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GeorgerwilliamsW (Indiana)
Posts: 975
Posted:
I am not one to parse words. Instead, I follow the wisdom of the courts in applying a "reasonable person" argument of interpretation to the vast majority of disputes about intended meaning.

But there is a subtle difference in law regarding the use of shall and will that the legal profession has fought over since--at least--the mid-nineteenth century and wishes would go away. There is even a story (perhaps apocryphal) that General Eisenhower once fired an aid during World War II for not knowing the distinction between shall and will.

It pains me when a poster in another thread makes an unqualified statement, "however use of the word "shall" means a certain action must be undertaken (the board cannot decide whether or not to do it)", that is patently wrong in law. I wish posters here would more carefully research unsubstantiated statements or cite references, especially when discussing issues with legal ramifications. It is misleading at best, and sometimes dangerous to spew out either "common knowledge" or personal opinion without a sound basis. At the very least, it may have the effect of leading people down the wrong path in their thinking, if not action.

I am going to put on my legal professor's motor board and try to explain the difference. (If you want to explore it further, take a look at Fowlers, The King's English at your local library. A quick and dirty search list of legal citations in Lexus is about 32 pages, and I don't, sadly, have the inclination to find one that best makes the case right now.)

In general legal terms, shall is interpreted by the courts as a command, meaning that the acting body or individual is to follow standard procedures regarding hearing and votes and other due diligence before acting. As such, it gives the actor a certain measure of discretion should the process uncover information that may indicate the action is illegal or undesirable.

For instance, in relating to an action by the board of directors of a homeowners association the word shall would most likely enable (were the action adjudicated) the board discretion in determining if a contemplated action would be in the best interests of the members, regardless of the covenants or rules or court order. However, a contrary decision to the court's holding would have to be, most likely, justified to the court.

On the other hand, the word will is understood, by court precedents, to be a requirement that allows the actors no degrees of freedom. Regardless of the outcome, regardless of the consequences, regardless of additional facts, the actor has no discretion in the matter. It is more than a mandate.

Example: if a court said, "the association shall replace a dripping water pipe immediately," the order would not take precedence over another pipe that just broke completely, spewing out thousands of gallons of water by the hour. However, if the court said "the association will replace . . ." the association has no discretion; it must replace the leaking pipe before it replaces the much more damaged broken pipe.

The problem here with "common knowledge" is usage. The statements, "he will" and "he wills" have different meanings. However, when the verb conjugated in the first person (singular and plural), the meaning is utterly unclear, "I will" and "we will" is written the same in both meanings.

The distinction between the conditional tenses of each word help make the distinction clearer: would and should. Should (properly used) is a conditional implying a consequence based on discretion by the actor; would (properly used) implies a simple consequence without the discretion.

Now, before people go over the top here, this distinction between shall and will is also impacted by some contradictory common usage. In some usage apart from legal use, shall implies that the "will" of the actor is not taken into account. This is why lawyers and courts want this distinction to go away. Nevertheless, a skillful lawyer will use the the distinction to great advantage to a judge who understands the role of precedent.

The problem is that lawyers and legislators love the word shall, it sounds so much more high falootin' and impressive. They simply don't know or understand the long-standing distinction and lack of clear usage. Indeed, the Indiana Legislative Service Agency has "banned" (to the extent that it can) the word shall in drafting legislation. If the proposed statute is intended to allow the actor discretion, then the discretion is best spelled out in specific terms. Otherwise, the Agency uses the word will.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
blah blah blah.

I was simply making a distinction between SHALL and MAY.

Thanks, Dad.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
George, excellent post. I have had a problem with the word "notwithstanding" used all over FL Statutes. I was told that in legal context it really means irrespective. In other words, in those instances the laws override governing docs.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Susanna,
Yeah, that "notwithstanding" is just a word to drive the explaination of wording in documents, off course and nuts. My documents here in Tennessee do not use it once. I wonder why it is so common in Fl.? Irrespective is a better choice.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Nice to know that all those pesky "shall's" in our CC&R's are merely suggestions which the BOD can ignore if they have a good reason to.

The Association shall maintain.
The Homeowner's shall vote to allow special assessments
The homeowner shall have the right to a fair hearing.
A Trustee shall receive no compensation.

According to http://www.bestonlinedictionary.com/legal-terms-dictionary/law-dictionary-s/Shall%20definition.htm the definition of shall is: v. 1) an imperative command as in "you shall not kill." 2) in some statutes, "shall" is a direction but does not mean mandatory, depending on the context.

While I am not a legal scholar by any means nor do I claim to be, IMHO the word shall as used in most Association documents is indeed a mandate as the context gives no wiggle room.

To prevent the things George complains about: It pains me when a poster in another thread makes an unqualified statement, "however use of the word "shall" means a certain action must be undertaken (the board cannot decide whether or not to do it)", that is patently wrong in law. I wish posters here would more carefully research unsubstantiated statements or cite references, especially when discussing issues with legal ramifications. It is misleading at best, and sometimes dangerous to spew out either "common knowledge" or personal opinion without a sound basis. At the very least, it may have the effect of leading people down the wrong path in their thinking, if not action.
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/65826/view/topic/Default.aspx
Perhaps everyone should take a vow to start every one of their posts with the phrase "It is my opinion." Because obviously the disclaimers at the bottom of the pages that everyone is offering their opinion[/] is not enough. Maybe HOATalk could add a macro to insert the phrase automatically in every post?

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
George,

You could have come right out and named me as the culprit who made the "unqualified statement". I have broad shoulders!

Frankly, I've never seen a state statute use the word "will" but they do use the word "shall". I firmly believe that in so doing they are intending to mean that whatever action is being addressed "must" be undertaken as outlined in the statute. Their intent is not to allow the board to decide whether or not they want to do a certain thing. If it were they would use the word "may". I notice in your disertation you neglected to indicate what the legal meaning of "may" is. The discussion centered on the meaning of "shall" and "may", not "shall and "will". I stand by my interpretation regardless of your "legal" mumbo-jumbo. You can advise boards that they may "legally" decide whether or not they want to perform a certain action that the law says they "shall" do. However, IMO, you will be promoting a lot of legal actions against a board for violating the law. But, of course, you're an attorney and most just love legal actions! Ka-ching, ka-ching. . . .

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Glen,

As I'm sure you are aware, I do use "IMO" quite a bit. However, in this instance I did not because I didn't feel I was just giving an "opinion". I firmly believe that what I said is correct. As you state, "IMHO the word shall as used in most Association documents is indeed a mandate as the context gives no wiggle room." That also applies to state statutes that use the word "shall". I've never seen the word "must" used; only "shall" and "may". George didn't bother to elaborate on "may".

Yeah, I guess I'd better be more careful to use "IMO" at the beginning of every sentence I write. BTW, how many times has George prefaced his comments with "IMO"???
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
After reading this, I will continue to treat the words as interchangeable. And do the best I can do in the position I am in. The way I see it, if I end up in court because of it, then I have lost regardless of the outcome. At any rate, I hope that if the day comes then it is because of the actions of someone who is seen as unreasonable by the community at large.

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