will show they are somehow to blame. Some business operate this way, the good ones don't. So when does it become counterproductive to expose the warts?

I was most interested in your story about a miscalled Board meeting that turned into a productive neighborhood get together. A reality "Blog in person", so to speak. I think that possibility is never giving enough attention.

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