💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

BW (Colorado)
Posts: 28
Posted:
We are a small townhome condominium association in Colorado. Historically, our association has been responsible for the maintenance & replacement of the unit's windows, porch, steps (2/unit)and the driveway into the unit's garage from the association's privately owned asphalt drive. The driveway into the individual unit garages is approximately 10 feet. The flooring inside the garage is the owners responsibility.

The BOD is considering ways to cut the association's costs and is looking at turning the responsibility for the windows back to the owners. In addition, they propose to turn the responsibility for the maintenance and replacement of the porch, steps and short driveway back to the owners.

I would appreciate input from townhome (duplex) associations as to their coverage of windows, porches, steps and driveways. Who is responsible for this--association or owner?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BW on 12/20/2008 9:27 AM
We are a small townhome condominium association in Colorado. Historically, our association has been responsible for the maintenance & replacement of the unit's windows, porch, steps (2/unit)and the driveway into the unit's garage from the association's privately owned asphalt drive. The driveway into the individual unit garages is approximately 10 feet. The flooring inside the garage is the owners responsibility.

The BOD is considering ways to cut the association's costs and is looking at turning the responsibility for the windows back to the owners. In addition, they propose to turn the responsibility for the maintenance and replacement of the porch, steps and short driveway back to the owners.

I would appreciate input from townhome (duplex) associations as to their coverage of windows, porches, steps and driveways. Who is responsible for this--association or owner?

BW,

I would say all this should be spelled out in your declaration. If these areas are common areas or limited common areas, it should be outlined in the declaration who is resp. for maint. If the board wants to turn over maint. to the owners that would mean amending the CCRs which, I would think, would take a vote of the members. I would question the board's authority to just make that change on their own.
BW (Colorado)
Posts: 28
Posted:
Thank you Mary for the response. These items are spelled out in the Declaration as the association's responsibility and the members would need to approve all changes; however, I am just trying to research if porches, steps and short driveways such I have described are "usually" the responsiblity of the owners, or the association.

Please note that the association is responsible for the private drive through the association property.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
BW,

Gotcha! Sorry, but I don't live in a condo or townhome so I can't say. I'm sure others more well versed on your question will be commenting.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
BW,
Well I live in a condo and as far as being well versed, that is not my strong suit.

BW, you seem to have it pretty well pegged. The Board is looking for way to cut expenses and one of the most popular is to turn the windows over to the owners. Then, it sorts of goes from there. Yes, the charge can be made and it is not uncommon. I am sure some assoc cover it with covenant changes, some jus t do it until they are questioned about it. It would be impossible for us to pass judgement on a Board judgement call about the drive ways, etc. And that is good because you all are the one effected, you all need to contribute your views, if fact, you are obligated to contribute. I understand it is an automatic to start doing, Can they do this scenerio? Well, find out, but first find out why and discuss the issue from all sides, it don't have to be, they can't or should not do this. If you think this is tough to settle, wait till you run across this when the Board is run by a bunch of dictators. The problem is the same but resolving it just follows a different path. I might suggest you pick one board member that you at least can approach and have a talk.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
BW,

Except for condos I have never heard of a townhome assn being responsible for these repairs. Your docs should provide you with an answer. Just because "it's always been done this way" doesn't mean it has to continue if it conflicts with your docs.
DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
Whether or not the association can turn these responsibilities back to the homeowners, I would really have to question why? I know BW said that the Board wants to cut the associations costs, but I think just looking at the association's bottom line is taking a pretty narrow view of things.

The association is made up of the homeowners, and gets its funds from the homeowners. If the association keeps the responsibility of maintaining these items, they may have to raise dues in order to cover the costs, so homeowners will have to pay more. If the association does turn over the responsibility to the homeowners, then the homeowners will have to cover the costs themselves, and will have to pay more. Either way the homeowners will ultimately have to cover the costs.

But if the association keeps the responsibility for the maintenance, then they would probably be in a better position to negotiate a better price, so overall the homeowners would save money. Plus the work would be more likely to be done in a consistent and timely manner.

IMHO, I think it would be better for all for the association to look at the bigger picture and keep the responsibility for these items.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
The big thing is that if the covenants state it is association responsibility then the only way to change it is with an amendment approved per the covenants. Typically this is 2/3ds of the membership.

The issues that I would see would revolve around uniformity of appearance. From what I gather some places like the same window to be in every unit. They regulate the look of most every detail. And I can say that if you wanted me to take over costs of replacement and repair then I would want the right to change it out to my liking. But at the end of the day, it all comes to the membership. I never ceased to be amazed at what some people will buy into.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DwightT on 12/20/2008 5:26 PM

But if the association keeps the responsibility for the maintenance, then they would probably be in a better position to negotiate a better price, so overall the homeowners would save money. Plus the work would be more likely to be done in a consistent and timely manner.

IMHO, I think it would be better for all for the association to look at the bigger picture and keep the responsibility for these items.

Dwight, I agree with this assessment. The association may well be in a better position to negotiate better prices on things from windows to concrete work, etc., whereas the homeowners would end up having to locate the best price for themselves. For some that might mean still attending to "quality," and making sure they are still within design/ARC specs, while for others, hmmm... not so much. The Quality and "compliance" may begin to suffer once the "responsibility" goes individual.

Plus, even though raising the assessments would probably be required, it is still spread out over ALL the homeowners and divided up. So even those homeowners who will NEED replacements end up with a more cost-effective scenario.

So the association will get its needed funds with the assessment increase, the cost of the materials and labor can be better managed (bid out, negotiated for best price for everyone) AND the materials and such remain in compliance more effectively.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
BW,

The logic of turning the maintenance and replacement of certain items over to the homeowners to save money escapes me.

What is the purpose of having the homeowners take over these items, To reduce costs for the association? OK.

Now, what is the purpose of reducing costs for the association? Is it to reduce fees? Or is it to pay for increased expenses elsewhere so you don't have to raise fees as much or at all?

Let's assume, for arguments sake, that the purpose is to reduce fees. OK. Lets say that it results in a savings to the homeowner of $X per year. Now, the homeowner is going to have to pay privately to to these things. Let's say that over time that amounts to an average of $Y per year for each homeowner. Now, $Y must be equal to or greater than $X because if an individual homeowner can find a way to take care of these things for less money, then the association can find a way to do it for less money too. So, if $Y is equal to or greater than the savings in the fee, $X, there has been no actual savings for the homeowner, and more than likely, the homeowner will end up paying more because, as has already been mentioned, the association has the leverage of quantity buying.

Look at it this way. What will the association fee have to be for each homeowner if the association continues doing what it has been doing? Then, compare that to what the association fee would be if the association turns the maintenance and repair over to the homeowners, PLUS the cost for each homeowner to take care of these things privately. That's the real cost to the homeowner.
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posted:
Hi BW – As others have advised, check your docs/laws. I live in a townhome style condo.

In IL these responsibilities are spelled out in the IL Condo Act, our Declaration, and R & Rs. Our original R & Rs had been written to be more specific, identifying the HOA as responsible for several items considered exclusive use limited common elements (IL law & Declaration allows some discretion to BOD, per my understanding). A few years ago, to save on rising HOA costs, the BOD made a change and identified most of the exclusive use limited common elements as HO responsibility rather than HOA. This did not require a change to our Declaration as the language there allows BOD flexibility to develop policy on this (my understanding from our attorney). Was considered a clarification of the Declaration and R & Rs (cover letter to HOs stated this).

Changes:
HO new responsibility: front stoop/steps/porch, front walkway leading to front stoop, patios, decks, skylights.

Unchanged:
HO has always been responsible for patio/deck doors, windows, garage door.

HOA has always been responsible for asphalt driveways & concrete apron, front door, sidewalks.

This list is not exhaustive and a total list of all elements (common, limited, & exclusive use limited) identifying responsibility and cited to IL Condo Act was prepared by our attorney for review and approval by the BOD, and sent to HOs.

BTW – Dwight (and Michele and Bruce), your reasoning is exactly why we (BOD) originally made decision that HOA would be responsible for patios, decks, driveways, front stoop/porch/steps, front walkways, skylights. These items have been covered in our Reserve Study and reserve fund. A different BOD made the change (“clarification”) shifting responsibility back to the HO. They did this to save on rising HOA fees (at time we were about 12 years old and began seeing an increase in needed maintenance/replacement). Another Reserve Study was done, excluding these items which resulted in less $ being needed in reserve fund.

Of course, one outcome I have observed is that HOs (in general) do not keep these elements maintained, until the BOD brings it to their attention via a reminder or violation letter.

I hope this helps.
Bonnie
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Bonnir,

And that's exactly it. Turning over the maintenance of these items to save costs is an illusion. The homeowner doesn't save any money unless the homeowner elects not to maintain them at all (as in your case) or chooses to perform the labor to maintain them himself or herself, and, to do that requires that the homeowner has the time, knowledge, skill, tools, etc. to do the job properly.

On the other hand, if the homeowner doesn't expect to be around long and expects that the home might be sold before those things need repair or replacement, then the homeowner might be in favor of such a proposal.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Bonnie, I didn't mispell your name - just fat fingers. Sorry.
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posted:
That’s OK, Bruce.

Good point.

Also, the HOs had no input into the decision, but many have since complained!

Bonnie

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here