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JanetE1 (California)
Posts: 1
Posted:
I am on the landscape/architectural committee of a 34 unit condo association in California. We have buildings with 2 and 3 stories which have balconies. There are currently no guidelines in our CC&R's or Rules and Regs regarding what can be on the balconies. Currently, we have some homeowners and/or renters who have balconies full of plants, patio furniture, BBQ's. We are concerned not only for the weight on the balconies, but the fire hazard of BBQ's being up against the buildings with lots of wood. Any advice would be helpful!
JohnK3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 967
Posted:
Have your committee propose some guidelines and have the BOD enact them via Resolution? I doubt you'd need a ByLaw Amendment, but check your docs just in case.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Janet, with regard to the BBQ grills you can check with the local government or fire department. Often there are ordinances restricting them.
NancyL4 (California)
Posts: 60
Posted:
Here's the rules for California from the executive council of homeowners website.

Barbeque Ban
In 2007, California updated its Fire Code and adopted portions of the 2006 International Fire Code, including sections 308.3.1 and 308.3.1.1. Those sections effectively ban the use of open-flame cooking devices on combustible decks. This ban became operative on January 1st, 2008. Neither the International Fire Code nor the 2007 California Fire Code are available online, but you will find copies in most libraries. The sections read as follows:

308.3.1 Open-flame cooking devices. Charcoal burners and other open-flame cooking devices shall not be operated on combustible balconies or within 10 feet (3048 mm) of combustible construction.

Exceptions:
1. One- and two-family dwellings.
2. Where buildings, balconies and decks are protected by an automatic sprinkler system.

308.3.1.1 Liquefied-petroleum-gas-fueled cooking devices. LP-gas burners having an LP-gas container with a water capacity greater than 2.5 pounds [nominal 1 pound (0.454 kg) LP-gas capacity] shall not be located on combustible balconies or within 10 feet (3048 mm) of combustible construction.

Exception: One- and two-family dwellings.

California associations may want to consider modifying their rules to conform to the updated code. In addition, association should contact their insurance agent to find out what impact, if any, this will have on association insurance coverage. Watch for more information about this subject in an upcoming issue of the ECHO Journal.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Some fire codes restrict anything that can be flameable with a footage line such as 10 feet from any structure. I would never want any BBQ on any balcony because of the smoke intrusion into other units. It happens no matter how careful the user wants to be. But to restrict tables, plants and things that are basically for making an outdoor living space for the owner, IMHO is just restrictions that are a little to much. Control of the items is fine but non allowance should be beyond the HOAs authority . That is why you need clear written restrictions in your CC&Rs.
AnneH2 (Florida)
Posts: 82
Posted:
I agree with all- use the power of local government to address the grill issue. As for wood that is stacked up, that attracts pests, so could use that approach. Could affect termite bonds, etc.

I have a happy ending to share related to crap on balconies. At a condo, a renter put up steel industrial shelving- two 6 foot high shelves- and loaded them with bins. It looked awful. I spoke to the property owner and while speaking, e-mailed him a pix of the balcony. I was very nice, told him that I wanted to make him aware of it, as he was out of state and so hadn't seen the balcony. He was concerned that he might lose the tenant over this. The guy was an engineer and paid promptly. I joked that, as the guy was an engineer, it probably looked fine to him, as his crap was, at least, neat and tidy! Within a few days, the shelving was down and I heard from another resident that the guy said he was upset at first, but that he and his wife had dinner on their balcony for the first time since they moved in and they were really glad that he was made to remove the shelving.

Maybe we need a SUCCESS! thread to share stories like these, if only to serve as a reminder that win-wins are possible.

KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
Personally, I would be very slow to address plants on the balcony. And I would recommend leaving the weight issue off the table as you could end up in a very costly situation when someone sues because of the hazard of balcony that isn't safe based on your weight assumptions.

As others have said, I would get the fire department involved on the grills. A good chance they will address other materials on the balconies for you as well.

Outside of that, you will need a clear guideline of what is and isn't allowed. And I would suggest that you put it to a community vote as well. Then if passed, I would resign and let someone else take on that headache as you will still take the heat while those voting for the measure turn on you when they realize you meant their neighbor. (Or maybe they knew and and want you to do something but also want to appear to be on the neighbor's side.)
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
To all,
Will someone if California, explain to me, the statutes that has authority over Condos, what kind of property in the CC&R's, balconies fall under.

It almost has to be Limited Common Property. They do not belong to the individual, they belong to the whole. The association. Look up property description in your Master deed. Limited common property is subject to what ever rules the Board wants to set, as long as all the same. As far as Grills of any kind on "Limited common property", this is controlled by your local ordinances set by Fire Department, and woe to those associations that do not abide. Local Fire Codes are set by National Fire Associations, for the most part.

In SC, and I know many other states on the East Coast, the situation you are describing is rare indeed. Don't you have your insurance agents walk the property? I bet in your insurance policies, there are descriptions of what is permitted and what is not, and since I recently went through an investigation of Fire Codes concerning open flame fires, I can tell you you have not pressed the right buttons yet. Start with the National Fire Academy in PA. Big government site and thousands of links to inquire about specific issues.

Something broken in this Condo management protocols, something broken with the functions of the BOD, something broken regarding insurance, something broken with the individual owners standing around waiting for the place to catch on fire.

Best you all wake up and take the wheel and get your ship righted.
But, what do I know. Just IMHO.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
If not already addressed in the CC&Rs then it would be a simple matter to pass a rule stating what items are allowed on decks and balconies.

ADOPTING AND AMENDING RULES IN CALIFORNIA

"Operating Rules" are defined as any regulation adopted by the board of directors that applies to the management and operation of the association or the conduct of its business and affairs. Civil Code ยง1357.100 This includes pets, parking, use of the common areas, member discipline, architectural standards, election procedures, any schedule of monetary penalties, etc. Civil Code ยง1357.120(a)

Excluded are decisions relating to common area maintenance, a specific matter (as opposed to a general policy), assessment amounts, a nondiscretionary rule change required by law, or a rule that repeats existing law or the Association's Bylaws, CC&Rs or Articles of Incorporation. Civil Code ยง1357.120(b)

Enforceability. Civil Code ยง1357.110 An operating rule is enforceable if:

* in writing,
* within the board's authority,
* consistent with governing law and the associations governing documents,
* adopted in good faith, and
* reasonable

Notice of Proposed Change. At least 30 days before a vote on adopting or amending an operating rule, the board must mail a copy of the proposed change to the members, along with an explanation of their purpose and effect.

Adoption in Open Meeting. After the 30-day period, the board may adopt the rules at a duly noticed open meeting of the board, taking into consideration of any comments made by association members. Civil Code ยง1357.130

Notice of Adoption. Within 15 days of voting on the rules, the board must notify the membership of the results of the vote. Civil Code ยง1357.130

Member Veto of Rule Change. Members owning 5% or more of the separate interests may call a special meeting of the members to reverse a rule change. Civil Code ยง1357.140(a) However, The written request may not be delivered more than 30 days after the members of the association are notified of the rule change. Civil Code ยง1357.140(b) The board must give notice of a special meeting and send out ballots pursuant to Civil Code ยง1363.03. The rule change may be reversed by the affirmative vote of a majority of the votes represented and voting at a duly held meeting at which a quorum is present. Civil Code ยง1357.140(c) The board must notify the members of the results of this vote within 15 days. If an operating rule is reversed, it cannot be re-adopted by the board for at least one year. However, the board may vote on other operating rules covering the same subject. Civil Code ยง1357.140(f)&(g)

Emergency Rule Change. If the board determines that an immediate rule change is required to address an imminent threat to public health or safety, or an imminent risk of substantial economic loss to the association, it may make an emergency rule change; and no notice is required. An emergency rule change is effective for 120 days. Civil Code ยง1357.130(d)

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