Annual meetings

How do annual members' meetings differ from board meetings? At board meetings after the agenda is taken care of anyone attending can speak for three minutes but only after the agenda has been addressed. We have a disgruntled homeowner who has promised to make our annual meeting a messy, embarrassing event. While we don't want to take away his right to speak what are the constraints on members addressing the owners at an annual meeting?

Ellen, only Board members are allowed to make motions and vote at Board meetings. Members may make motions and vote at the Annual members meeting and at special members meeting (some HOAs require they make their motion in advance and be on the agenda).

The constraint on a member addressing the owners at an annual meeting are:
1) being recognized and given the floor by the Chair;
2) allowed to make a motion;
3) if the motion is seconded, the Chair should allow them to speak first during discussion on their motion; and
4) the time can be limited for them to have the floor to discuss their motion and they do not have to be recognized again.

This parlimentary procedure can constrain them to about a minute to make their motion and 3 minutes (or less) to discuss their motion. If they continue to talk beyond the time allowed the Chair can stop them.

“At the start of a Members meeting, a recall meeting or a special meeting the Chair can be selected from the floor with the required majority.”

Isn’t that a bit risky, Robert? Wouldn’t you want to assure that the moderator knew how to run a meeting? If you failed to in that regard, the meeting could quickly run amuck. Our PM runs our annual HOA meeting and does a good job. I would not, on the other hand, want to have the PM run board meetings. The difference here is that the PM gets their direction from the BOD not (non-BOD) HOA members.

You are correct Robert. The annual members meeting and special members meetings are not Board meetings. The Chair is the person currently presiding over the meeting. Usually that is the President's job. However, on occassion the President (or when they are absent the VP) needs to vacate the Chair. An example of when there needs to be a motion to appoint someone other than specified in the By-laws to Chair a members meeting is when it is a special members meeting to consider removal of all officers. Then it is prudent to make a motion to have xxxx (a predetermined competent person, such as the managing agent or an attorney) available for the members to vote on to Chair such a meeting.

Sussana,

I live in a townhome community.

BOD meetings are open to any homeowner. Annual meetings are held for all homeowners who wish to attend. The President ( Not knowing your position) presides over any meeting. And may grant a given homeowner limited time to speak. And dpending on your situation, may request a homeowner to leave.

Just a suggestion, when you put your Annual meeting together and announce date, time and place, make it very clear that any topic or issue be presented to the BOD in writting prior to the meeting so it may be placed on the agena. Otherwise, so sad, too bad.

As our attorney once told me, sometimes you have to call their bluff! Having had to deal with it, stand firm. Others should not have to be subject to someome who I am going to guess did not read the documents he signed up for or simply just wants to obtain "their 15 mins of fame".

Robert,
The Florida Statutes state clearly who and how recalls are done. Below is the start and answers your question.

720;303-10: Recalls
2. The board shall duly notice and hold a meeting of the board within 5 full business days after receipt of the agreement in writing or written ballots. At the meeting, the board shall either certify the written ballots or written agreement to recall a director or directors of the board, in which case such director or directors shall be recalled effective immediately and shall turn over to the board within 5 full business days any and all records and property of the association in their possession, or proceed as described in paragraph (d).

It just occurred to me that the this thread is about the difference between annual meeting and regular board meetings, and not about recalls.

Robert, all I can say to you is that in FL there is a big difference between annual meetings of the membership (which often times have BOD elections attached to it), and regular board meetings of HOAs and Condo Associations. I just leave it at that.

Ken from FL
All owners (FL Statues and Code) at any meeting can voice their opinion about an agenda item that is about to be voted on before it is voted on. Resonable rules can be setup such duration and the President should ask if any owners want to speak before a vote is taken.

Donna is correct regarding how a recall meeting is conducted. I would also add that if the Pres is being recalled it would be prudent of him/her to assign the V.P. or another board member to chair the meeting. If all board members are being recalled, perhaps a member of the assn should be assigned to chair the meeting.

Susanna,

We were not established as a condo association.

At annual meetings, owners have the right to speak to issues of the association. This can usually be controlled by limiting owner participation to a specific section of the agenda, and by limiting the time an individual can speak. 720 says:

"6) RIGHT TO SPEAK.--Members and parcel owners have the right to attend all membership meetings and to speak at any meeting with reference to all items opened for discussion or included on the agenda. Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in the governing documents or any rules adopted by the board or by the membership, a member and a parcel owner have the right to speak for at least 3 minutes on any item, provided that the member or parcel owner submits a written request to speak prior to the meeting. The association may adopt written reasonable rules governing the frequency, duration, and other manner of member and parcel owner statements, which rules must be consistent with this subsection"

I think Ellen's real question is about the owner who promises to make things miserable at the annual meeting. How to keep that person from doing that, or letting the meeting get out of control. There is no single response that we could tell you would work. It would depend on the personality of the person, the personality of the presiding officer, the willingness of the other attendees to let the disruption happen, etc. Ideally, the person would be given a limited amount of time to vent, the presiding officer would respond quietly, rationally, and then move on. However, the problem individual often just keeps right on going, ignoring all efforts to move on, after all, what does he care about Robert's Rules. Here, the board needs a plan and often, an ally in the audience. The ally would rise to be recognized, move to close the discussion the subject, and a positive vote often shuts the person up.

The best I've ever seen this handled is when the presiding officer lets the person vent and then moves on, totally ignoring the person, even if they continue ranting. Just keep the meeting going as if that loud noise isn't there. The board cannot lose their cool or the ranter gets what he wants.

If there is a possibility of physical confrontation, hire an off-duty cop to serve as sergeant-at-arms. But make sure he knows that you just want to keep things peaceful (one association that did this, the cop and the owner got into it and lawsuits mushroomed)

Other ideas?

Joe

I've mentioned this before, but it's worth re-visiting, especially for larger associations with problems - one of the best meetings I've ever seen was a special meeting to recall 4 of 7 board members including the President. The Prez gaveled the meeting to order and then turned the gavel over to a semi-retired local judge, who took the gavel and very quietly said "This is a serious meeting, and we will deal with it seriously, and civilly. If you can't do that, I'll be happy to see you in my courtroom tomorrow morning where we'll discuss it further." Qietest meeting I ever attended.

Joe

Joe, cute story but I'm afraid gavel use is not recommended in FL condos whether small or large. It really infuriates members, most of them retirees and "snow birds" spoiled by the tropical, laid back lifestyle.

Susanna,

Thanks for the info..I'll check it out.

Ellen, the Annual Member's Meeting quite often turns into the "Annual Bash the Board" Meeting. This year we made certain that those who complimented us throughout the year (but only to our faces) showed up and expressed their feelings to all those in attendance. When they announced the winners of the Board election those people also broke out into applause. The people who showed up to complain kept pretty quiet after that. So yes, get your supporters to show up, too.

Ellen,
From your post, should our readers take home the message that the way to insure proper conduct at an annual members meeting, is to plant co-conspirators in the audience, to achieve the Boards pleasure?

I do not condone unruliness at any public or private meeting. Would you consider this kind of action proper if it achieves your objective of silencing a legal member of the organization. It is one thing to have to employ security personnel to maintain decorum and provide protection, and in extreme cases this may be proper. It is quite another to manipulate the process of a meeting. Why doesn't a Board member make the motion if they feel it is proper? It fact it would require two allies, one to motion and one to second, and then it would go to discussion.

IMHO

Robert,

You evidently missed the part of my post where I said we encourage participation of members...

For info only.

I never ever fail to compliment the board. I might complain but your job is tough and you do good work. I pay attention and know that better than most. You are just not perfect. And God, neither am I.

But please don't ask me to come to a Board Meeting with my intent being to applaud the Board because the Board wants me to be there for that purpose.

This goes to the idea that people will behave (or not) depending on what they think they can get away with.

If the hostile homeowners attending the meeting think or believe they have like minds there, they will be more emboldened to behave in a way that might be inappropriate.

If they think or believe they are not of the majority mentality, that the other homeowner attendees are not "on their side," they are more likely to behave themselves.

Even sometimes simply the presence of a uniformed sgt-at-arms is enough to keep them from getting too frisky.

But it's the whole idea of the "crowd" or "mob" mentality.

As long as the board is not restricting comments and allows anyone to comment, then it's not as manipulative as it appears at first blush.

It's simply setting an ambiance, a tone, if you will, with the intent to keep hostility at bay.

Good move Robert. I know Ellen does not need anymore input.

Good post Glen,

I'll bet that Ellen will let us know when she has all of the possible information that she wants or needs. Now, I really like hearing about your Saturday open forums. Great concept and reading about your results, this would fit into Georges post on "Thinking Outside the Box" and apathy, which is the kind of stuff that we are all seeking. How to increase membership attendance at meetings (including renters). Those poor folks never get a chance to air their grievances and they surely must have some as well as the owners.

Glen,

I can attest to the success of those types of meetings.

We are only mandated to hold one membership meeting a year, for the purpose of holding elections and whatever other business may need to be voted on.

The board meetings are not open to the membership, except in cases where specific homeowners request time on the agenda for one reason or another.

A few years ago, after a change in some of the leadership, we decided to hold Open Forums at least quarterly to give people the opportunity to do exactly as you say.

Initially it was to allow them to have a venue to ask some very pointed questions regarding what transpired in the leadership struggle to help address the grapevine/rumor mill phenomenon.

The meetings were a huge success and, as a side benefit, we've had increasingly greater attendance at the annual meeting, we believe, as a result of the open forums.

Our HOA calls them XXXX Dialog (where the XXX is the name of our HOA), and our next one is scheduled at the end of this month, as a matter of fact.

Sometimes all people want to do is be heard.

This allows that to happen in a way that doesn't derail HOA business but yet still gives the members a sense of community.

Offer free donuts!

I know it's silly, but sometimes the idea of getting a snack, or even a free pen, works!

We wanted to hold a more "social" meeting the first summer we started the Member Dialogs, so I went to some local businesses and asked them for donations of either free "stuff" or 2-for-1 coupons for a raffle and drawing at our neighborhood meeting. I was quite surprised at the materials various businesses donated. They loved the idea of "marketing" to the local neighborhood people.

We had a framer donate a free framed poster, a motorcycle shop donated a few T-shirts, Kroger's even donated something, but I can't remember what it was right now.

Some of the restaurants donated some gift cards. A dry cleaner donated a coupon for some free dry cleaning.

We then had drawings throughout the event.

After that, we seemed to have a better chance of getting people to come.

Oh. One time we had a over-sized blow up of the neighborhood map made and put on foam core. We placed it on an easel, and colored it in.

We then had people fill out tags that would stick to the map and put some quotes or welcome information on it.

We bring it to each meeting and everytime someone shows up who hasn't had a chance to fill in their lot yet, we give them the opportunity to do that.

It's almost all filled in right now.

Just some ideas.