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SueL7 (California)
Posts: 30
Posted:
I have emailed, called, and sent letters to the board about a common violation from a renter. They will not respond at all....nothing. Don't they have to at least notify me that they received my complaint and or requests?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
SueL,
Of course the Board can ignore you, they just did. If you are asking can they suffer the pangs of hell? I doubt it and they will not go to jail.

But will they know better next time to not ignore you? That's up to you. Sorry, that's the way it is.

First, go to a Board meeting and voice your concern AND ask for resolution. Put it in the form of a motion, get someone to second it, get it put into the minutes. Ask for immediate relief if you are being distrubed. Make sure you submit your request at the meeting in writing and request receipt of the letter.

Then take the next step to get relief from your problem by hiring an attorney.

Now let me add, that time has passed here, you are probably getting upset and angry. Why for goddness sake? Why was not the first thing you did, contact a Board member or manager or P/M personally. I am always dumfounded about this. It is your association, all owner are equal with one vote, all should be willing to challange what they think is wrong. You signed an agreement to do that. I would bet money on it. Maybe your board is screwed up, who knows, but it is your business to know, it really is. You can be assured we understand that around here, and we do exactly like we ask you to do.
WilliamT2 (Texas)
Posts: 8
Posted:
The term ignore suggests ill-will TOWARDS you and may be a bit prejudice BY you.

Without more information about the procedures in your HOA it [BOD] may not be required to respond to you in any way.
Maybe they are preserving your anonymity.

Have you spoken to the renters with your concern?
If you are willing to put it in writing thus identifying yourself as the complaintant, why not address them first?

Going to the next BOD meeting is the best way to be sure you are acknowledged. Review the procedures (if any) so you follow the proper protocol when addressing the BOD and entering this matter into the record.

It is possible the violation you allege is not a violation at all, or it is beyond the "enforceability" of the HOA such as a city or county code violation.

Just trying to be objective...

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SueL7 on 12/19/2008 11:27 PM
I have emailed, called, and sent letters to the board about a common violation from a renter. They will not respond at all....nothing. Don't they have to at least notify me that they received my complaint and or requests?

How long has this been going on? When did you first contact your board?

Perhaps what you perceive as a violation is not a real violation at all. As a board member, I've seen those types of complaints myself. Or, it may be that the board has taken action on your complaint, but they can't (or shouldn't) deal directly with the renter, they have to deal with the owner. It's up to the owner to then deal with the renter. That takes time, and perhaps the owner is ignoring the board. Also, the board cannot (or should not) disclose with you the nature of the communications they may have with another owner.

In short, the board may be doing something (or trying to do something) about the violation but maybe they just haven't told you about it. That's not to say they should ignore you completely. They should have at least acknowledged receiving your complaint and either told you they can't do anything about it and why, or that they will address the matter. That's just common courtesy.
AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305
Posted:
I did not know that an attendee at a Board meeting can make a motion... I thought ONLY Board members can make a motion for something
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Alex,
Sure they can if you mean member of the association. I would hope that all Boards (but know they don't but can be forced into it.) would allow a space of time for members to voice their thoughts. Of curse the President could rule the motion out of order, but then, the motion made should go into the records. Point being to establish a solid paper trail for your concern.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 12/20/2008 6:34 AM
Alex,
Sure they can if you mean member of the association. I would hope that all Boards (but know they don't but can be forced into it.) would allow a space of time for members to voice their thoughts. Of curse the President could rule the motion out of order, but then, the motion made should go into the records. Point being to establish a solid paper trail for your concern.

No. Only members of the assembly that is meeting have the right to make motions at the meeting. That's basic parliamentary law. In other words, if it is a BOARD meeting, only board members can make motions. Comments may be allowed from non-members, but they are not motions and they do not have to be voted on. Whether comments are entered into the minutes or not is a separate matter, but there is no parliamentary requirement to do so. Of course, an association's bylaws or state statutes could always say otherwise and they would have priority.
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
The minutes are far from the magic panacea that so many people think them to be. First, the organization that is meeting controls the contents of the minutes. And to be honest, there are only two times you could have an issue with the minutes:
1) Money is spent without an authorizing motion (and an audit is conducted)
2) Someone sues the organization.

The problem with item 2 is that if you are suing because something is missing from the minutes, the burden is on you. And I agree that a visitor can not make a motion. I would not record such a motion in the minutes. The minutes are a record of actions taken.

It would be appropriate for the secretary to record something to the order of:
"Resident X made a request that the Board take action regarding such and such."

The thing is that at the end of the day, the Board can choose to not take any action. And there are only two things that can be done about it. You can try to vote the bums out, or you can try to sue them to take action. You have a choice between time and effort, or spending money.

I would recommend though that you talk to others and get some support about doing something. Quite honestly, if only one resident was bothered by something then I don't know that I would be inclined to make an issue of it as a Board member. I am here to serve the neighborhood at large, not to do the biding of each (or any) individual.

As a note, nothing precludes you from taking enforcement action apart from the association. If things are bad enough, you can take the owner to court.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Kirk and Bruce,
Ceertainly your replies to my post are somewhat debatable, as posted. However the Board is not the issue. nor is the procedural processess or what authority the Board has.

My post to Alex was how he goes about solving his problem. If the normal steps of trying to resolve issues such as talking to management or board face to face Board presentation, don't work what does he do. I responded to that. Anytime any owner gets to loggerheads with the Board or with the Manager or PM, it is time to start a paper trail, for you and for them. That's been my experience and anything you can do in the process of resolution is abetted by recordation.

In the end I think you both would agree to this.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Robert,

And perhaps the best paper trail is one the homeowner can control, ie., a letter, sent registered return receipt, if necessary.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Bruce,
Yes, that is true. It does comes with the baggage of a understnading by all that you are serious. Whereas, a face to face in a meeting or a act in a meeting that results in a paper trail might be less confrontational, and I am the first to admit that just strikes me that way right now, and I may find I feel different if a different problem presents.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Robert,

The problem I have with your suggestion is this: What rule allows a homeowner the right to make a motion at a board meeting? Where can he or she find it? If the homeowner's complaint doesn't get into the minutes, what rule can the homeowner use to compel the board to put it in the minutes? Where can he/she find it? If the rule is not in the state laws or in the governing documents of the association, where can it be found? Unless the board can be compelled to place the homeowner's complaint into the minutes, the board can choose to ignore the homeowner and there is no paper trail by using that approach.
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
I'm not sure what the laws or statutes are in California pertaining to this, but this past year we had a similar situation.

At a Board Meeting, a member (not a board member), started spouting off about something totally unrelated to our agenda. It was NOT noted in the minutes from that meeting.

At the next Board Meeting I read the unapproved minutes from that prior meeting and when we made a motion to accept, a member spoke up and asked why the comments from that member (at the other meeting) were not included in the meeting minutes. I explained that that person was speaking on a topic not on the agenda; did not ask for that topic to be on the agenda; and was out of order at that meeting.

When I did the minutes from the second meeting I INCLUDED that a member questioned the minutes before being approved; and as a *(asterik) included what I replied to their comment, before approving the minutes.

Anyway I agree---that board MAY be working on the problem; but they should give the courtesy to say they're doing SOMETHING and no one should be ignored.
SusannaM (Florida)
Posts: 366
Posted:
SueL, the OP has no use for your posts or she has forgotten about her question....
You should allow the OP to follow up.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Bruce,
First nothing works all the time and this might not either but:

Most Boards will allow a owners comments time in their meetings. I am not talking every Board in the world. If an owner voices an opinion and the President rules the question out of order, most boards will note the question who asked it and the prsodent ruling. Surely you must see where this is leading and the other fact is that if you voice the question, no matter what happens after that, and keep in mind yyour presence has to be acknowledged and is acknowledged when you are allow to speak, then your work is done. Yoy have established the fact that the board was informed of your concerns.
It things turn sour and I would be trying to establish my position in a conflict, I can use that instance as evidence that I actually did notify the Board. Now if you want to go before the judge and declare that never happened because it wasn't in the minutes, I doubt my post is going to be of any interest to you, which is alright also.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SueL7 on 12/19/2008 11:27 PM
I have emailed, called, and sent letters to the board about a common violation from a renter. They will not respond at all....nothing. Don't they have to at least notify me that they received my complaint and or requests?

I'm not sure what the procedures are for your particular association, but neither our governing documents nor our state law REQUIRE that we acknowledge any communication directed to us from residents.

Having said that, our own personal internal policy is to send a confirmation or acknowledgment of receipt (IF the resident leaves either a contact phone number/address or email address) of any correspondence or communication, including violation notices or reports of alleged violations.

But, as someone above said, we do that as a matter of common courtesy, not because we are compelled to.

SueL7 (California)
Posts: 30
Posted:
I am the OP. Thank you to all the informative responses. To clarify, I did speak to the management and board directly. This incident was about a parking problem. As I said in my original post, the renter left his car in a limited guest parking area for weeks. As a resident (signs are posted everywhere), we can only allowed to park for one hour or we get fined. I had sent both the board and management pictures of the car in violation, etc. They just didn't care. However, he finally moved his car. I don't think the board had anything to do with it. But, I am sending all the info to my attorney and asking him to write the board a letter regarding this matter. Thanks for all your help everyone!

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Michele,
Your conclusion that the Board has no compulsion to answer a question as submitted and any other communication to the Board by an owner, just doesn't ring with a pleasent sound. Because it is not written, therefore this gives the Board or individual Board members some kind of right not to respond is just not what the Board would want to convey. Maybe if this particular question, legitimate, deteriorates to something unpleasent, the Board may decide not to reply. Why try to hammer home some esoteric premise that does not pertain to the subject. And you were not the only board member to do this. Of course the very existence of the Board is to answer to the members. That's a fact, it is evident in nearly everything the board does and every board action. Why else are you doing it? Anything a member presents to the board, within the confines of proper decorum, is considered in some fashion and responded to. You all know that, and it would be a rare case indeed it the board would elect to refuse to comment on a question presented. A no comment is a comment. I am NOT saying the Board has no discretion, they certainly do, and rightfully so, but with discretion comes responsibility and for the Board to decide they are not going to respond because they don't have to is not responsible.
I don't present a critical response here, I am just saying Board members and volunteers of any ilk must have motivation and rewards. In associations that concept is what drives the Board and volunteers, and we receive little if we don't respond because we don't have to. Or maybe I am beating a dead horse.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Robert,

Your motivation is truly noble, and to be respected. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. The are, and probably will always be, boards that do no more than they have to.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Thank you Bruce,
They all have my respect..........and scrutiny. And you are right about the perfect world, but we do live there.

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