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RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
For Charles H9,

You made a cryptic remark about what to do if your State Law does not address HOA's.

It bothered me a bit that a state like Michigan would be able to cut themselves off from such a large segment of the population and it should have bothered you, if that is where your remark was directed. I looked around a little and found references to Michigan Statute that deal with HOAs and never left this main screen I am writing this on. To the left of this screen there are several links that provide extensive information about all kinds of associations concerns. One is the CAN site, they have many links to all the different states. Top of this page is a search feature, suggest you use it. I googled Michigan HOA Laws and found a bunch of links. Looked around for a few minutes and I will paste a clip here for any Michigan passer byers.

Senator Mikey Switalski tells Lori Samples to report HOA corruption to the Attorney General (If you looked at my reply, that was my first suggestion.)

- Recently I wrote to my State Rep. and Senator about the problems we Association members suffer. This is the reply I got from my State Senator. Oh yes, I have already written him back on this! - Lori Samples 2003 - Lansing, Michigan

Thank your for your recent correspondence, which raises several issues regarding condominium associations.

As you may know, the rules regarding condominium associations are largely based upon the contract among the co-owners, and it is therefore crucial for anyone who is considering the purchase of a condominium to closely review all the documents relating to the association prior to the purchase of a condo.

With regard to your comments concerning the alleged misuse of funds, there are certain State laws regarding the oversight of associations, which provide a remedy for co-owners with concerns about their association. For example, State law requires that capital repair and reserve funds be maintained for the benefit of the condominium co-owners for the maintenance of the common elements.

The law also provides that a local prosecutor and/or the Attorney General can bring charges to stop a violation of the condominium law. If you believe that the law has been violated by a board member who improperly takes from these funds, or if you believe that repair and reserve funds are not being used properly, I urge you to contact one of those officials with that information. The Condominium Act also provides that a co-owner may sue the association privately to enforce the terms of the agreement.

With regard to the lien issue; the law currently provides many ways in which a lien can be placed on someone's personal or real property (for example, a repair person or mechanic can place a lien on a home, automobile, or boat; similarly, a creditor may seize goods for non-payment). Often, consumers are not aware of such lien rights because they pay the bills and the issues do not arise.

Liens placed by associations are similar to these liens, in that the co-owner agreed to the association's right to a lien when he/she joined the association. Although there are no current bills to address this issue, should lien legislation be introduced, I will certainly keep your comments and experiences in mind as the Senate considers it.

I do hope that you will consider bringing some of the serious allegations regarding corruption to the local prosecutor or the Consumer Protection Division of the Attorney General for their consideration. Again, thank you for writing, and please do not hesitate to contact me with any future concerns.

Click here to go to Michigan State Senate Website

*********************************************
As you can read, this Senators response starts off with Condominiums and then sort of opens these restrictions up to all associations. That's my read. In any event there is plenty of state info about association and it would serve you well to check them out. Especially the remark in the letter about the Consumer Protection Division of the Attorney Generals Office. SC has a Consumer Affairs Office that looks to be the Agency for oversite of some extensive legislation on HOA's in SC.

CharlesH9 (Michigan)
Posts: 123
Posted:
Thanks Robert,

I have been to the CAN site several times and it continues to state:

Michigan does not currently have a HOA or POA act.

This is on the right side of the page. I have also been to the Michigan.gov site and searched. We are a single family detached association with an entrance to maintain and some road frontage as the only common space.

I will definately pass the attorney general suggestion along. Thank you for your replies.
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Michigan probably need legislation that extends the enforcement authority of the Attorney General to HOAs. Maryland also had condos covered but not HOAs but passed a law in 2007 extending the authority of the Attorney General's office to HOAs.
http://mlis.state.md.us/2007rs/billfile/HB0183.htm
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Good post Jeanne,
I wonder if you have a compilation of all the states that show which states do not have this extending authority?

Could you make one?

I think a central source we could send posters that are effected by this sort of thing would be a big help. I would like to know as I am in SC and I know there is some legislation being considered (and consider, and considered) for HOA's but don't know if this extending authority is in effect here. Never ran across it.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Michigan does have a condo act:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-Act-59-of-1978.pdf

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
AZ has both a condo act and a planned community act together with extensive statutes applying to nonprofit corps. Our AG with definitely NOT get involved with HOA issues. His realm is state govt and HOAs are private entities. I don't see this changing in the foreseeable future.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
HOA's in Michigan fall under the Land Sales Act, which essentially is the underpinning that allows HOA's and POA's to be created. Beyond that little is said. The only other law governing is the Non-Profit Corporations Act. Pretty much everything else is left to the governing documents (CC&R's). The Condo Act does not cover HOA's/POA's.

The best info can be found at:

http://swagman.typepad.com/poa_governance/

Although a bit confusing in finding your way around, Don covers most of the areas. He's also a periodic poster here.

Joe

Joseph West
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Community Associations Network, LLC
www.CommunityAssociations.net

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JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Robert R:
I'm familiar with Maryland Laws but not those of other states. It would be wonderful if there was a central database of the COC laws by state. Thanks for volunteering me but this is too big for one person. Probably HOATalk would be a good place to start compiling such information, Wikipedia-like. I wonder if this could be done by this site.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Jeanne,
Looks like our work is done. We tried!
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
Robert, Marilyn

I'll add the Maryland link to the Maryland Law links on the appropriate pages. If anyone else comes up with similar law for their state, I'll be happy to add those also.

Joe

Joseph West
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
Community Associations Network, LLC
www.CommunityAssociations.net

*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal
DonN (Michigan)
Posts: 357
Posted:
Joseph West is too modest. He has the most complete information on the states at Community Associations Network. Click on state info in the left column and select the state of interest.

As he indicates, please provide him up to date information which he quickly posts.

Thanks for the service, Joe.

For the Michigan folks, I have posted the applicable Michigan legislation at Michigan POAs & Legislation.

The Michigan Legislative Service Bureau has drafted legislation on CIDs/POAs but further work remains to be done by citizens interested in the legislation before seeking assignment to a committee.  We need a large citizens group to be effective with the legislature. Please contact me if you are interested in participating. Use the "Email Me" at the top left of the Michigan POAs and Legislation post.

DonN (Michigan)
Posts: 357
Posted:
JeanneK3

Thanks for the information and link to the Maryland legislation establishing authority with the Attorney General for oversight of owners associations. It really is a consumer protection issue. Usually, the AG has the authority to issue opinions which are binding until ruled otherwise by a court.

An alternative is the Administrative Law Judge for POAs as has been started in Arizona.

Both act within the legal and governmental systems, and accordingly have the capability of being successful. Both greatly reduce the cost of problem resolution for the individual owner/member.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Don,

Regarding the ALJ in AZ, the Superior Court has ruled this to be unconstitutional (state constitution)! What's interesting is that the AG submitted a brief on behalf of the plaintiff which the court disagreed with. Last I heard an appeal will not be made.
DonN (Michigan)
Posts: 357
Posted:
MaryA1,

Thanks for the info on the ALJ in Arizona. Very interesting. I hope the opinion is published on the internet so that we can understand the rationale. Administrative Law Judges exist for other issues. What makes the POA issues different?

Treating the POA member issues as consumer protection within the office of attorney general as JeanneK3 describes for Maryland should be on solid ground. The AG typically has the oversight responsibility for public-benefit nonprofit corporations. The AG can also issue legal opinions. Together, a potential for strong benefit to aggrieved owners should exist.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Don,

I think it's great that the MD AG thinks this way. HOA advocates in AZ would be dancing in the streets if our AG felt the same way.

With regard to the OAH and HOA disputes. . .

I was a part of the group that wrote the bill which evolved into the current statute. We had determined that the Office of Administrative Hearings would be the best source of providing adjudication. However, they only provide services to state agencies. Therefore, HOAs were placed under the Dept. of Fire, Building & Life Safety, but "only" for dispute resolution. In the case that was appealed to Superior Court, the assn claimed that DFBLS does not regulate HOAs, therefore, placing HOAs under them for dispute resolution is a violation of the AZ state constitution. The AG filed a brief defending the constitutionality, but the judge didn't buy it. That's it, in a nutshell. I think the case was Waugaman v Troon Village.

I've heard there will not be an appeal. I've also heard the OAH is still accepting and hearing disputes. Of course, any member who prevails may be faced with an appeal on the same grounds as the above mentioned case.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Don,

Here's a website where you can view the court case:

http://pvtgov.org/pvtgov/downloads/waugaman-unconstitutional.pdf
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Mary,
In retrospect, got any thought what you might have done if you had it to do over?

Do you think MD idea was good or how about this effort to place this under Consummer Affairs? I know you said AZ would be dancing in the streets but would the AG office agree.

Or is it better to hear disputes only at the office of the adjudicating department. Should there be a Ombudsman Office to just hear disputes?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 01/20/2009 1:07 PM
Mary,
In retrospect, got any thought what you might have done if you had it to do over?

Do you think MD idea was good or how about this effort to place this under Consummer Affairs? I know you said AZ would be dancing in the streets but would the AG office agree.

Or is it better to hear disputes only at the office of the adjudicating department. Should there be a Ombudsman Office to just hear disputes?

Well, Robert, since you asked! LOL

Going back ten years, I was working with a legislator to develop a commission similar to the Montgomery Co Common Ownership Commission. The idea never evolved into a bill -- I won't go into the details as it's a long story. At the time many of the HOA advocates were against the commission approach as they were pushing for the AG's Office to hear HOA disputes. The AG would have no part of it then and wants no part of it now. Now that the OAH has been rendered unconstitutional, some of the HOA advocates are now saying we need a commission. There was a good possibility we could have had one 10 years ago but these same people were instumental in its defeat. So go figure!!! I still like my idea of a commission designed along the same lines as the Montomery Co MD Commission. I understand Prince Wm Co, Md now has a commission too but they only provide ADR. NV has an Ombudsman and they' had nothing but problems.
RobertZ1 (Michigan)
Posts: 66
Posted:
Thank you all for posts on this subject.

Your local and state laws are only as good as the local authorities are willing to enforce them. At our Association we have tried to be as prudent and respectful as possible to local government. Explaining our Charter Documents along with local ordinance and State laws, yet when you have local authorities who are confused or just plain ignorant, of the importance of your HOA's rules and private property rights, you have to pursue your HOA rights and obligations on your own.

The costs and continued obligation to the current members, makes one wonder why there are not more ways within the state and county to resolve matters within a respectful enviroment without exceedingly costly manners.

Our HOA is now going to County government to force the hand of local officials to abide by theie own ordinances and enforce our HOA rights and responsibilities. What is required should not be fighting with the local authority to get a handful of non-members to comply with laws they knew they violated.

Thank you for the posts, wonder how many others in Michigan, wish we had more than the non-profit act to look back on along with our Charters for some help?
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
RobertZ, I have a quick question:

Are you expecting local government to enforce your HOA regulations (restrictions, CC&Rs)?

Why?

Government's role is not to enforce the regulations of a private corporation, which is what an HOA.

There may be many times where HOA regulations mirror or duplicate local ordinances or statutes, and in those cases, naturally one would expect the local enforcement agency to enforce those.

**caveat: there may be HOA statutes in some states, I realize, and I also realize that many states have spotty records in putting teeth into those statutes I just want to be clear that Robert is not expecting local authorities to enforce regulations are not also in the state, local or metro arena, also.
RobertZ1 (Michigan)
Posts: 66
Posted:
Michelle D.

My comments are to the arena of local ordinaces and laws NOT being enforced, that type of behavior makes it costly for the HOA to pursue these individuals who flaunt their abuses and violations to others (members and non-members) in the community as the HOA has no right to tell or expect you to stay off their private property or abide by the rules and regulations of the Charter Documents rules or the laws of the state and municipality.

An issue for our HOA,is that if local law enforcement would not consider our BoD having a civil dispute (between members and non-members)and not wanting to be a party to either side, then the police do not as I said, enforce our (HOA) privste property rights and remove the non-member. We (HOA) are faced with lotowners who are not paying dues able to use HOA property without the penalty of being removed as NON-MEMBERS, who will pay, if there is no enforcement of our rights?

I hope this explains my post further. Understanding that the members bear the burden of the cost of upkeep, insurance, taxes, and liability for this property.
CA3 (Michigan)
Posts: 1
Posted:
A request for snow maintenance was submitted to the Shiawassee Condo Association (Southifeld, MI) on 12/17/2007 following a heavy snow fall because no snow maintenance was granted only to one co-owner in particular, one particular co-owner who sued and prevailed. The Shiawassee Condominium Association "in writing" said "these items are co-owner responsibility. The association will take no action on them clear snow. None [snow] available at this time. Laugh. Go ahead and laugh. Laugh, laugh, laugh.

The Shiawassee Condo Association in its Spring 2009 newsletter states co-owners must carry CONDO INSURANCE. This is not stated in the bylaws and not a Michigan law. Laugh, Go ahead and laugh. Laugh, laugh, laugh.

The Shiawassee Condo association attorney, Jeffrey Vollmer (P62728) associated with Wegner and Associates, P.C. (St. Clair Shores, MI) in his November 15, 2010 correspondence states the Shiawassee Condo Assoc on November 02, 2010 foreclosed on Unit 108 addressed at 25340 Shiawassee and purchased it. The Shiawassee Condo Assoc on November 02, 2010 did not purchase the mortgage debt and did not purchase Unit 108. This is a direct violation of Michigan law statues MCL 559.101 and MCL 600.3204 and amounts to FORECLOSURE FRAUD, a matter of extreme seriousness. This was reported to the Michigan Attorney General, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in Detroit and the Michigan Attorney Grievance Commission with documents "iron clad proof" of the November 02, 2010 foreclosure action.

The Michigan law statue MCL 559.101 under the Michigan Condo Act (1978) gives condominium liens "superior priority" EXCEPT first mortgages and tax liens. This requires Michigan condominium associations to pay off any first mortgage and/or tax liens BEFORE foreclosure. Also, the party foreclosing a mortgage in Michigan must own the mortgage debt if there is one. This is a Michigan law statue, MCL 600.3204. The Shiawassee Condo Association on November 02, 2010 did not own the mortgage debt attached to Unit 108 and did not own the right to foreclose. This law firm, Wegner and Associates, P.C. sad to say specializes in condominium law.

It is professional misconduct for a lawyer [Jeffrey Vollmer] to violate or attempt to violate the Rules of Professional Conduct, knowingly assist or induce others to do so through the acts of others. Reading from the Michigan Rules of professional Conduct 8.4 (a). It is professional misconduct for a lawyer to engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, misrepretation, or violation of a criminal law, where such conduct reflects adversely on the lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness, or fitness as a lawyer. Reading from the Michigan Rules of professional Conduct, Rule 8.4 (b).

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