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LisaH4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
New to being the Vice President of a small HOA of 24 townhomes, the President is telling me I can't fine people for violations because it doesn't say "you will be fined" in the bylaws. Is this not ridiculous, why would there be bylaws if there were no way to enforce them? Please give me your input. Thanks.
HeatherJ1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 89
Posted:
Lisa,

I'm also in SC. Normally, your HOA documents will specify fines. But, if there is no wording there, SC law does allow for fines if the process is followed correctly. I had the same issue as my bylaws also do not have any wording for fines.

HOWEVER, there is currently a bill up for approval in SC that will change all of this and fines will NOT be allowed UNLESS they are already in the governing docs.

"Section 27-30-520. Subject to the provisions of the articles of incorporation or the declaration and the declarant's rights therein, the association may:

(12) After notice and an opportunity to be heard, impose reasonable fines or suspend privileges or services provided by the association, except rights of access to lots, for reasonable periods for violations of the declaration, bylaws, and rules and regulations of the association"

So, it appears that (12) above does allow for fines... after a hearing has been allowed.

Link to current bill:http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:GoxdrVJjar8J:www.scstatehouse.gov/sess115_2003-2004/bills/4596.doc+Section+27-30-520&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Link to proposed new bill: http://www.scstatehouse.gov/cgi-bin/query.exe?first=DOC&querytext=Section%2027%2052%20180&category=Legislation&session=118&c4352656&result_pos=0&keyval=1180030
HeatherJ1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 89
Posted:
I meant to quote Bruce on his response to my topic on this months ago as it clarifies my above info:

"so seems to me that the board could send a letter notifying an owner of its INTENT to impose a fine (that would be the required notice) and setting the date for a hearing. If the owner fails to show up for the hearing, the fine could then be imposed."

http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/view/topic/forumid/1/postid/62452/Default.aspx

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Lisa,

Have you looked in the declaration (CCRs) as this is where I would think that would be addressed -- in the section titled "enforcement". It should also be stated what actions the board may take to collect delinquent assesments.

However, if your gov docs do not give the board the authority to fine and state statute doesn't either, then NO the board cannot fine the members.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Lisa, first look to see if your Declaration of CC&Rs allows for fines and for establishing Rules and Regulations. If they do then the HOA is allowed to fine. But first Rules and Regualtions (often called Policies and Procedures) should be passed and distributed to all owners. After that if there is a violation we first send a courtesy notice to owner (and copy to renter if there is one) on the restriction being violated and request correction. If not corrected we send a violation notice to the owner (goes to owner even if violation is by a renter) stating the violation, a time frame for correction and the amount of the fine which will be levied against the property. They are advised that they have the right to request a Hearing prior to being fined. The right to a Hearing and the process are described in the Bylaws or in Rules and Regulations. If no request for a Hearing is made or if found guilty at the Hearing the fine is levied.

Also, in the Rules consider esculating the fine when not corrected by the deadline or for any repeat offense within 12 months. If the violation is not corrected the HOA will need to go to court to seek an injunction to correct the problem. Your CC&Rs should allow for all costs involved to be levied against the property.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Lisa, first look to see if your Declaration of CC&Rs allows for fines and for establishing Rules and Regulations. If they do then the HOA is allowed to fine. But first Rules and Regualtions (often called Policies and Procedures) should be passed and distributed to all owners. After that if there is a violation we first send a courtesy notice to owner (and copy to renter if there is one) on the restriction being violated and request correction. If not corrected we send a violation notice to the owner (goes to owner even if violation is by a renter) stating the violation, a time frame for correction and the amount of the fine which will be levied against the property. They are advised that they have the right to request a Hearing prior to being fined. The right to a Hearing and the process are described in the Bylaws or in Rules and Regulations. If no request for a Hearing is made or if found guilty at the Hearing the fine is levied.

Also, in the Rules consider esculating the fine when not corrected by the deadline or for any repeat offense within 12 months. If the violation is not corrected the HOA will need to go to court to seek an injunction to correct the problem. Your CC&Rs should allow for all costs involved to be levied against the property.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Keep in mind that the word "fine" may not actually be in there.

It may be worded in such a way that means the same thing, however.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleD on 01/14/2009 3:00 PM
Keep in mind that the word "fine" may not actually be in there.

It may be worded in such a way that means the same thing, however.


Penalty is another word often used.
CaroleL (South Carolina)
Posts: 11
Posted:
I am also in SC and a member of my HOA's board of directors. The letters that we are sending to residents who have violated the Rules and Regulations or the Covenants, request correcting the issue before imposing any fines. While we do not state in the letter that the homeowner has a hearing, we do state the following:
"...if you have extenuating circumstances which prevent observance of the terms of the legal covenants, rules/regulations for the issues listed above, we are requesting you contact the management company. Once notified, every attempt will be made by the Board to meet with you and discuss those concerns..."

Is this sufficent or do we explicity have to schedule a hearing and inform them of the date and time of the hearing?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Carol,

Check your state laws if your gov docs are silent on this. In AZ state HOA law requires a member to be informed that they have a right to a dispute hearing with the board before fines can be imposed.

I would suggest changing the wording in your letter to:

"If you dispute the CCR violation you are being noticed for, please contact the management company at (state address and phone number) to set up a hearing with the BOD. If you do not wish to meet with the BOD and you do not cure this violation within XXX days of receipt of this letter, please be advised that a fine of $$$ will be levied."

IMO, by saying "if you have extenuating circumstances which prevent blah, blah, blah" gives me the impression that the BOD is apologizing for noticing a violation. I don't believe in dancing around the issue -- get right to the point and spell out exactly what is going to happen.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
The original post was that a President of an association in SC has declared that the association can not fine and owner for violations of some covenant or rule or whatever. I find this statement to be out of line and a bad postion for the President assume. But, the president does not speak for the Board, the President is only a member of the Board with one vote. The President serves the Board, not the other way around.

If this issue becomes a point of contension, don't expext the state of SC to solve it for you. They will direct that is a problem that must be resolved by the association. So, I would say there is no problem given the circumstanes as posted. If the documents provide for a system of events that eventually result in a fine for non-payment, then enforce the covenants or rules or whatever. Case solved, except for a short lesson to the President to stick to the facts. The president should know the job, not all will, often the M/C serves as a guiding force and will make recommendations, often a Board member will set the record straight, often a home owner will detail proper procedures to the Board.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 01/27/2010 1:28 PM
But, the president does not speak for the Board, the President is only a member of the Board with one vote. The President serves the Board, not the other way around.

^ ^ ^ ^ This. . .support 100%.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

I agree with what you say; however. . .

It all depends upon what the gov. docs say. The Pres may be right in his assertion that fines cannot be imposed. The OP mentioned the bylaws, but normally this is not where this issue would be noted. It was suggested to the OP to look in the CCRs to see if fines/penalties are allowed. We never heard back from the OP so we don't know what happened.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
I agree, it is what the documents say. However any reference in the document that gives authority to fine, is just that; the documents are the authority so no matter what the president decrees, it does not matter what her statement is. Now if the president decrees: "In accordence with our documents, the association has the authority to or not to fine members, blah, blah."

But that was not the question as asked by the original post. Her statement was, "the President was dictating what could or could not be done."
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Very true. And,the Pres. could have been right! The OP did not say what the docs say so I don't automatically side with her. Guess you can call me a skeptic. But I like to look at all sides of an issue before finding fault with someone.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Mary, Your:
"Very true. And,the Pres. could have been right"
Not likely in todays' climate. The President is never right. I don't care who the president is.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa..........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

What "Pres" are you talking about?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Mary,
I know nothing of what you speak, or what I say, or will explain.
Nor do I know nothing, I am the Sgt Schultz of Hogans Hero's........I know noooooothiiiiiiinnnnnnnnggggggggg, and much prefer it that way..............maybe.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Vedy in--te--lesting. . .and schs--tupid! (from Laugh-in)

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